Carlton Kirby

thegreatdivide

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

I am still loving his quote about Italian brass bands from the Giro.

'They're strung out like a Welsh sportive' is still my all time fave

argyllflyer

thegreatdivide wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

I am still loving his quote about Italian brass bands from the Giro.

'They're strung out like a Welsh sportive' is still my all time fave

He had a cracker in the Tour when the crosswinds struck, saying something along the lines of "we saw a statue of Napoleon earlier but's all been blown apart today!"

Cowdaddy

thegreatdivide wrote:

Cowdaddy wrote:

Just about tolerated his commentary during TDF, he seemed to get the best out of Sean Kelly (possibly because Kelly was so embarrassed about Kirby's ineptitude) but this weekend have listened to possibly the worst ever commentary on a sports event during the Tour de Pologne from Carlton Kirby.

The man hasn't got a clue and continually spouts drivel, his commentary totally spoiled my enjoyment of both stages.

I realise the Eurosport don't have a big budget but surely they can find someone better than this.

I’ve never once switched to the Eurosport and thought ‘Oh no it’s Kirby commentating’.

If he’s that bad why don’t you write to the channel offering your cycling expertise? Your expertise being fuxk all.

Sorry to disagree with you but every time I hear him on Eurosport or Sky Sports I think "Oh no it's Kirby commentating", he is very poor.

Not sure why you need to be so vitriolic in your reply, you have no idea of my cycling expertise - we clearly just have to agree to differ in our views.

I would venture to suggest that the majority of knowledgeable cycling fans would agree with me in my opinion of Kirby's commentary/cycling knowledge.

Mikey23

Yes, certainly some divided opinion... I suppose I'm not overly interested in inciteful and in depth cycling knowledge in my commentary, I can kind of work that out for myself. but I do like some nice witty banter and good scenery and Carlton delivers that for me...

Pross

thegreatdivide wrote:

Cowdaddy wrote:

Just about tolerated his commentary during TDF, he seemed to get the best out of Sean Kelly (possibly because Kelly was so embarrassed about Kirby's ineptitude) but this weekend have listened to possibly the worst ever commentary on a sports event during the Tour de Pologne from Carlton Kirby.

The man hasn't got a clue and continually spouts drivel, his commentary totally spoiled my enjoyment of both stages.

I realise the Eurosport don't have a big budget but surely they can find someone better than this.

I’ve never once switched to the Eurosport and thought ‘Oh no it’s Kirby commentating’.

If he’s that bad why don’t you write to the channel offering your cycling expertise? Your expertise being fuxk all.

That last paragraph often gets spouted in response to criticism of commentators but makes no sense. If I felt a surgeon was doing a particularly bad job I would expect to be able to say so without feeling the need to take over his job myself. I know for a fact I couldn't be a cycling commentator which is why I haven't tried it as my career, Kirby on the other hand has and is therefore in a position where people using his service can comment on how well they feel he is doing his job. It's a tricky thing to get right, not talking a load of nonsense whilst filling hours of airtime with very little action to describe. It must be one of the toughest sports to cover for that very reason. However, the least people can expect is surely to get rider identification and the current race situation correct plus with a bit of luck some insightful comment on likely outcome that someone who spends their working life covering the sport should get a feel for. Harmon can be just as guilty of inane chatter to fill time, it goes with the territory for the reasons given above, but he gets the important facts right which is all I ask. I'm not sure how foreign channels get the balance right (if they do) between long silence and filling the airtime with nonsense - that is the real difficulty.

Mikey23

I think they are usually stuck in a box somewhere near the finish with access to the same feeds as we are and often the info is quite sketchy like in the pologne getting no time clock, distances or relative group positions

I did notice there was one fairly knowledgeable commentator recently on some race or other who rarely picked out the rider, just the team

Pross

Mikey23 wrote:

I think they are usually stuck in a box somewhere near the finish with access to the same feeds as we are and often the info is quite sketchy like in the pologne getting no time clock, distances or relative group positions

I did notice there was one fairly knowledgeable commentator recently on some race or other who rarely picked out the rider, just the team

Yes, for Poland that's a reasonable defence as the coverage has been appalling and as you say they get the same feed as us and probably on a much smaller screen but they probably get some audio letting them know what is going on as well. With two people they should be able to manage their own time checks (I'm sure I'm not the only one that does this at home?) and at least spot and correctly name the main players (Harmon has a real skill for this without necessarily being able to see a number). Missing Wiggins slide out the back at the start of the final hill on Stage 1 and then comment near the top that they hadn't seen anything of him is an example of poor observational skills, something which you would think is essential for a commentator?

rick_chasey

thegreatdivide wrote:

Cowdaddy wrote:

Just about tolerated his commentary during TDF, he seemed to get the best out of Sean Kelly (possibly because Kelly was so embarrassed about Kirby's ineptitude) but this weekend have listened to possibly the worst ever commentary on a sports event during the Tour de Pologne from Carlton Kirby.

The man hasn't got a clue and continually spouts drivel, his commentary totally spoiled my enjoyment of both stages.

I realise the Eurosport don't have a big budget but surely they can find someone better than this.

I’ve never once switched to the Eurosport and thought ‘Oh no it’s Kirby commentating’.

If he’s that bad why don’t you write to the channel offering your cycling expertise? Your expertise being fuxk all.

Take it we won't be hearing your opinion of how anyone is doing their job then? :roll:

Moan about the PM? If he’s that bad why don’t you write to Westminster offering your ministerial expertise? Your expertise being fuxk all.

Moan about your dentist? If he’s that bad why don’t you write to the faculty of dentist at the royal college of surgeons offering your dentistry expertise? Your expertise being fuxk all.


etc.

Ron Stuart

I believe that Harmon's depression was brought on by listening to Kirby, certainly he depresses me and when he teams up with that 'Babbling Brook' Smith it's off with the sound again.

Macaloon

To be fair. It's only criminal when he talks about riders and racing. Someone at ES should make him watch ITV4 coverage and note how tranquil it sounds with (wild a$$ guess) 33% ambient noise & sweet silence from P&P. It's TV. He doesn't need to be making a noise 100% of the time.

argyllflyer

Mikey23 wrote:

I think they are usually stuck in a box somewhere near the finish with access to the same feeds as we are and often the info is quite sketchy like in the pologne getting no time clock, distances or relative group positions

You're being overly favourable to them there. There are few races that they actually go to the race itself.

Dan Lloyd and Ant McCrossan's company provide English commentary for all major Italian races and as its direct for the organiser / host broadcaster whoever's commentating goes along. It's presently Carlton and DL and you can see what they're working with here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSHAU27uIcA

I imagine that's the set-up at most finish lines, such as the Tour.

Otherwise, and with Eurosport especially, they're sitting in a studio somewhere (Paris?) watching the pictures we're watching. In that case, it could easily be a 50" HD screen they're looking at.

Eurosport had commentators on-site at Turkey, Roubaix and the Tour. I think everything else has been 'off box'. Quigley and Kelly were definitely not in Italy and the difference in the commentary between Kirby and DQ was marked, as CK had access to all the extra screens as well as the local ambience.

Mikey23

Interesting, thanks for sharing that. so dependent on their feeds and data and what's they can generate for themselves... Like a sneaky peaky at froome's race data ...Heart rate only 116 average?

deejay

For 90% of time I mute Kirby, Harmon and Maggy.
Shows how desperate ES is, they have dragged Smith back from snooker. He is I believe, a former club cyclist.
They must have contracts to fill in vocals to most sports like a Dogsbody and are particularly good in Highlight or News programs.
My wife has started throwing things at me when I can't help having a false laugh when Kirby has his chuckles.
I'm never sure what the joke is so I join in. Wal--lop, ouch.

Macaloon

It could be worse. Feast on the scathe heaped on MOTD in this entertaining* comments thread:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/01/mark-lawrenson-match-of-the-day#start-of-comments

(*if you can forget for a moment that this national sport shames its nation)

eg: "Savage has verbal dyssentry, Wrighty seems to be aware that he's talking nonsense and getting paid handsomely to do so. Hansen's been in a 19th hole golfbore coma for years, possibly induced by Lineker's plodding delivery. Shearer gives zombies a bad name.. Murray's so far up his own ar$e that the search party gave up. Chapman is just Frank Skinner without the desperately inoffensive smarm. Employing Dalglish's daughter is probably the BBC suits' nepotistic answer to Yorath and Tarbuck. "Think of the laydee-quotas, cheps, and the potential for costume malfunctions."

FJS

afx237vi wrote:

I know I've said it before, but the studio completely sucks the atmosphere and excitement out the race, especially when they go back to it so soon after the stage has finished. They even did it last night. What would people rather see, riders being interviewed and DS reaction on the spot, or Sean Yates mumbling in a deathly quiet studio 300 miles from the action?

As you're such a fan of studio-based commentary, make sure to check out the Tour of Denmark live stream: http://www.postdanmarkrundt.dk/index.ph ... hp&menu=30

RichN95.

Macaloon wrote:

It could be worse. Feast on the scathe heaped on MOTD in this entertaining* comments thread:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/01/mark-lawrenson-match-of-the-day#start-of-comments

(*if you can forget for a moment that this national sport shames its nation)

eg: "Savage has verbal dyssentry, Wrighty seems to be aware that he's talking nonsense and getting paid handsomely to do so. Hansen's been in a 19th hole golfbore coma for years, possibly induced by Lineker's plodding delivery. Shearer gives zombies a bad name.. Murray's so far up his own ar$e that the search party gave up. Chapman is just Frank Skinner without the desperately inoffensive smarm. Employing Dalglish's daughter is probably the BBC suits' nepotistic answer to Yorath and Tarbuck. "Think of the laydee-quotas, cheps, and the potential for costume malfunctions."

Off topic here - sorry Rick, FF & others.;

Match of the Day is so stale these days. It needs a massive revamp.

I don't know if anyone has seen it, but for my money the best highlights & punditry show in sport is Scrum V during the Six Nations Rugby. It's Welsh with a Welsh bias, but it's a really good show. I always watch it yet I don't really follow rugby.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Match of the Day is so stale these days. It needs a massive revamp.

Absolutely.

Let me guess, winning team had "pace, guile, great finishing and a bit of luck"?

Doesn't make Carlton any better unfortunately. Though, at least with him, I think he's probably a good bloke and he really puts in the effort. Mark Lawrenson. Literally the least appropriate man to have any sort of commentary or pundit responsibility EVER.

argyllflyer

Rick Chasey wrote:

Doesn't make Carlton any better unfortunately. Though, at least with him, I think he's probably a good bloke and he really puts in the effort.

I feel his lack of research ahead of Tour de Pologne, especially with the new classification changes in mind, was glaring. It was explained in the roadbook and analysed elsewhere. He should have been more clued up than any of us.

Cumulonimbus

RichN95 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

It could be worse. Feast on the scathe heaped on MOTD in this entertaining* comments thread:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/01/mark-lawrenson-match-of-the-day#start-of-comments

(*if you can forget for a moment that this national sport shames its nation)

eg: "Savage has verbal dyssentry, Wrighty seems to be aware that he's talking nonsense and getting paid handsomely to do so. Hansen's been in a 19th hole golfbore coma for years, possibly induced by Lineker's plodding delivery. Shearer gives zombies a bad name.. Murray's so far up his own ar$e that the search party gave up. Chapman is just Frank Skinner without the desperately inoffensive smarm. Employing Dalglish's daughter is probably the BBC suits' nepotistic answer to Yorath and Tarbuck. "Think of the laydee-quotas, cheps, and the potential for costume malfunctions."

Off topic here - sorry Rick, FF & others.;

Match of the Day is so stale these days. It needs a massive revamp.

I don't know if anyone has seen it, but for my money the best highlights & punditry show in sport is Scrum V during the Six Nations Rugby. It's Welsh with a Welsh bias, but it's a really good show. I always watch it yet I don't really follow rugby.

A quick off=topic link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQarImZ97Y

iainf72

deejay wrote:

For 90% of time I mute Kirby, Harmon and Maggy.
.

What's it like being the only person on earth who doesn't think Harmon is good?

deejay

iainf72 wrote:

deejay wrote:

For 90% of time I mute Kirby, Harmon and Maggy.
.

What's it like being the only person on earth who doesn't think Harmon is good?

There are many knowledgeable racing cyclists with the same view.
You mean you like that constant chatter.??

I know he is from the planet of motor bikes and some sort of ancient architectural boffin with a knowledge of languages that got him a job in ES in Issy but cycle racing was not in him.
True he has come a long way into cycle racing in the last decade with the help of Sean Kelly.
Maybe these days with Kirby and Maggy chattering away then Harmon would be an improvement

argyllflyer

Classic Carlton line in London-Surrey upon seeing a bloke in mankini with a sign saying 'Hayley 4 U':

"Lucky her - looked a bit of a catch.... if you're a whaler!'

argyllflyer

deejay wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

deejay wrote:

For 90% of time I mute Kirby, Harmon and Maggy.
.

What's it like being the only person on earth who doesn't think Harmon is good?

There are many knowledgeable racing cyclists with the same view.
You mean you like that constant chatter.??

I know he is from the planet of motor bikes and some sort of ancient architectural boffin with a knowledge of languages that got him a job in ES in Issy but cycle racing was not in him.
True he has come a long way into cycle racing in the last decade with the help of Sean Kelly.
Maybe these days with Kirby and Maggy chattering away then Harmon would be an improvement

Wasn't it mountain bikes he raced before becoming a TV car racing commentator?

Ron Stuart

Fantastic afternoon spent watching the London-Surrey Classic on BBC, only fly in the ointment was a period with that Babbling Brook Smith involved but I just turned the torrent off till Simon Brotherton and Rob Hayles came back on.

Sooooo........ great to miss that bumbling incompetent Kirby what a releaf :!:

and great to see my ex young club mate Luke Mellor racing for Rapha at the grand old age of 20 years.

What a great weekend they had in London.

deejay

argyllflyer wrote:

deejay wrote:

Harmon !
True he has come a long way into cycle racing in the last decade with the help of Sean Kelly.
Maybe these days with Kirby and Maggy chattering away then Harmon would be an improvement

Wasn't it mountain bikes he raced before becoming a TV car racing commentator?

In his early days when I could bare to listen to him, I never heard him say he raced mountain bikes but I heard him state he once went out on a chain gang ride through Epping Forest to Harlow on one and got dropped. (seems he never went again)
I thought at the time how you would need a mountain bike to overcome the hills on that road. :roll:
I'm sure he and Kirby were discussing the merits of BMW motorbikes they have owned during the TDF Monaco To Barcelona stages. As usual, nothing to do with the race.

phil s

argyllflyer wrote:

Dan Lloyd and Ant McCrossan's company provide English commentary for all major Italian races and as its direct for the organiser / host broadcaster whoever's commentating goes along. It's presently Carlton and DL and you can see what they're working with here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSHAU27uIcA

I imagine that's the set-up at most finish lines, such as the Tour.

Neither Lloyd's nor McCrossan's company provide comms for all major Italian races. Lloyd has an individual contract for RCS races, and McCrossan is an occasional announcer at the start/finish of some stages: n.b. this is not commentary.
Having shot and edited the video you posted, I can tell you that some, but not all races are set up like that. You get a certain amount of information, graphics, occasionally a view of different moto cam shots but not much else. And you also work off quite small screens, trying to glean as much information as you can from several sources, and commentate while someone else is talking at you through your own headphones.

argyllflyer

phil s wrote:

Neither Lloyd's nor McCrossan's company provide comms for all major Italian races. Lloyd has an individual contract for RCS races, and McCrossan is an occasional announcer at the start/finish of some stages: n.b. this is not commentary.

I had read that Cyclevox provided English-speaking RCS coverage, but obviously in error. I know McCrossan only does the announcements, you can hear him in the background at prologues etc and I can recall Dave Harmon commenting during the Giro in 2012 that he could he his voice coming through.

phil s

argyllflyer wrote:

I had read that Cyclevox provided English-speaking RCS coverage, but obviously in error. I know McCrossan only does the announcements, you can hear him in the background at prologues etc and I can recall Dave Harmon commenting during the Giro in 2012 that he could he his voice coming through.

I think that's called "putting a more positive spin on things"

argyllflyer

deejay wrote:

argyllflyer wrote:

deejay wrote:

Harmon !
True he has come a long way into cycle racing in the last decade with the help of Sean Kelly.
Maybe these days with Kirby and Maggy chattering away then Harmon would be an improvement

Wasn't it mountain bikes he raced before becoming a TV car racing commentator?

In his early days when I could bare to listen to him, I never heard him say he raced mountain bikes but I heard him state he once went out on a chain gang ride through Epping Forest to Harlow on one and got dropped. (seems he never went again)
I thought at the time how you would need a mountain bike to overcome the hills on that road. :roll:
I'm sure he and Kirby were discussing the merits of BMW motorbikes they have owned during the TDF Monaco To Barcelona stages. As usual, nothing to do with the race.

This article has a few things about his MTB background:

http://www.thewashingmachinepost.net/david_harmon.html

deejay

argyllflyer wrote:

deejay wrote:

argyllflyer wrote:

deejay wrote:

Harmon !
True he has come a long way into cycle racing in the last decade with the help of Sean Kelly.
Maybe these days with Kirby and Maggy chattering away then Harmon would be an improvement

Wasn't it mountain bikes he raced before becoming a TV car racing commentator?

In his early days when I could bare to listen to him, I never heard him say he raced mountain bikes but I heard him state he once went out on a chain gang ride through Epping Forest to Harlow on one and got dropped. (seems he never went again)
I thought at the time how you would need a mountain bike to overcome the hills on that road. :roll:
I'm sure he and Kirby were discussing the merits of BMW motorbikes they have owned during the TDF Monaco To Barcelona stages. As usual, nothing to do with the race.

This article has a few things about his MTB background:
http://www.thewashingmachinepost.net/david_harmon.html

The last time I looked, there was nothing to be found about him, so thanks for that.
No mention of his Motor bikes and being a cameraman on one with some other idiot called Wilkinson I recall.
My assessment of Harmon is not far off the mark it seems.
I had reckoned that he has never been in the middle of a racing bunch because of all the eee's and oh's he makes when he sees riders go through narrow gaps etc.

It's all Duffield's fault.