Power Meter Advice
Dave_P1
Posts: 565
I'm in two minds at the moment about buying a power meter and I'm sure some of you guys 'n' girls on this forum train to power so I'm after some advice. There seems to be a few different manufacturers making them but is one particularly any better than the other, e.g hub or cranks, rotor or SRM?
I'm interested to know what you guys run and why you chose that over another model.
Cheers,
Dave
I'm interested to know what you guys run and why you chose that over another model.
Cheers,
Dave
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Are you serious about racing or TTing? If not then save your money.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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I'm not serious about racing or TTing but I take my cycling seriously and I have one. Used properly it should make your training more effective, it will take the guesswork out of knowing whether you are improving or not and has the potential to make you faster than buying a fancy set of wheels will.
I went for a crank based system as I want to be able to swap wheels. I use a Power2Max as its much better value than the SRM or Quark units. http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/power2max-power-meter-in-depth-review.html . Maybe before you buy one have a read of this and see if its the kind of thing you want to get into
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In that case check out the Power2Max. It's what I use and I can't fault it, especially for the price. Oh and the book above is a must read.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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SRM are probably the best, but as a result they are the most expensive. I have both a powertap and a Quarq Riken, and both have been very good. I prefer the Quarq though as it does mean a better choice of wheels when racing, and is very easily swapped between bikes within a couple of minutes.
The Quarq is good that you can happily change the battery yourself, unlike the SRM, and that the battery in the new Riken and Elsa are CR2032 batteries so easy to get from a supermarket, the older Quarqs used CR2450 batteries and you can't buy these as easily in the shops. The book is OK, nothing special really, though it can be helpful, another one I found better for the new user to power is Joe Friels Powermeter handbook.
You can train very successfully without a powermeter though so don't feel you NEED to have a powermeter to train very well. A powermeter is a lot more accurate in performance measurement than HR however, and I wouldn't go back to using just HR now.
I choose a powertap first based on cost at the time (nothing came close at the time) and used it for training and racing for 2 years, before I got a Quarq. I went for the Quarq as I wanted a crank based powermeter, and I hadn't really heard particularly good things at the time with the Power2Max, though they have improved with the latest versions. I couldn't afford the SRM so this was a no go from the start, and I couldn't seem to find any decent ANT+ versions secondhand.0 -
The first version had drift issues especially with temperature changes. Since the software revision which sorted the problem, P2M has gotten rave reviews pretty much equaling SRM on DCRainmaker's blog.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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I think the Power2Max temperature compensation fix was a hardware upgrade.
The availability of an upgrade, and the low cost of it, shows admirable support for their users. IMO.
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You may be correct. I know that the Stages and Rotor revisions were both software only.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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SRM_ Gold standard in power meters
most expensive, you have to sent it away to get battery changed, you do get a lot of hours riding time thou.
most used within the pro peloton, i would have one if i could afford it,
Quarq- Cheaper than SRM, customers service is spot it either via USA Or UK (uk is cyclepower meters) they are super
turn around is around a week or less, can calibrate it your self via iphone app and weights. change battery your self, some issue with some units with water, ie the MTB ones
Power2Max not herd much bad about them apart from drift issues as talked about above but these seems to have been resolved, similar price bracket to Quarq
Powertap- cheapest option, bearings are poor in them, can change your self if your careful if not your will damage torq tube and this is £425 a standard rate from, but very reliable thou, i have had one for over a year now, main downfall is the weight unless you get a G3 hub but that's getting close to the price range of a Quarq and the fact you can't put your race wheels in unless there built up into them or you don't race with power.
my preference would go like this.
SRM
Quarq
Power2Max
Powertap
Depends how much you want to spend, and if you want to race with it, i would go for a crank based option due to the flexibility of wheels, that's why i have one on my MTBI do science, sometimes.0 -
The Power2Max has no problems now, the Bikeradar review is way out of date.
I chose it because I got sick of being tied to particular wheels (Powertap) and the bearing issue. The Rotor 3D+ option works with most BB standards but there are other options depending on your budget. It's priced reasonably (comparatively) and is accurate and reliable.
I almost completely disagree with the above (being an advanced tool for experienced athletes). Training on feel is just plain inaccurate, one look at the numbers when you have a meter will tell you that. 99% of cyclists in the past didn't have the option. It's just progress.
On a Turbo I find it even more useful since you can have perfect control (no terrain) but a turbo is harder to stay on target (which I find is where perceived exertion won't work as you get hot and tired)
It is a means to and end though and that is often overlooked.
Having said that, a PM does make cycling more fun IMO and is also useful if you are time constrained as you can make the most of what time you have. You are also not using metrics like time/distance and speed to measure your progress which mean nothing on their own since they don't account for other variables like wind, drafting, position etc.0 -
Thanks guys for all of the advice as it gives me something to think about.
Just curious, what makes the SRM power meter so much better than the rest?0 -
Training on feel you know exactly how hard you're pushing and how hard your body is working.
I'd argue the opposite, that feel is unreliable. I've come back from a training sessions with my sensations telling me I hadn't been going well only to find when I looked at the power data my actual performance was the best for that particular session so far that year. I've also had the opposite happen.0 -
It's not really a reason to buy a PM, but you sure notice how most folk ease up as they crest a hill instead of maintaining the effort.More problems but still living....0
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Dave_P1 wrote:Thanks guys for all of the advice as it gives me something to think about.
Just curious, what makes the SRM power meter so much better than the rest?
I believe they came up with the idea in 1986, so they have been the first to develop the concept,
I do science, sometimes.0 -
This is what Jim Meyer says about Quarq for recreational riders "Even if you are only riding for fun, a power meter can add some objective data to what you've been doing. It's another storyline, one that kind of adds texture to the riding, you can have a a day where you think, 'uh, I didn't feel good...." but maybe your power was actually pretty good. It can almost be a witness or a diary. It's not just about data from a day or a climb, you can go back and look at a month or a season."
he is Quarq's technology director, quote from "Ride" magazine
he would say that I guess
DC Rainmaker has very good reviews on Quarq, Power2max and others
I would want customer service very high on my list when purchasing a power meter.0 -
While waiting for your book to arrive some good links here
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/resources.aspx
IMO power is just a small part of the puzzle. They are not that much use without a decent yearly training plan and balanced with other metrics like feel and heart rate. If you get one or not I recommend Joe Friel's training bible, very good for creating training plans (see periodisation). Though still good, it's more helpful that the Coggan book IMO. Most of the stuff you need to know about the jargon / reviewing files, can be found on trainingpeaks.
My experience of the latest Power2MAx was bad. Terrible drift and yes latest firmware and hardware. Happy for everyone who's got one working well but just sharing my experience. I replaced it with a Quarq. Customer service is fantastic. I did have a problem but a replacement was sent from the U.S. within a handful of days. Power2max service seemed slow in comparison. The quarq seems very stable as far as the numbers so all good thus far.0 -
madasahattersley wrote:Power training can be incredibly useful and it is the future, but there are WAY to many people out there that buy power meters with too little understanding of training and how to listen to your own body.
The power meter is a VERY ADVANCED tool which (IMO) should ONLY be used by EXPERIENCED athletes who want to make their training a bit more SCIENTIFIC.
Bear in mind though that 99% of the great cyclists in history got quick without using power. Being able to train without power is important. Not being dependant on it is important. Not reading too much into the numbers is important.
A common argument about using power is that it takes the guesswork out of training. I'd argue the opposite. Training on feel you know exactly how hard you're pushing and how hard your body is working. Training zones are usually based on FTP which could be miscalculated or wrong. You may spend months training in the wrong zone without knowing. If you have an understanding about your own body and your own training zones then there is no guesswork.
Me personally I use power for things like testing, TSS etc, but I NEVER do intervals efforts aiming for a particular power target, and NEVER use it on an indoor trainer (the lower power figures will crush your soul).
Just my tupenny bit.
Spot on mate. You must establish your FTP correctly. Few do.0 -
Proven reliability, accuracy and longevity, demonstrated by over 25 years of supplying power meters commercially. Not reliant on 3rd party head units and hence not subject to 3rd party problems. The largest range of power meter solutions. Superior performance in some specialised disciplines.Dave_P1 wrote:Just curious, what makes the SRM power meter so much better than the rest?
Aside from what frame(s) you need it to work with, and initial budget, most of the other issues get down to the purpose for which you intend to use the meter. Managing real time effort level, workloads and tracking fitness changes are the least demanding requirements of a power meter.
On a cost per year of lifetime basis, my SRMs have been the cheapest power meters I've used. One of them is a 10 year old SRM that works perfectly and is still serviceable by SRM.
Battery life in newest models is now out to 3-5 years.
I can't comment on the UK prices, but here some SRMs models can be bought new for ~$A2k (approx 1220 UK pounds).0 -
Pithy Power Proverb: Power calibrates perceived exertion. Perceived exertion moderates power.madasahattersley wrote:Power training can be incredibly useful and it is the future, but there are WAY to many people out there that buy power meters with too little understanding of training and how to listen to your own body
What's wrong with anyone who wants to improve, though enjoying the use of training aids?madasahattersley wrote:The power meter is a VERY ADVANCED tool which (IMO) should ONLY be used by EXPERIENCED athletes who want to make their training a bit more SCIENTIFIC.
That's not to say it's necessary to improve (up to a point), or that they could use their money on other things, but saying they should only be used by experienced athletes makes no sense. They are used, for example, to help people in rehab.
Well knowing how to train and race with and without power is a good thing, but when you tune those pacing and intensity dials with a power meter for a few seasons, you become more effective at managing yourself without power, and indeed run sessions with the display hidden specifically for that purpose.madasahattersley wrote:Not being dependant on it is important. Not reading too much into the numbers is important.
Just because someone has a power meter doesn't automatically suggest they will misunderstand or misuse the data.
My experience with many clients, at all levels of experience and ability suggests this is not typically the case once we examine their real training habits with power meter data.madasahattersley wrote:A common argument about using power is that it takes the guesswork out of training. I'd argue the opposite. Training on feel you know exactly how hard you're pushing and how hard your body is working.
Training levels can be based on various fitness indicators. as well as FTP.madasahattersley wrote:Training zones are usually based on FTP which could be miscalculated or wrong. You may spend months training in the wrong zone without knowing. If you have an understanding about your own body and your own training zones then there is no guesswork..
But an argument based on the possible ignorance of the user is a bit lame. You are suggesting that as soon as the power meter arrives, their pre-existing perceived sense of exertion goes out the window.
Shame about not using it on the trainer, it's a great tool to understand if changes to your trainer set up can help you reduce the gap to outdoor power and make it a more effective training aid for you.madasahattersley wrote:Me personally I use power for things like testing, TSS etc, but I NEVER do intervals efforts aiming for a particular power target, and NEVER use it on an indoor trainer (the lower power figures will crush your soul).
Power meters are not for everyone, and the choice of whether to spend your money on one is a function of many things.
What's the right power meter for any individual depends on various things, and the demands and uses you expect from it, as well as budget, equipment compatibility considerations, type of riding/racing you do, crank length preferences, personal preferences, expected length of service life, resale value, location of backup and warranty support etc.
You need to weigh up all those factors when making a choice. No-one can know what your priorities/preferences/specific needs are. These are the sorts of questions I run through with people when helping them choose.0 -
Thanks Alex for answering my question.
Not for you to answer in particular, but anyone, but why would your power be any different indoors compared to outside on the road? Just say, for argument sake that you wanted to ride at 150 watts for 10 minutes on the trainer and then outside, would the effort not be the same? I know you have the weather to contend with, but if you had a tail wind on said effort then that surley means you would be travelling faster than say into a head wind.0 -
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/01/ ... ining.htmlDave_P1 wrote:Thanks Alex for answering my question.
Not for you to answer in particular, but anyone, but why would your power be any different indoors compared to outside on the road? Just say, for argument sake that you wanted to ride at 150 watts for 10 minutes on the trainer and then outside, would the effort not be the same? I know you have the weather to contend with, but if you had a tail wind on said effort then that surley means you would be travelling faster than say into a head wind.0 -
All I wish to do is correct misconceptions, not suggest everyone needs to use a power meter. In fact I specifically said they don't.madasahattersley wrote:Alex, from what I understand you make a living from power based coaching, which is fine you're just doing your job thoroughly. Of course you will defend using power, and I'm definitely not attacking it.
That famous power book also said that interval sessions should be based on what you can actually do and to adjust targets accordingly and to use %'s of FTP a starting guide only. Perhaps they didn't really read it.madasahattersley wrote:However when a friend of mine who estimated his FTP to be XXX watts and did some efforts at YYY watts and found that he couldn't hold the wattage for 5 efforts (as a famous power training book told him to do) despite having no real knowledge of how to actually train properly, he got put off riding for ages. Ruined his season.
Thankfully he has now sold his PM and is back to just riding his bike.
If one failed attempt to complete a handful of intervals ruined a season for someone, then the power meter isn't the problem. They have much bigger problems or are simply in the wrong sport.
If it's not helping you improve, that's not the meter's fault but your own. It's not a bolt on motor, nor a psychologist. But then I suppose that's your pointmadasahattersley wrote:I still stand by what I said (or meant) - that a PM is useless in the wrong hands and unless you REALLY understand what the numbers mean or have a coach to do all the legwork for you it's a useless investment. I definitely don't enjoy riding more since getting my PM and I'm sure it's not made me any quicker, but hey each to their own.
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Years back before power I used to do a 50 mile training ride which although mostly flat was twisty so you often got a cross wind which slowed you down as much going out as coming back and you never seemed to get the wind helping you.
My plan was to keep the average speed up over 20mph no matter how bad the conditions. On good days I would aim to ride it at a more respectable pace. In the end I became so frustrated and disillusioned because I was unable to hold the average speeds I was aiming at. In the end I removed the computer because I was unable to ignore the damn thing even though I knew that speed was not a real measure of my effort. Even leaving it on the bike taped over and only looking at it after the ride would annoy me because I was always aware I was measuring my performance.
Once the computer was removed I found myself always checking my watch and counting rpm to work out speed so I was riding 50 miles doing nothing but count pedal strokes and do a load of mental arithmetic which was even more depressing. In the end I had to discard the watch so I had no means of checking my performance whilst riding. A very zen minimalist approach but one which enables me to enjoy my cycling.
I do use power but only for very specific sessions. I tried riding with out looking at the watts and just recording data but because I knew the power meter was there I was unable to ignore it and it spoilt my enjoyment.
I found the same with heart rate, I was unable to ride without constantly checking it and would get annoyed if was not able to keep it in the planned zones, no matter how hard I tried to ignore it I could not.
So the point I'm making is people who do not get on with power meters are people who also have problems with speed data, or heart rate data. The only real difference between power and speed is you can't blame the wind if your power is down and you can't kid yourself you are able to ride at 32 mph on the flat without the wind behind you.
Power is truth and some find the truth disturbing. Some like me do not respond well to measuring performance in training on a permanent basis. I now look forward to doing specific sessions where I use power but for me it ruins my cycling if I always use the power meter. This is a shame because there is a lot you can do with all the data. It is my problem not the power meter's. You can't blame tools.0 -
Having got back from a handicap race, I didnt cop anyone with a PT or srm equiv etc and there was some serious monied bikes lined up.
As the racing was hard and fast, the fact that I race on feel does for me... I do not use anything on the bike apart from Strava in the back pocket. HR.. cadence and watts in short UK races are a distraction, you just dont have the time to be mulling over data on your stem.
As for training, well as a vet, I am not considering a PT at all - rather spend my money on other nice bike related equipment.. given the chance... I do need a new turbo or Elite rollers for next winter
Training: I do use Trainer Road however and the 'make believe' as others would say, figures do for me..... I know that they have a constancy and a repeatability and when used with GC... can see a trend of overall improvement.. but probably not as good if I employed a coach... but my time for such ideals are well over..
Competing on feel is my solution... like today with the last 30 minutes I felt like chucking up but still had a good strong finish in me at the end.
just my threepence0 -
I do not use anything on the bike apart from Strava in the back pocket. HR.. cadence and watts in short UK races are a distraction, you just dont have the time to be mulling over data on your stem.
Even if you don't look at the power meter data during a race studying the data afterwards could give you some insight into where your strengths and weaknesses are and where to focus your training.0 -
twotyred wrote:I do not use anything on the bike apart from Strava in the back pocket. HR.. cadence and watts in short UK races are a distraction, you just dont have the time to be mulling over data on your stem.
Even if you don't look at the power meter data during a race studying the data afterwards could give you some insight into where your strengths and weaknesses are and where to focus your training.
You do not need a power meter to work out where your strengths and weaknesses are and where to focus your training.
If your coach can't do simple things like that without power meter data he is a snake oil salesman using power meter jargon to convince you he knows what he is doing. It is an old trick - dress up the blindingly obvious in jargon and numbers then pretend what you are doing is clever. Power meter data is useful, mostly all it does is confirm what you already knew and give you evidence to hold under the nose of people who believe in astrology or believe water has memory.
And as for Strava in the back pocket, might as well carry tarot cards. Inaccurate data is worse than useless.
I'm waiting for,"Train with power not to power" or some other banal statement vomited up by the usual power meter brainwashing sect.0 -
twotyred wrote:I do not use anything on the bike apart from Strava in the back pocket. HR.. cadence and watts in short UK races are a distraction, you just dont have the time to be mulling over data on your stem.
Even if you don't look at the power meter data during a race studying the data afterwards could give you some insight into where your strengths and weaknesses are and where to focus your training.
Strava in the back pocket, might as well carry tarot cards. Inaccurate data is worse than useless.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/01/ ... ining.htmlDave_P1 wrote:Thanks Alex for answering my question.
Not for you to answer in particular, but anyone, but why would your power be any different indoors compared to outside on the road? Just say, for argument sake that you wanted to ride at 150 watts for 10 minutes on the trainer and then outside, would the effort not be the same? I know you have the weather to contend with, but if you had a tail wind on said effort then that surley means you would be travelling faster than say into a head wind.
Thanks, I will have a read0 -
A basic assessment of strengths and weaknesses doesn't require a power meter, I don't know anyone who suggests that it does.BigFatBloke wrote:You do not need a power meter to work out where your strengths and weaknesses are and where to focus your training.
If your coach can't do simple things like that without power meter data he is a snake oil salesman using power meter jargon to convince you he knows what he is doing.
Yet the data can provide additional insight into why, and provide actionable intelligence, i.e. what course of action is more likely to result in an improvement for that individual, as well as provide qualitative evidence as to whether performance is actually improving and by how much.0 -
Not necessarily, indeed it can be quite useful. I'd say imprecise data is more troublesome but even that depends on the nature of the imprecision.BigFatBloke wrote:Inaccurate data is worse than useless.0
