Big ask for Cav?

Lichtblick
Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
edited July 2013 in Pro race
Points after (ok, only) two stages:

Sagan 43
Greipel 21
Cavendish 17

1 197 Marcel KITTEL GER ARG 47
2 011 Peter SAGAN SVK CAN 43
3 103 Alexander KRISTOFF NOR KAT 41
4 161 Lars BOOM NED BEL 40
5 208 Danny VAN POPPEL NED VCD 39
6 042 Jan BAKELANTS BEL RLT 30
7 176 David MILLAR GBR GRS 30
8 153 Michal KWIATKOWSKI POL OPQ 22
9 158 Matteo TRENTIN ITA OPQ 22
10 218 Julien SIMON FRA SOJ 21
11 185 Daryl IMPEY RSA OGE 21
12 024 André GREIPEL GER LTB 21
13 084 Samuel DUMOULIN FRA ALM 20
14 143 Davide CIMOLAI ITA LAM 19
15 202 Kris BOECKMANS BEL VCD 19
16 026 Gregory HENDERSON NZL LTB 18
17 002 Edvald BOASSON HAGEN NOR SKY 17
18 204 Juan Antonio FLECHA GIANNONI ESP VCD 17
19 058 David VEILLEUX CAN EUC 17
20 151 Mark CAVENDISH GBR OPQ 17

source: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/t ... green.html
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Comments

  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    Not necessarily; I got the impression he didn't go all-out in the intermediate sprint on Sat because he was saving himself for the finish. Yesterday was never going to be a day for Cav...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    I've read that he's been on anti-biotics for the last 5 days (reason unknown, and yet to be officially confirmed)
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    The gap above isn't much and catchable.

    After today it'll be much more difficult, nearly 50 points already.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    You can't keep a good man down. He'll be fine :wink:
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Points after (ok, only) three stages:

    Sagan 74
    Greipel 30
    Cavendish 25
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,290
    The medium mountain stages - 2,3 & 14 - were always going to be where Sagan gained points on the others. Now he's had two of them and he doesn't seem to be sprinting at his best.
    Give Greipel & Cavendish a couple of 'home games' and we'll see where things stand.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    You reckon Cavendish can make up over 50 points on Sagan, when Sagan can ride up mountains at or near the front and Cav's at the back?

    ok
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,504
    Lichtblick wrote:
    You reckon Cavendish can make up over 50 points on Sagan, when Sagan can ride up mountains at or near the front and Cav's at the back?

    ok

    These aren't mountains.

    Sagan will be in the bus when we get to the real mountains.

    I think this Kiatkowski could be a green jersey threat.



    In other news 49 is less than 50 :wink:
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    45pts for a flat stage. 30pts for a non-flat one. Sagan's had a fall and isn't quite at best as a result; Cav's had a brochial infection.

    Finely balanced for the three weeks I'd say. Pressure will definitely be on if Cav doesn't start hoovering up the flat stage wins.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,290
    Lichtblick wrote:
    You reckon Cavendish can make up over 50 points on Sagan, when Sagan can ride up mountains at or near the front and Cav's at the back?

    ok

    1. Sagan won't be anywhere near the front at the end of mountain stages

    2. On mountain stages larger breaks go away meaning there's little in the way of points on offer at intermediate sprints if he manages to hang in there for long enough.

    3. With about seven flat stages to come and 45 points for the winner of each, 50 points isn't that much.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    45pts for a flat stage. 30pts for a non-flat one. Sagan's had a fall and isn't quite at best as a result; Cav's had a brochial infection.

    Finely balanced for the three weeks I'd say. Pressure will definitely be on if Cav doesn't start hoovering up the flat stage wins.

    45 POINTS FOR A FLAT STAGE! :shock:

    well, I didn't know that - clearly. Sorreeeeeeeeeee.

    However, how's about this. It took Cav five years of TdF to get the green at the end. Sagan got it on his first attempt.

    :D
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,765
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    45pts for a flat stage. 30pts for a non-flat one. Sagan's had a fall and isn't quite at best as a result; Cav's had a brochial infection.

    Finely balanced for the three weeks I'd say. Pressure will definitely be on if Cav doesn't start hoovering up the flat stage wins.

    45 POINTS FOR A FLAT STAGE! :shock:

    well, I didn't know that - clearly. Sorreeeeeeeeeee.

    However, how's about this. It took Cav five years of TdF to get the green at the end. Sagan got it on his first attempt.

    :D

    They changed the scoring in 2011, because Cav won FIVE stages in 2010 and still didn't take the green jersey. Sagan has benefited from that.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,504
    Cav isn't a Green Jersey rider. He's a multiple stage winner.

    The prize for sprinters is accumulation of stage wins.

    Sagan for my money is exactly the sort of rider who should be coming away with the Green Jersey
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Crozza
    Crozza Posts: 991
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Cav isn't a Green Jersey rider. He's a multiple stage winner.

    The prize for sprinters is accumulation of stage wins.

    Sagan for my money is exactly the sort of rider who should be coming away with the Green Jersey

    I concur
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Cav isn't a Green Jersey rider. He's a multiple stage winner.

    The prize for sprinters is accumulation of stage wins.

    Sagan for my money is exactly the sort of rider who should be coming away with the Green Jersey
    Spot on for my money. Could also explain why Cav doesn't get 'up for' the intermediate sprints.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,765
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Cav isn't a Green Jersey rider. He's a multiple stage winner.

    The prize for sprinters is accumulation of stage wins.

    Sagan for my money is exactly the sort of rider who should be coming away with the Green Jersey

    I think Abduojaparov and Petacchi, amongst others, might disagree with you there...

    I'm guessing you're thinking of Kelly, but he was probably the last true all-rounder to win the green.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Cav isn't a Green Jersey rider.

    He's a multiple stage winner.

    The prize for sprinters is accumulation of stage wins.

    I've read that three times and still don't get it.
    He doesn't ride for the green jersey
    He rides for stage wins
    Green jersey is the one with most stage wins.

    :?:
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    What he's trying to say is green jersey is for most consistent finisher.

    Cavendish's stage wins are the prizes in their own right and he don't need no stinkin' jersey.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Green jersey is the one with most stage wins.

    :?:

    No it is a prize for the person with the most number of points. It is possible to win the Green Jersey and never actually win a stage.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Above The Cows wrote:
    No it is a prize for the person with the most number of points. It is possible to win the Green Jersey and never actually win a stage.

    Yes, this is correct. Erik Zabel is a prime example of this.
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    No it is a prize for the person with the most number of points. It is possible to win the Green Jersey and never actually win a stage.

    Yes, this is correct. Erik Zabel is a prime example of this.

    And maybe Sagan this year.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    Has Cav ever mentioned if he prefers to win Tour stages, or get the Green jersey? I believe he once said that crossing the line first, arms raised, was what drove him.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,504
    iainf72 wrote:
    What he's trying to say is green jersey is for most consistent finisher.

    Cavendish's stage wins are the prizes in their own right and he don't need no stinkin' jersey.

    While trying to avoid the phrase 'consistent' finisher...


    It's the True Racer's Prize.

    It shouldn't go to a sit-in sprinter.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,841
    Cav won't win green. I don't anyone but Young Peto will win green.

    And I should know, I'm an Internet Forum Person
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,256
    TailWindHome wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    What he's trying to say is green jersey is for most consistent finisher.

    Cavendish's stage wins are the prizes in their own right and he don't need no stinkin' jersey.

    While trying to avoid the phrase 'consistent' finisher...


    It's the True Racer's Prize.

    It shouldn't go to a sit-in sprinter.
    Surely it should go to whoever gets the most points given the rules of the competition? For what it is worth, I think the TDF has got it just about right, favouring someone like Sagan who will be at the pointy end on all but the most mountainous stages but giving a chance to a sprinter who is prepared to really work for it by going for the intermediates. I much prefer it to the Giro, for example, where this year excepted, it invariably ends up in the hands of someone high on GC.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,504
    DeadCalm wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    What he's trying to say is green jersey is for most consistent finisher.

    Cavendish's stage wins are the prizes in their own right and he don't need no stinkin' jersey.

    While trying to avoid the phrase 'consistent' finisher...


    It's the True Racer's Prize.

    It shouldn't go to a sit-in sprinter.
    Surely it should go to whoever gets the most points given the rules of the competition? For what it is worth, I think the TDF has got it just about right, favouring someone like Sagan who will be at the pointy end on all but the most mountainous stages but giving a chance to a sprinter who is prepared to really work for it by going for the intermediates. I much prefer it to the Giro, for example, where this year excepted, it invariably ends up in the hands of someone high on GC.


    It will go to whoever has the most points.

    It should go to whoever I say it should.

    Hope that clears this up.

    :wink:
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,256
    TailWindHome wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    What he's trying to say is green jersey is for most consistent finisher.

    Cavendish's stage wins are the prizes in their own right and he don't need no stinkin' jersey.

    While trying to avoid the phrase 'consistent' finisher...


    It's the True Racer's Prize.

    It shouldn't go to a sit-in sprinter.
    Surely it should go to whoever gets the most points given the rules of the competition? For what it is worth, I think the TDF has got it just about right, favouring someone like Sagan who will be at the pointy end on all but the most mountainous stages but giving a chance to a sprinter who is prepared to really work for it by going for the intermediates. I much prefer it to the Giro, for example, where this year excepted, it invariably ends up in the hands of someone high on GC.


    It will go to whoever has the most points.

    It should go to whoever I say it should.

    Hope that clears this up.

    :wink:
    Crystal.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,217
    mike6 wrote:
    Has Cav ever mentioned if he prefers to win Tour stages, or get the Green jersey? I believe he once said that crossing the line first, arms raised, was what drove him.

    Pretty sure he said around 2010 that he wasn't interested in points, only stage wins, and before 2011 he looked like he preferred coming 20th to 2nd because he didn't want anyone to have the satisfaction of outsprinting him in a contest.
    Prudhoum then tweaked the points because he thought that Cav should win Green, which worked in 2011 and he did contest the intermediates in 2012 before the gap to Sagan was too big.
    I agree his primary motivation will always be stage wins.
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Green jersey is the one with most stage wins.

    :?:

    No it is a prize for the person with the most number of points. It is possible to win the Green Jersey and never actually win a stage.

    I was quoting someone else.....

    It is also possible to win the Yellow Jersey and never actually win a stage. That's been done.

    Presumably it is also possible to win the Polka Dot and never actually .....er...... get to the top of any mountain first.

    :wink: <--- that's a wink.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,347
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Surely it should go to whoever gets the most points given the rules of the competition? For what it is worth, I think the TDF has got it just about right, favouring someone like Sagan who will be at the pointy end on all but the most mountainous stages but giving a chance to a sprinter who is prepared to really work for it by going for the intermediates. I much prefer it to the Giro, for example, where this year excepted, it invariably ends up in the hands of someone high on GC.

    I'd agree that the Tour has it about right - the shift away from crappy intermediate points for the break to hoover up has livened up the middle of the race a little, and there's a balance between the pure sprinters and those who can stick with it on the lumpy stuff that has the potential to keep us guessing for a little while longer.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships

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