Training for Steep Hills

dee4life2005

I was out on a local loop at the weekend and took in one of the steep hills near me (Craigowl Hill) that I have yet to conquer without stopping for a rest (4 attempts now). It's 2.1 miles avg. 8.7%, with the last 1.2 miles avg. 10.7% ... and it has a brutal 0.2 mile section of 25% about 2/3rds into the overall climb.

Segment Effort:
http://app.strava.com/activities/63798108#1207910835

I'd really like to be able to get up this hill without having to stop - trying to clip back in with SPD-SL's on a 25% gradient (single track road) aint easy

I'm generally not too bad at climbing anything up to about 10-15% (managed both directions over Carin o Mount recently), and have a few local KOM's on Cat 4's, but this 25% gradient bit gets me every time. The legs feel relatively okay, but the heart rate just sky rockets to 190+.

Is there anything training wise that would help me with this ... would flat out sprint intervals be more beneficial to improve cardio, or would hill repeats (boring as they are) be better ?? Or something else ?

Thanks

drlodge

Lower gears and go up the steep bit more slowly? What is your gearing currently?

dee4life2005

sorry, forgot to add my gears.

I tried going up it on my hybrid which has compact gearing, so the gear combo there was 34x28 once I hit the steep section - although I was already in that gear for the 10% gradient bit before it trying to spin it out - didn't help much.

On the road bike, I have a triple (yeah, I know), and the gear combo here was 30x25 ... which from checking online makes it pretty much identical to the 34x28 (unless I'm missing something). As the road bike is a fair chunk lighter it does seem a bit easier than the hybrid.

I'm not sure I can get much slower up the steep bit without falling off - I was down to between 4 and 5.5 mph, and it was a bit of a struggle turning the 30x25 gear over.

I've also dropped nearly 3 stone in the last year, since I first attempted it ... now 5' 10'' at 161lbs. This weight loss has helped loads in all other aspects, except this one steep section of this hill ...

dgstewart

The south side of the Cairn O'Mount is 2 miles at 10% average, so steeper overall than this Craigowl Hill (looks tasty, must give it a try one day ). If you can do COM you can do Graigowl.

Think you just need to pace it a bit better so you're not blowing up as soon as you hit the 25% section. You should be able to keep going below 4mph for a bit - I got down to 3mph up the COM into a brutal headwind a few years back. Just keep grinding slowly, but not so hard your legs give up.

Also, maybe consider a bigger cassette to go with your triple, like a 12-27 or 11-28 for example. I've never found having too low a gear a major problem. I did the Snow Roads a few weeks ago, and decided to stick on an 11-32 just in case. Lots of laughter in the car park before we left, not so much 100 miles later going up the 20% section of the Lecht ! Yes, I could have done it with a 27 or 28, but no harm in going lower.

Bear in mind we see Pros using 34/27 for some brutal steep sections these days.

dee4life2005

Perhaps you're right with my pacing on the climb ... I did take 8 minutes off my PB from late last year after all - 15-20mph headwind probably wasn't helping.

The thing with COM that I found good was that after the initial 16% ramp at Clatterin Brig it settled in to a fairly steady 7-10% until the final 10-16% ramp up near the car parks. This meant I could just tap out a rhythm ... but Craigowl is a bit all over the place as far as gradients are concerned so this isn't really possible.

Might give it another go at the weekend, and take it a bit easier for the first mile. Might also look at a slightly different cassette although I do like the close ratios that the 12-15 gives for general road riding.

I'm assuming I wouldn't have any issue if I did switch to a 28 rear cog with a 10 speed Ultegra derailleur - other than probably having to lengthen the chain by a few links.

dgstewart

When you hit a steep section, it's easy to think you should hammer it to try to maintain momentum and carry as much speed from the easier gradient as far up the steep bit as you can. So you push hard at the start of the very steep section and quickly run out of legs .

For varying gradients like that I think it helps to just "go with the flow". Accept you will slow down on the steep bit and don't fight it, just keep turning over the pedals with the same effort not cadence - ignore speed (as long as you can stay upright!). Change down, or if you're in bottom gear, just grind slower without really hammering it. Watch your HR, and don't let it go above a certain number (whatever your "red line" is).

This should mean you can maintain a slightly lower pace, but for longer, and when the gradient eases off a bit you won't be so beat up and you'll be able to pick the cadence/speed up a bit quicker and probably get a higher overall average speed, plus your legs won't be beaten up so much for the rest of the ride.

For the cassette, I think a standard Ultegra will take a 28 happily enough. I run a 11/28 on SRAM Red without trouble, and used to run it on Shimano 105 no problem either. To go higher than 28 you generally need a mid/long cage rear mech.

drlodge

I think pacing yourself is the answer. I'm about the same as you ...5'9" and 166 lbs and have 34x27 as bottom gear. I use this at about 10% on long climbs and above 15% it gets tough and that's about where I will start to stand. Barhatch near Cranleigh is the steepest near me...a longish climb around the 10-15% mark but then it ramps up to 21% at the end. If I over do the first part I blow up towards the end.

I suggest next time take it really easy so you have plenty in reserve at the steep bit to get up in one. Once you've done that, you can increase your pace slowly in the knowledge that you can do it in one, if paced correctly.

marcusjb

dgstewart wrote:

For the cassette, I think a standard Ultegra will take a 28 happily enough. I run a 11/28 on SRAM Red without trouble, and used to run it on Shimano 105 no problem either. To go higher than 28 you generally need a mid/long cage rear mech.

The OP has a triple - meaning that he will need the long cage version of the mech. Short cage will handle 28, but only with a compact/double setup. This is assuming the triple is something like 30/39/52 (giving 22T difference, add 17T difference for a total of 39T - i.e. outside of the capacity of the short cage (34T) but within the long cage (40T).

But it is likely that if your bike already had a triple setup from new, it will have the long-cage version anyway - so no worries.

As for going up hills, sadly going up hills is the only real way to get better at going up hills. Sprint intervals etc. will help - but not as much as going up hills. Beyond fitness, it is a technique and pacing yourself thing. If you are near CoM, then I'd suggest 10 repeats of that each morning will soon get you up to speed! (I've only climbed it once, it is a real beauty of a climb, but does get a bit hard work right at the end).

Best of luck for it all.

dee4life2005

It's a 52/39/30 triple chainset, but I have no idea if it's the short or long cage rear mech I have - is it stamped on the derailleur anywhere, as it's not on the spec sheet for my bike, it just says "Shimano Ultegra RD-6700" and doesn't specify if it's type SS or GS.

Sadly I'm about 45 miles away from Cairn o Mount :-( so heading up there to do hill repeats isn't really practical, although I would probably enjoy doing it (my legs/knees probably wouldn't thank me for it though) - the climb is worth it for the views at the top and the descent (Weeeeeeeeeeee )

drlodge

dee4life2005 wrote:

It's a 52/39/30 triple chainset, but I have no idea if it's the short or long cage rear mech I have - is it stamped on the derailleur anywhere, as it's not on the spec sheet for my bike, it just says "Shimano Ultegra RD-6700" and doesn't specify if it's type SS or GS.

Sadly I'm about 45 miles away from Cairn o Mount :-( so heading up there to do hill repeats isn't really practical, although I would probably enjoy doing it (my legs/knees probably wouldn't thank me for it though) - the climb is worth it for the views at the top and the descent (Weeeeeeeeeeee )

With a triple it must be long cage. Just looking at it should tell you (or post a pic of it here)

dee4life2005

Woohoo, made it up in one go today without having to stop. Took it easy at the bottom, perhaps too easy, but managed up the 25% section with a peak heart rate of 185. The last time i must have gone to quick, as u suggested, but despite stopping for a minute rest that time i was still quicker up than i was today ... Might have to start attempting that hill a couple of times a month to get better at it.

It was tough going in 25c temp

Baby Trek

Well done!

thegreatdivide

Just checked the segment - I didn't even realise that was a road. I'm off to do it after work...;-)

dee4life2005

If you're on about Craigowl then yes it's a private road all the way to the top with a couple of cattlegrids - they're easy enough if you keep in a straight line. Just watch out for the cows - especially on the way down. The dozy sods think nothing of walking out in front of cyclists without looking - not exactly what you want when you're doing 30+ down a 20% gradient.

Post an update to let us know how you got on, and whether this hill is in fact easy and I need to HTFU

davidof

dee4life2005 wrote:

I was out on a local loop at the weekend and took in one of the steep hills near me (Craigowl Hill) that I have yet to conquer without stopping for a rest (4 attempts now). It's 2.1 miles avg. 8.7%, with the last 1.2 miles avg. 10.7% ... and it has a brutal 0.2 mile section of 25% about 2/3rds into the overall climb.

Segment Effort:
http://app.strava.com/activities/63798108#1207910835

I see you have now done this.

An Ultegra rear mech will handle a 28 tooth rear and almost certainly a 30 tooth rear which is what I run. It will possible handle a 32 rear depending on the frame, hangar position etc.

Your segment reminds me of this near me

http://app.strava.com/segments/644240

259 meters of climbing over 1.9km giving a grade of 13.9% but around half way it is 23% with a final corner of 30% (where cars get stuck, you can take this wide on a bike and avoid the worst of the steepness). As others have said, the only way to tackle this is to leave a bit in the tank for the steep section. Personally at those kinds of grades I need to be out of the saddle and the guy who KOM this segment was out of the saddle for a lot of the climb.

As you are quite light already I would suggest you need to work on power if you are having difficulty on steeps and this means interval training at or close to your max power.