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Sram Red or Ultegra di2

golfergmcgolfergmc Posts: 426
edited July 2013 in Road buying advice
If the price was the same what would you go for?
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  • BozmanBozman Posts: 2,570
    SRAM Red, even though I use Shimano. The Red is mechanical, it looks better, it's a lot lighter and I'd guess that the shift quality is good on SRAMs top groupset.
    Ultegra Di2 looks pig, hopefully the next gen will be better.
  • sharky1029sharky1029 Posts: 188
    Having recently heard quite a large number of stories about Di2 failing in poor weather and just running out of battery as the hugely long battery life leads people to be complacent and suddenly stuck in one gear for the 50km ride home, would go for sram red.
    I also prefer the double tap shifting and the other reasons mentioned above.
    That said, it is personal preference but keep in mind that replacement costs for Ui2 are higher than those of sram red for most parts and you can't go for a cheaper replacement part in emergencies (e.g. rear mech dragged into frame, with RED you can get a force rear mech but with Ui2 ou have to go and spend £200 on a new Ui2 rear mech)
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    Sram Red, you'd be a berk if you bought Ui2 over it.

    One is a top end groupset used in the pro peloton, the other is the censored son of another groupset, and looks censored too.
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,781
    Well, I'm obviously a berk because I just made exactly that choice :D
    They are both the same price, BTW, within a few quid.
    I've had most top end group sets and currently run Force which is so-so. I've had to replace a brake lever and the shift is clunky. Great brakes though.
    I figured that Red would feel good on the first ride but Di2 would continue to feel special for longer. Have only built it up on Saturday it's early to say but the shift is brilliant, it's a doddle to set up ( unlike Red) and I like the dark colour. Red would have been a bit blingy on my bike but of course it is nicer in general. I'm happy with the choice I made, though I agree with the comments. Just wanted a change really.
  • One of them you have to look down to see if its changed gear, the other you refuse to look down at because its so fugly.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,983
    Neither. Super Record.
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  • Bar ShakerBar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    sharky1029 wrote:
    Having recently heard quite a large number of stories about Di2 failing in poor weather and just running out of battery as the hugely long battery life leads people to be complacent and suddenly stuck in one gear for the 50km ride home, would go for sram red.

    Where are you hearing these stories from? Unless you can point these people out, this simply isn't true. Like a lot of others on here, I have it, it's faultless, it never needs adjustment and it is unaffected by the rain. The battery check is so simple and you just do it at the end of every ride. If you don't check your battery and you run out, well that's like not checking your tyre pressures and getting a pinch puncture.

    The reality is that you will really struggle to find a user that doesn't love it.

    sharky1029 wrote:
    I also prefer the double tap shifting and the other reasons mentioned above.
    That said, it is personal preference but keep in mind that replacement costs for Ui2 are higher than those of sram red for most parts and you can't go for a cheaper replacement part in emergencies (e.g. rear mech dragged into frame, with RED you can get a force rear mech but with Ui2 ou have to go and spend £200 on a new Ui2 rear mech)

    I don't buy parts based on the cost to replace, I buy them based on their performance. No properly adjust mech should ever get dragged into a wheel. That a Di2 mech will never go out of adjustment means that this is even less likely to happen.

    If you don't like the idea of Di2, just say so. But please don't make stuff up to justify why you don't have it.

    For what it's worth, I had double taps on my last bike and loved them. I now have Di2 with 2013 Force chainrings and cassette and think that is (short of a Red cog set) just about as good as it gets.
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  • Bar ShakerBar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    One of them you have to look down to see if its changed gear, the other you refuse to look down at because its so fugly.

    Can you really see your rear mech, if looking down/back to see what cassette cog you are on? With Di2, you don't have to look down to see if it has changed gear, you know it will have.

    There are plenty of things that are not very pretty on a bike, compared to the lesser alternative... STI shifters - bulky, look heavy, not pretty. Red/DA/Ultegra/Vision solid faced chainrings - really ugly and don't look like the lightweight things that they really are.

    With many things, not just in cycling but in all walks of life, sometimes the best performing products are not the ones that are the best looking as function takes the lead over form.

    When it comes to mech, front or rear, none are what I would describe at 'pretty'.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • galatzogalatzo Posts: 1,295
    Bar Shaker wrote:
    One of them you have to look down to see if its changed gear, the other you refuse to look down at because its so fugly.

    With many things, not just in cycling but in all walks of life, sometimes the best performing products are not the ones that are the best looking as function takes the lead over form.

    Yeah 'cus if Cheryl Cole "performed" as well as she looked then Ashley Cole wouldn't have played away all the time !
    Then again he is a pro footballer......
    25th August 2013 12hrs 37mins 52.3 seconds 238km 5500mtrs FYRM Never again.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    You don't have to stare down at Red to see if its shifted, you don't see the Pro's doing it, it works great.

    If people can't set it up that's another matter, but it's not difficult to set it up, no more than any other mechanical groupset.

    Mind you, I suppose some people can't setup anything as some people have no mechanical nouse at all and couldn't even adjust a seatpost or a headset, I think electric offers advantages to these people.
  • Bar ShakerBar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    Galatzo wrote:
    Bar Shaker wrote:
    One of them you have to look down to see if its changed gear, the other you refuse to look down at because its so fugly.

    With many things, not just in cycling but in all walks of life, sometimes the best performing products are not the ones that are the best looking as function takes the lead over form.

    Yeah 'cus if Cheryl Cole "performed" as well as she looked then Ashley Cole wouldn't have played away all the time !

    Haha yes, Myleen and Kylie also fall into this category. I'm sure there are many others.


    For those that are worried about mud/cold/wet, there is a good review of Di2 on WW.
    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 048089851b

    The latest versions are even better.
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  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,781
    mfin wrote:
    You don't have to stare down at Red to see if its shifted, you don't see the Pro's doing it, it works great.

    If people can't set it up that's another matter, but it's not difficult to set it up, no more than any other mechanical groupset.

    Mind you, I suppose some people can't setup anything as some people have no mechanical nouse at all and couldn't even adjust a seatpost or a headset, I think electric offers advantages to these people.

    These debates always turn into personal insults don't they? Apparently anyone with Ultegra Di2 is a 'berk' too.
    Have you seen how many pro teams have SRAM now compared to a couple of years ago? It's not just 'they ride what they're given' either since apparently some teams have paid with there own money to have Di2 since the riders like it so much. Mind you they're probably all berks and their mechanics incompetant. :wink:
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,076
    Pffft, great question. I ve used SRAM on and off road for the past few years but recently switched to XT on the MTB. I have to rate the performance of XT above the SRAM, but I don't think the difference.on the road is there.at all really. If I switch on toad, I'd have to go electric as my hands aren't big enough for the shimano lever sweep.

    Looking at the new stuff on the front page, I think I'd go Ui2, bit I confess it would only be for.novelty/pump value...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    inseine wrote:
    mfin wrote:
    You don't have to stare down at Red to see if its shifted, you don't see the Pro's doing it, it works great.

    If people can't set it up that's another matter, but it's not difficult to set it up, no more than any other mechanical groupset.

    Mind you, I suppose some people can't setup anything as some people have no mechanical nouse at all and couldn't even adjust a seatpost or a headset, I think electric offers advantages to these people.

    These debates always turn into personal insults don't they? Apparently anyone with Ultegra Di2 is a 'berk' too.
    Have you seen how many pro teams have SRAM now compared to a couple of years ago? It's not just 'they ride what they're given' either since apparently some teams have paid with there own money to have Di2 since the riders like it so much. Mind you they're probably all berks and their mechanics incompetant. :wink:

    You got it, berks.

    No, the point is Ui2 vs Red, one is a top end groupset that's light and brilliant, the other is Shimano's entry level and somewhat heavy electric groupset. The only reason to have ui2 over red is if you are incompetent enough to setup a mechanical groupset. Seeing as mechanical groupsets have been around for decades and decades, they are pretty much hassle free, and Sram Red is right there with the best of them. Having Sram Red over Ui2 is a no brainer really. Its like picking a Vauxhall Astra with Climate Control over a BMW with Air Conditioning to me.

    I'm serious, some people couldn't setup and index gears to work faultlessly anyway, some people take their bike to a bike shop to cut off some steerer or adjust a headset or change some brake blocks... these people I understand don't want something that benefits from knowing a little about now and again... but once a mechanical setup is setup properly, bar censored maintenance or initial cable stretch, it will play ball for years and years.

    You get probably more people having problems with di2 in the peloton than you do Sram Red too. The rest is simply a matter of sponsorship as to who has what.
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,781
    mfin wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    mfin wrote:
    You don't have to stare down at Red to see if its shifted, you don't see the Pro's doing it, it works great.

    If people can't set it up that's another matter, but it's not difficult to set it up, no more than any other mechanical groupset.

    Mind you, I suppose some people can't setup anything as some people have no mechanical nouse at all and couldn't even adjust a seatpost or a headset, I think electric offers advantages to these people.

    These debates always turn into personal insults don't they? Apparently anyone with Ultegra Di2 is a 'berk' too.
    Have you seen how many pro teams have SRAM now compared to a couple of years ago? It's not just 'they ride what they're given' either since apparently some teams have paid with there own money to have Di2 since the riders like it so much. Mind you they're probably all berks and their mechanics incompetant. :wink:



    You got it, berks.

    No, the point is Ui2 vs Red, one is a top end groupset that's light and brilliant, the other is Shimano's entry level and somewhat heavy electric groupset. The only reason to have ui2 over red is if you are incompetent enough to setup a mechanical groupset. Seeing as mechanical groupsets have been around for decades and decades, they are pretty much hassle free, and Sram Red is right there with the best of them. Having Sram Red over Ui2 is a no brainer really. Its like picking a Vauxhall Astra with Climate Control over a BMW with Air Conditioning to me.

    I'm serious, some people couldn't setup and index gears to work faultlessly anyway, some people take their bike to a bike shop to cut off some steerer or adjust a headset or change some brake blocks... these people I understand don't want something that benefits from knowing a little about now and again... but once a mechanical setup is setup properly, bar censored maintenance or initial cable stretch, it will play ball for years and years.

    You get probably more people having problems with di2 in the peloton than you do Sram Red too. The rest is simply a matter of sponsorship as to who has what.

    I was seriously torn between Red and Di2 (ridiculous to call it entry level. If there was Sora Di2 would it suddenly be high end?) and I don't think I chose Di2 because I'm incompetant. Have you tried both over a reasonible distance? I'm interested to hear, though wiser (and less pig headed ) people than you have raved about Di2. I don't have a huge bias to be honest.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    inseine wrote:
    I was seriously torn between Red and Di2 (ridiculous to call it entry level. If there was Sora Di2 would it suddenly be high end?) and I don't think I chose Di2 because I'm incompetant. Have you tried both over a reasonible distance? I'm interested to hear, though wiser (and less pig headed ) people than you have raved about Di2. I don't have a huge bias to be honest.

    Well, maybe you've got no taste, lots of people haven't :) I've tried di2 not ui2, what I can say is there's no way that any of them offer any more perfect shifting than Red, and in the case of ui2, lugging around that extra weight for no real benefit, with a load of gear that looks censored to boot is not something I'd do. I just can't see anything but disadvantages compared to Red if you know how to set up a mechanical groupset.

    I know it ruins the look of some otherwise nice bikes for sure, not that many people can see it. If you take a cross section of the public for instance and example, somehow there are some people who wear baseball caps and think they look good, even though under the rim baseball caps are clearly labelled 'insert tw*t here'.
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,781
    I wish I was half as opinionated as you, it'd make my job a whole lot easier. On the other hand I'm not sure I'd find myself very nice company.
  • Bar ShakerBar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    mfin wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    I was seriously torn between Red and Di2 (ridiculous to call it entry level. If there was Sora Di2 would it suddenly be high end?) and I don't think I chose Di2 because I'm incompetant. Have you tried both over a reasonible distance? I'm interested to hear, though wiser (and less pig headed ) people than you have raved about Di2. I don't have a huge bias to be honest.

    Well, maybe you've got no taste, lots of people haven't :) I've tried di2 not ui2, what I can say is there's no way that any of them offer any more perfect shifting than Red, and in the case of ui2, lugging around that extra weight for no real benefit, with a load of gear that looks censored to boot is not something I'd do. I just can't see anything but disadvantages compared to Red if you know how to set up a mechanical groupset.

    I know it ruins the look of some otherwise nice bikes for sure, not that many people can see it. If you take a cross section of the public for instance and example, somehow there are some people who wear baseball caps and think they look good, even though under the rim baseball caps are clearly labelled 'insert tw*t here'.


    Can you not see how that post makes you look? Whilst you wish to tar us Di2 users with the same brush, I am very pleased to report that the Red users I know are nice people.

    For the record there is no Ui2, there is DA Di2 and Ultegra Di2. Ultegra Di2 is 50g heavier than the mechanical Ultegra mechs and cables.

    Your anger and abusiveness mean I will not comment on this any more.
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  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    inseine wrote:
    I wish I was half as opinionated as you, it'd make my job a whole lot easier. On the other hand I'm not sure I'd find myself very nice company.

    :) no problem. I actually couldn't care less what people ride.

    People in general don't have much taste though design-wise, I'll stick by that.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    Bar Shaker wrote:

    Your anger and abusiveness mean I will not comment on this any more.

    Anger?? :) ha, far from it! I'm chirpy as anything, just like having a laugh.

    If you think any of that is serious and abusive maybe brush your brain with Sensodyne a little bit. You can ride whatever you like, as can we all, and everybody's decisions are based on different things, simple as that. U12 is still fugly though :)
  • Lifeboy123Lifeboy123 Posts: 213
    I've tried a friends Di2, very easy shifting, its so slick you have to look to see to convince yourself you've changed gear.

    I was sceptical at first , yes it adds a bit weight but unless you a serious mechanical (I.e battery failure) I'd argue that electronic coud actually be less routine maintenance , no need to index your gears anymore after any cable stretch with those micro shifters

    I have SRAM rival and Ultegra 6700 , prefer smoothness of shimano but the fixed brake lever and double click of SRAM but its not so smooth switching on the front ring...can anyone tell me how Red compares to Rival ..I know it's lighter but is it as clunky ?
  • Dick ScruttockDick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    Lifeboy123 wrote:
    I was sceptical at first , yes it adds a bit weight but unless you a serious mechanical (I.e battery failure) I'd argue that electronic coud actually be less routine maintenance , no need to index your gears anymore after any cable stretch with those micro shifters

    IIRC DA 9000 is actually heavier than DA 9070.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,076
    Now there are hydraulic Shimano brakes (hopefully rim brakes soon), i think I'd go Ui2.....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
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