Any Schleck's Time Trialling
It's been known for - what? 4/5 years at least that he can't TT, but how does he keep his position as team leader when he obviously won't even try to rectify it? 108th or whatever he finished on is disgraceful for a rider as highly rated as he supposedly is.
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Its good enough to give him a shot at a mountain stage win - I think that may have been the plan, anyway.0
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Hoooray the Yearly Andy Schleck just needs to learn to TT Thread! I did nt think we'd get one this year!
Seriously though your really on to something here. E-mail Leopard Trek and tell them that they need to work on Schleck's TTing, I bet it's never ever crossed their mind! Like EVER!!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
He was a junior TT champion once upon a time.0
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Deliberately worse this year to make it more likely he'll be allowed await on a climb to look for stage win.0
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For all of Luxembourg or just his street?LeicesterLad wrote:He was a junior TT champion once upon a time.0 -
dougzz wrote:
For all of Luxembourg or just his street?LeicesterLad wrote:He was a junior TT champion once upon a time.
They are one and the same.
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ddraver wrote:Hoooray the Yearly Andy Schleck just needs to learn to TT Thread! I did nt think we'd get one this year!
Seriously though your really on to something here. E-mail Leopard Trek and tell them that they need to work on Schleck's TTing, I bet it's never ever crossed their mind! Like EVER!!
It's a bit like trying to tell my dog to stop sh1tting on the lawn...0 -
ddraver wrote:Except your dog probably has nt done eveything it possibly can to avoid ******** on the lawn* and is just not very good at holding on...
*I have never met YP's dog and cannot confirm or deny this allegation
pretty much like Schleck on a TT bike..."Domino" sends his regards
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ddraver wrote:Hoooray the Yearly Andy Schleck just needs to learn to TT Thread! I did nt think we'd get one this year!
Seriously though your really on to something here. E-mail Leopard Trek and tell them that they need to work on Schleck's TTing, I bet it's never ever crossed their mind! Like EVER!!
I'm well aware of the fact that leopard trek know. But if an employee of yours was consistently shit at an aspect of their job and effectively refused to do anything to improve, would you be happy?0 -
Show me one tiny thread of evidence that Andrew Schleck has REFUSED to work on his TT and I ll happily change my sig to say that "PhilW is the king of BR and knows everything there is to know about TTing"
His TT is as good as it can be, he's just not a good TTer when compared to the very best in the world.
Seriously...every year!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:Show me one tiny thread of evidence that Andrew Schleck has REFUSED to work on his TT and I ll happily change my sig to say that "PhilW is the king of BR and knows everything there is to know about TTing"
His TT is as good as it can be, he's just not a good TTer when compared to the very best in the world.
Seriously...every year!
No problems pal, that's your opinion, I would personally say that there's no improvement. This suggests to me a lack of effort, given improvements in aero kit, training methodology etc. And don't bother changing your sig-I'm happy to admit I don't know everything there is to know about TTing 0 -
ddraver wrote:Well while youre e-mailing Trek, ask them why Fabian Cancellara has "refused" to become a better climber. In fact forward that on to OPQS for Tony Martin and Cav while you re there...
Don't you remember when Cav tried to improve his climbing for the Olympics?0 -
He is just a pure climber. Simples.0
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ddraver wrote:Show me one tiny thread of evidence that Andrew Schleck has REFUSED to work on his TT and I ll happily change my sig to say that "PhilW is the king of BR and knows everything there is to know about TTing"
Happy to oblige!
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi? ... y;#3815779
Mat Steinmetz is a coach and bike fitter who mostly works in the triathlon world.
I've tried working with him a bit, but it doesn't look like much has stuck. I think there are too many cooks in the kitchen on this one and they don't know who to listen to. They've worked on the fit, worked in the Velodrome, worked in the tunnel...but, he doesn't give anything a chance. He consistently reverts back to the Velodrome testing done with SRM. In my opinion, AS doesn't have the patience to try and improve his TTing...just keeps doing the same thing hoping for a different result. The position is so adaptable, but doesn't give it the time. His saddle wasn't as far forward as it could go...he wasn't at UCI extension limits, his arms were really wide (hard to know without wind tunnel data if this is good or bad, but usually, tall skinny dudes are most aero with narrow elbows). It will take someone spending a lot of time with Andy to change this...Not one wind tunnel trip or a bike fit, but someone who will be there daily for a few weeks that he trusts and will give him the confidence to try something different and be there to make modifications along the way.0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:ddraver wrote:Well while youre e-mailing Trek, ask them why Fabian Cancellara has "refused" to become a better climber. In fact forward that on to OPQS for Tony Martin and Cav while you re there...
Don't you remember when Cav tried to improve his climbing for the Olympics?
Who says he has not improved? He will never be a climber, he is a specialist sprinter, probably the best of his generation, so he was never going to be great when the road got vertical. I would say his climbing has improved, but from a very low base.
As for Schleck's TTs? They are a joke. Anyone who is a team leader, can climb like he can, and can roll for 250 to 300k is plainly just relying on his poor reputation in TTs to use them as recovery rides. If you insist, I will email Trek and let them know. I will also let them know they should sign you up as there TT coach as you clearly do know everything there is to know about the subject.
I dont know why people who post threads get so much bile from some on here, merely because they have discussed an issue in the past. If you are bored with a subject why bother posting????0 -
r0bh wrote:ddraver wrote:Show me one tiny thread of evidence that Andrew Schleck has REFUSED to work on his TT and I ll happily change my sig to say that "PhilW is the king of BR and knows everything there is to know about TTing"
Happy to oblige!
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi? ... y;#3815779
Mat Steinmetz is a coach and bike fitter who mostly works in the triathlon world.
I've tried working with him a bit, but it doesn't look like much has stuck. I think there are too many cooks in the kitchen on this one and they don't know who to listen to. They've worked on the fit, worked in the Velodrome, worked in the tunnel...but, he doesn't give anything a chance. He consistently reverts back to the Velodrome testing done with SRM. In my opinion, AS doesn't have the patience to try and improve his TTing...just keeps doing the same thing hoping for a different result. The position is so adaptable, but doesn't give it the time. His saddle wasn't as far forward as it could go...he wasn't at UCI extension limits, his arms were really wide (hard to know without wind tunnel data if this is good or bad, but usually, tall skinny dudes are most aero with narrow elbows). It will take someone spending a lot of time with Andy to change this...Not one wind tunnel trip or a bike fit, but someone who will be there daily for a few weeks that he trusts and will give him the confidence to try something different and be there to make modifications along the way.
Haha cheers for finding that.....ddraver I hope you'll stand by your word ;-)0 -
R0bh found that!
Interesting stuff though, although you would usually get the response that he can't put out full power in a better position and so overall his speed over the ground is lower. Hence the velodrome test stuff...
If you look at it another way it's a triumph that a rider so horribly unsuited for TTing can be only 4 mins of the very best time trialler in the world
Kind of highlights the fallacy that "every team trains as well as Sky" too We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Just watched the recording and it was painful to watch.. Then again, he's never been close to good in TTs, so it's only normal he's even worse now that his form is off..0
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RichN95 wrote:The bit where he says "usually the tall skinny dudes are most aero with narrow elbows" is interesting with current internet wisdom wondering how tall skinny guys can time trial.
Wind resistance is key. Skinny guy = narrow frontal area in the wind.. Think of little Cav against the big muscular sprinters, when they come off his wheel its difficult to come past as he is so aero. Makes up for his lack of watts.
Oh, and hard work and attention to detail.
Also achieving the optimum position is often offset by less power output, but, as the man said, If you stick with it and work on it most of the power can be got back, and being more aero you go faster.
Ullrich was a good TTer but could have been much better. TMobile could not drag him into a wind tunnel to make the best of his position.0 -
Don't worry, I know the basics. I've got an engineering degree. I was just noting that an expert in the field was saying the opposite of certain areas of the internet who think that thin riders shouldn't be able to TT.mike6 wrote:RichN95 wrote:The bit where he says "usually the tall skinny dudes are most aero with narrow elbows" is interesting with current internet wisdom wondering how tall skinny guys can time trial.
Wind resistance is key. Skinny guy = narrow frontal area in the wind.. Think of little Cav against the big muscular sprinters, when they come off his wheel its difficult to come past as he is so aero. Makes up for his lack of watts.
Oh, and hard work and attention to detail.
Also achieving the optimum position is often offset by less power output, but, as the man said, If you stick with it and work on it most of the power can be got back, and being more aero you go faster.
Ullrich was a good TTer but could have been much better. TMobile could not drag him into a wind tunnel to make the best of his position.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Why people are discussing why Andy hasn't been improving his TTing? Come on be fair on the lad over the past 12 months he has been focussing on staying upright on his bike, finishing stages/races, climbing and descending all without the help of his brother, and lets be honest he is hardly excelling in these important disciplines.
Come on PhilW cut the guy some slack he has enough plates spinning.0 -
mike6 wrote:Ullrich was a good TTer but could have been much better. TMobile could not drag him into a wind tunnel to make the best of his position.
No point - you'd have to do it in the off-season, and modelling airflow over a spherical object is already pretty well understood.0 -
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I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's simply saying that if you are tall and skinny the optimum TT position is usually with your elbows narrow.RichN95 wrote:
Don't worry, I know the basics. I've got an engineering degree. I was just noting that an expert in the field was saying the opposite of certain areas of the internet who think that thin riders shouldn't be able to TT.mike6 wrote:RichN95 wrote:The bit where he says "usually the tall skinny dudes are most aero with narrow elbows" is interesting with current internet wisdom wondering how tall skinny guys can time trial.
Wind resistance is key. Skinny guy = narrow frontal area in the wind.. Think of little Cav against the big muscular sprinters, when they come off his wheel its difficult to come past as he is so aero. Makes up for his lack of watts.
Oh, and hard work and attention to detail.
Also achieving the optimum position is often offset by less power output, but, as the man said, If you stick with it and work on it most of the power can be got back, and being more aero you go faster.
Ullrich was a good TTer but could have been much better. TMobile could not drag him into a wind tunnel to make the best of his position.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Don't worry, I know the basics. I've got an engineering degree. I was just noting that an expert in the field was saying the opposite of certain areas of the internet who think that thin riders shouldn't be able to TT.mike6 wrote:RichN95 wrote:The bit where he says "usually the tall skinny dudes are most aero with narrow elbows" is interesting with current internet wisdom wondering how tall skinny guys can time trial.
Wind resistance is key. Skinny guy = narrow frontal area in the wind.. Think of little Cav against the big muscular sprinters, when they come off his wheel its difficult to come past as he is so aero. Makes up for his lack of watts.
Oh, and hard work and attention to detail.
Also achieving the optimum position is often offset by less power output, but, as the man said, If you stick with it and work on it most of the power can be got back, and being more aero you go faster.
Ullrich was a good TTer but could have been much better. TMobile could not drag him into a wind tunnel to make the best of his position.
Well, they are probably experts in the theory, not the practical. Also, as big Ted said, there are no figures to measure the will of a cyclist.
Team GB worked with there track cyclists to use narrower width bars in the Olympics as even that small change made a measurable difference.0
