Female TdF

alan_a

Apologies if this has already been posted.

http://www.change.org/petitions/aso-ama ... e_petition

To:
Christian Prudhomme, Director of Tour de France
Allow female professional cycling teams to race the Tour de France

For 100 years, the Tour de France has been the pinnacle endurance sports event of the world, watched by and inspiring millions of people. And for 100 years, it has been an exclusively male race (there was a separate Tour Feminin in the 1980s, but it lacked parity, media coverage, and sponsorship). After a century, it is about time women are allowed to race the Tour de France, too. While many women's sports face battles of inequity, road cycling remains one of the worst offenders: fewer race opportunities, no televised coverage, shorter distances, and therefore salary and prize money inequity. The women's road race at the London Olympics was a showcase for how impressive, exciting, and entertaining women's cycling can be. The Tour of Flanders and Flèche Wallonne hold similar top ranked men's and women's races on the same day, with great success. Having a women's pro field at the Tour de France will also create an equal opportunity to debunk the myths of physical "limitations" placed upon female athletes. In the late 1960s people assumed that women couldn't run the marathon. 30 years on we can look back and see how erroneous this was. Hopefully 30 years from now, we will see 2014 as the year that opened people's eyes to true equality in the sport of cycling. If you'd like to see more women's road racing on television and from the roadside, please sign this petition to call for road cycling to take a major step in the right direction. Help us break down the barriers that unjustly keep female athletes from the same opportunities as men.

We respectfully request that a women's professional field is added to the 2014 Tour de France, and we will work with the ASO to show how such parity is smart, just and lucrative for all parties concerned.

Sincerely,

Emma Pooley, GBR Olympian & World Champion Cyclist
Kathryn Bertine, SKN National Champion Cyclist & Filmmaker
Marianne Vos, NED World & Olympic Champion Cyclist
Chrissie Wellington, GBR World Ironman Triathlon Champion

Could it work?

Could they start off the day before the men or even 3 hours before the men?

Would they do the full course of 21 days?

Would they only do 3/4 of each day's route?

Hmmmm, I spy a logistical nightmare. But it would be a great addition.

markhewitt1978

If they are going to do it then they would need to do the full course and full 21 days. Otherwise there is no point.

And yes, perhaps they could start 3 hours before men, or perhaps half an hour after?

alihisgreat

I reckon its just a financial thing - there isn't much money in women's cycling.

markhewitt1978

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

I reckon its just a financial thing - there isn't much money in women's cycling.

If it was part of the TdF it could be. Even if it was just a few minutes feature on the highlights package.

hammerite

I think the logistics could work. But I don't think the stages should be the same distance as the men's stages - from a logistical point of view.

Why's Chrissie Wellington got involved as a principal signatory? Is she signing for a pro team?

markhewitt1978

hammerite wrote:

I think the logistics could work. But I don't think the stages should be the same distance as the men's stages - from a logistical point of view.

Why? From a logistical point of view it would be easier to have the start and finish in the same place.

markhewitt1978

In fact the easiest thing would be to have the female race start at the same time as the male race and if they beat the men, so be it, as the female riders would be part of the GC. But there would also be a GC for female riders - that would be the best, and fairest, way to do it.

inkyfingers

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

I reckon its just a financial thing - there isn't much money in women's cycling.

Exactly. Women's events are failing because nobody is prepared to sponsor it.

I'd love to see a healthy and bright women's sort, but you have to deal with reality. ASO will only do this if it's commercially viable, and i'm not sure it is.

I'm not sure that tacking women's races onto mens races actually works, Fleche and Flanders have women's races on the same day, which is good for fans on the roadside, sure, but it didn't help get them any TV coverage, did it. If anything it makes it more difficult as it gets in the way of the main event.

A women's Tour de France, run at the same time as the mens race would be a sideshow, if they are lucky then broadcasters might do a 5 minute highlights package of it, but is that what women's cycling wants? Plus, all the mens race sponsors would complain that there exposure is being reduced and taken by the women's teams sponsors who have paid 50p to sponsor their teams.

Personally I think that women's cycling needs to try and stop copying the mens sport, after all it's hardly a success story. Let a load of races go to the wall and start again with a more compact series of races that really matter. A women's World Tour if you like, which concentrates sponsorship and exposure into a more marketable, TV friendly package. I appreciate it's not ideal and will make life hard for the smaller races and up and coming teams, but it's the only way forward that I see which has a hope of generating enough interest to sustain the sport.

Fans of women's cycling seem to be very good at complaining, but very poor at coming up with realistic alternatives.

markhewitt1978

In the UK however, the Tour de France is pretty much the only cycling people will watch all year, so that's where it has to happen.

-Same as Wimbledon is the only tennis most people will watch all year.

knedlicky

Alan A wrote:

Apologies if this has already been posted.

http://www.change.org/petitions/aso-ama ... e_petition
Could it work?
Could they start off the day before the men or even 3 hours before the men?
Would they do the full course of 21 days?
Would they only do 3/4 of each day's route?

In the mid/late 80s the Tour Feminin did sometimes precede the men on the same day, the women riding a shortened version of the same stage, but only half to two-thirds the total number of stages.
The day Lemond won the stage when the men came over the Peyresourde, through Luchon and up to the mountain ski resort of Superbagneres, about 3 hours beforehand the women came over the Peyresourde but their finish was at Luchon in the valley (Inga Thompson winning the stage I think).

EPO Delivery Man

It doesnt matter what they come up with, the only way it would get on TV is if the Wiggle girls all rode nude and one of the teams was sponsored by Ann Summers.

It doesnt come round to how long the women can ride, are they capable blah blah...it comes round purely to wether marketing people at big companies want to invest millions of their companies money sponsoring it and they will only do that if its on TV and people are watching it, but the facts are, hardly anybody watches womens road racing. So until that changes nothing will. You might think putting it before the mens race means people watch it, but would you? would you get in, deal with the Mrs, put the kids to bed, shower, eat then sit down and watch over an hours worth of highlights from ITV4 on the womens race and then another hours worth on the mens? im betting most people will simply watch the mens.

Its chicken and the egg.

hammerite

markhewitt1978 wrote:

hammerite wrote:

I think the logistics could work. But I don't think the stages should be the same distance as the men's stages - from a logistical point of view.

Why? From a logistical point of view it would be easier to have the start and finish in the same place.

It would take the Women longer to race the distance. Possibly a reasonable amount longer. Can they keep roads open for so long? Would a host town be able to accommodate a women's race as well as the mens? A lot struggle as it is.

Logistically it would make more sense to start the women's race in the morning before the men's maybe 50km or more down the full stage route. That way another town could host the start for the ladies race and accommodate the riders overnight. Both races would finish at the same place. For mountain top finishes (sometimes dead end roads), starting earlier and a little bit closer to the finish would give the opportunity for the teams vehicles for the ladies race to be off the mountain by the time the men's come through.

Have a look at one day races that are held on the same day as the men's. They usually do fewer circuits, cut the route short somewhere, or start at a different place. The actual requirements to start a race are a lot less than those to finish them - lots of equipment, officials/commentators etc... are needed at a finish line, at the start you just need somewhere for riders to assemble/sign on, they can then practically roll out from anywhere.

keyser__soze

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

It doesnt matter what they come up with, the only way it would get on TV is if the Wiggle girls all rode nude and one of the teams was sponsored by Ann Summers.

Not entirely true. The women have been getting a fair bit of exposure on the ITV4 Tour Series when they have raced on the same day as the blokes and there seemed to be a lot more interest in the women's race at the Nocturne than the men's. The women's road and track races were popular with viewers at the Olympics with lots of posters on here commenting that the women's Oly RR was much more interesting than the men's. Companies such as Wiggle are realising this interest and sponsoring teams. There're some nonsensical UCI rules limiting the length of women's road races (alleged to be related to 'comfort breaks') which would prevent them doing entire stages but I'd like to see them be given at least the opportunity to make a go of it and do the last 2/3s or 3/4s of each stage, even if only for two of the three weeks.

afx237vi

If they held the women's world cup at the same time as the men's world cup, how many people would watch?

alan_a

afx237vi wrote:

If they held the women's world cup at the same time as the men's world cup, how many people would watch?

Cycling or football?

alan_a

hammerite wrote:

I think the logistics could work. But I don't think the stages should be the same distance as the men's stages - from a logistical point of view.

Why's Chrissie Wellington got involved as a principal signatory? Is she signing for a pro team?

She's taken an extended break from triathlon, primarily because she's done all that needs to be done and is lacking the drive. She's an awesome cyclist and world wide probably the most famous female who competitively rides a bike for sport. I would not be surprised if she fancied a shot riding a female TdF.

afx237vi

Alan A wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

If they held the women's world cup at the same time as the men's world cup, how many people would watch?

Cycling or football?

Football.

markhewitt1978

A lot more than currently watch the mens game. You just have to witness sports where the womens competition is held at the same time such as the olympics or tennis grand slams. You get many more people watching the womens competition because it's held at the same time.

disgruntledgoat

I always find it really odd that I just don't enjoy watching Womens road racing, but Women's cross I can watch and enjoy as much as the men.

mididoctors

the week before the tour between the nationals and tour proper

little ring needed

Alan A wrote:

hammerite wrote:

I think the logistics could work. But I don't think the stages should be the same distance as the men's stages - from a logistical point of view.

Why's Chrissie Wellington got involved as a principal signatory? Is she signing for a pro team?

She's taken an extended break from triathlon, primarily because she's done all that needs to be done and is lacking the drive. She's an awesome cyclist and world wide probably the most famous female who competitively rides a bike for sport. I would not be surprised if she fancied a shot riding a female TdF.

Read her autobiography that came out late 2012. Tell me what type of person puts stuff in it about Lance. It says a great deal about Wellington. Emma Pooley has seriously diluted her case by joining forces with Wellington.

A duff move.

Le Commentateur

The UCI limits the distance, so it would be the last 130(ish) of a stage. Not necessarily a bad thing as they could then have the same sign on/start time as the men's race and still be comfortably ahead by the end.

The real problem is the publicity caravan, the numerous team buses, team cars and VIPs in TdF Skodas that are trunding along the race route for hours before the men's race.

alan_a

little ring needed wrote:

Alan A wrote:

hammerite wrote:

I think the logistics could work. But I don't think the stages should be the same distance as the men's stages - from a logistical point of view.

Why's Chrissie Wellington got involved as a principal signatory? Is she signing for a pro team?

She's taken an extended break from triathlon, primarily because she's done all that needs to be done and is lacking the drive. She's an awesome cyclist and world wide probably the most famous female who competitively rides a bike for sport. I would not be surprised if she fancied a shot riding a female TdF.

Read her autobiography that came out late 2012. Tell me what type of person puts stuff in it about Lance. It says a great deal about Wellington. Emma Pooley has seriously diluted her case by joining forces with Wellington.

A duff move.

http://triathlonmagazine.ca/2013/03/new ... -her-book/

Chrissie Wellington, the 13-time undefeated ironman distance Champion, and four-time Ironman World Champion (2011, 2009, 2008, 2007), stated in the UK’s The Sun, that she regrets including Lance Armstrong’s foreword in her book A Life Without Limits.

Wellington is encouraging book owners to rip out Lance’s foreword or to cross it out with a permanent marker.

“When Federal prosecutors dropped their investigation in February 2012, I finally agreed to include his foreword. This decision was a mistake, and one that I deeply regret. If I could turn the clock back I would. But I can’t,” said Wellington in The Sun article. ”But please, if you have North American edition rip out the foreword, and use a permanent marker to erase the quote on the back of the British version.”

Wellington also wants Armstrong to stay away from the sport of triathlon.

“I believe that Lance’s participation in triathlon would sully the reputation of our sport and undermine its fragile credibility.”

Read the full article at: Armstrong told to forget comeback.

little ring needed

Alan,
Thanks for posting that and backing me up. It has made my day. The Federal Prosecutors drop the case so Lance must be clean, I can go back to having him as the number 1 choice for my foreword, just like I always wanted.

Have you actually read the book ?

Whilst I had little interest in ironman before, I now have zero interest apart from seeing when they get popped.

gpreeves

markhewitt1978 wrote:

In fact the easiest thing would be to have the female race start at the same time as the male race and if they beat the men, so be it, as the female riders would be part of the GC. But there would also be a GC for female riders - that would be the best, and fairest, way to do it.

Assuming the women managed to stay in the peloton, can you imagine the number of crashes that would occur in the final kilometres? The roads are currently crowded enough, adding another 100-200 riders is only going to cause problems. The only safe way of including a concurrent female race would be to cut the number of male competitors - neither the UCI nor the ASO are likely to agree to that.

hammerite

Alan A wrote:

hammerite wrote:

I think the logistics could work. But I don't think the stages should be the same distance as the men's stages - from a logistical point of view.

Why's Chrissie Wellington got involved as a principal signatory? Is she signing for a pro team?

She's taken an extended break from triathlon, primarily because she's done all that needs to be done and is lacking the drive. She's an awesome cyclist and world wide probably the most famous female who competitively rides a bike for sport. I would not be surprised if she fancied a shot riding a female TdF.

I know all about Wellington in triathlon and recognise she's a very good cyclist who may want to race on the road and/or a TDF. Still don't get why she's signed this though, she holds little no weight with UCI (WTC or ITU different story).

Could understand if it was someone like Giorgia Bronzini, Kirsten Wild or Judith Arndt (even though she's retired).

alan_a

little ring needed wrote:

Alan,
Thanks for posting that and backing me up. It has made my day. The Federal Prosecutors drop the case so Lance must be clean, I can go back to having him as the number 1 choice for my foreword, just like I always wanted.

Have you actually read the book ?

Whilst I had little interest in ironman before, I now have zero interest apart from seeing when they get popped.

No I have not read the book, not a big fan of sport autobiogs.

I agree that there is a big dark questionable cloud hanging over ironman, however I doubt that Chrissie is one of them.

@Hammerite - whilst I agree with your choice of other female cyclists haing more influence with the UCI their names hold zero clout with the public. The letter was designed to get the public to sign a petition. Chrissie is 1000 x more high profile than the three ladies you mentioned.

little ring needed

Just who you need to come to the rescue - she is living up to my stereotype of her

Chrissie Wellington ‏@chrissiesmiles 13 Jul
6 years ago i said i could never do an ironman. how wrong i was. you can so so much more than you think you can!

Somebody needs to tell this sports sister there used to be a two week long women's Tour. I don't think anyone is saying females lack the ability to complete it.

Bo Duke

Keyser__Soze wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

It doesnt matter what they come up with, the only way it would get on TV is if the Wiggle girls all rode nude and one of the teams was sponsored by Ann Summers.

Not entirely true. The women have been getting a fair bit of exposure on the ITV4 Tour Series when they have raced on the same day as the blokes and there seemed to be a lot more interest in the women's race at the Nocturne than the men's. The women's road and track races were popular with viewers at the Olympics with lots of posters on here commenting that the women's Oly RR was much more interesting than the men's. Companies such as Wiggle are realising this interest and sponsoring teams. There're some nonsensical UCI rules limiting the length of women's road races (alleged to be related to 'comfort breaks') which would prevent them doing entire stages but I'd like to see them be given at least the opportunity to make a go of it and do the last 2/3s or 3/4s of each stage, even if only for two of the three weeks.

Chrissie Wellington is the signatory that made me think it could work, she's as tough as nails and extremely singlehanded. I see little alternative to the comfort break issue - either there in for the full distance or they don't take part.

One solution would be a van amongst the team cars with a toilet, when they want to go, they drop back and the van comes forward - end of problem.

Let them in. Ventoux welcomes all but don't change the routes to accommodate them, they want to come into the mens' world, not visa versa..

Cumulonimbus

Like it or not, the only way women's sport achieves something close to equality is when it is played at the same time as men's sport, ie athletics, tennis, the Olympics. True or false? I think people on here have mentioned having the women's race a stage ahead to try and attract extra interest in terms of seeing what the route looks like.

I wonder how many pro women get paid more per day than the podium girls at the tour de france?

thiscocks

Would they have podium guys?

Would be interesting if they had a womens race somehow on the same days as the mens. Would be good watching highlights of both at the end of the day. Could maybe do a shorter route starting at the same place with a different finish place making it shorter. Agree, they should do 3 weeks also.