rear setup

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Comments

  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Again another person not getting the point of the post. The thread is about the OP buying a cassette with a lower gear to spin in. He is not climbing the Matterhorn here, it's a few hills in his local ride out. He can get up them already and although with a bit more effort than is comfortable he still does. Spinning up there in a lower gear yes will be maybe not much slower but is it worth the cost? He needs a new cassette and a new rear mech and possibly a new chain according to his lbs. that's my argument and most of you are too stupid to understand that instead you just want to argue the toss of ratios and climbing. That's not helping a newbie if 3 months make a financial decision. My suggestion still to the OP is stick with it with what you have. It gets easier.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Again another person not getting the point of the post. The thread is about the OP buying a cassette with a lower gear to spin in. He is not climbing the Matterhorn here, it's a few hills in his local ride out. He can get up them already and although with a bit more effort than is comfortable he still does. Spinning up there in a lower gear yes will be maybe not much slower but is it worth the cost? He needs a new cassette and a new rear mech and possibly a new chain according to his lbs. that's my argument and most of you are too stupid to understand that instead you just want to argue the toss of ratios and climbing. That's not helping a newbie if 3 months make a financial decision. My suggestion still to the OP is stick with it with what you have. It gets easier.

    Well count me amongst the too stupid then. :)
    The OP said he was uncomfortably struggling and had weighed up his options and decided to change cassette, going as far as setting a budget. He was looking for assistance finding the equipment he needed and to ensure compatibility.
    Your reply was to rubbish the decision he had made and denigrate people who wished to make a situation more comfortable for themselves, branding them soft civvies.
    I had no problem at all with your argument, after all it is your point of view.
    However, I was taken aback by the arrogance of dismissing society because they are not part of your clique.

    To the OP.
    Please read Master Paul from the Wirral's post. He is making sense.
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    easyriderkel wrote:
    Hi im fairly new to road cycling. Iv recently purchased a specialized allez. Im finding im struggling on steep hill (uncomfortably struggling) iv bin advised that i can change the rear cassette. Currently mine has 25 teeth on 1st cog and want to go to something like 27 or 30 teeth. My local evans cycles told me ill need sram cassette (cant remember which 1) but they currently sell it for £19 reduced frm £35. Also will need a shimano 2300 long cage deraillieur which they dont sell and i also cant find on internet. Ill also need a sram 850 chain. Im just wondering if theres any1 on here tht could help me and tell me wether this will b the best setup. My budget will be £100-£150. Thank kel

    He was advised he could buy a cassette. I question that advice on the basis of spending more money on a temporary fix .
    My advice would to save his cash and stick with it. We all will have found hills hard at first that get better with fitness. And I don't mean lose weight as I know plenty of people who are big but still strong and fit enough to get themselves over the hills. I also think the comment of lose weight as being unhelpful and patronising. Taking me back to my first post. I bet some of the big guys I know could out climb a skinny guy with less cardio fitness any day. On a heavier bike in a higher gear.
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    I'm surprised that the spesh allez which is clearly an entry level bike and a very good one comes with 50/34 12/25 as standard. It's probably a better compact ratio but for most new riders who happen to live in hilly areas it must be soul destroying when they start out and they probably arent going to know any different unless they ask in places like this. I was fortunate that my first bike was a defy 4 with 2300 and 11/28 on the back. I wouldn't have known any different then but my LBS advised it. Several thousand miles on I could probably manage with a 25 but around here in east Cornwall I have quite a few 10 to 15% and one brutal one that ramps up to 22%.

    FWIW I think that the OP has made some logical and sensible choices about how to spend his money. I would have done the same
  • Nick_M
    Nick_M Posts: 58
    FWIW, I have a Lapierre Sensium 300, which I bought partly because it has SRAM Apex with a 34/50 ring and an 11/32 cassette. I am a slightly unfit 50-year old, not a super athlete, and I live in Wiltshire where there are a few climbs that, although not long, are pretty steep. I have really appreciated having the ultra low gear because it lets me use it for seated climbs where I would otherwise just stall out or have to grind at such a low cadence that it would kill my knees. It's not clear from the OP's post just what sort of hills he's facing, but gears are there to help you get up hills so what he's thinking about in choosing a cassette that suits his fitness and terrain sounds very sensible.
  • djm501
    djm501 Posts: 378
    I just bought a new rear derailleur for my bike a 105 medium cage jobby and that claims to cope with cassettes up to 30 teeth (10 speed though).
    I wouldn't bother changing the derailleur, just the cassette - at 8 speed that's not even very expensive a change. As others have said, just keep the old one for when you get fitter - and you will get fitter.
    A year ago I was a 20 stone cyclist who could barely cycle up my 5% driveway. In six months through cycling alone I lost 4 stone but I still need a 34/28 ratio to get me up the worst of the hills and I've done about 7000 miles since I started so I *am* fit now.
    Just change the cassette - check what derailleur you have a make sure it is compatible with a larger rear cassette though - just try and find your current one and check what the compatibility is - it should tell you in the sales spiel.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Change the cassette and whatever else you need, in order to obtain the gearing you require to get up the hills you want to cycle up. If you don't, you'll hate cycling and give up...which is not what you want.

    FYI I'm now a pretty fit, under 12stone, and I still need the 34x27 to get up some Surrey Hills. I use this gear quite a lot, sometimes just to spin up a relatively shallow hill if I don't want to exert myself too much e.g. on a long ride.

    Sure, I could probably survive on a 39x25, but I'd hate it on all but the shallowest of climbs.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    My advice would to save his cash and stick with it.

    Will he save his cash? The cassette is a consumable - as long as you can usefully use them up, they aren't wasted money. I have a few cassettes - some 11-25s I use most of the time. Since Campag brought out 12-27s in 10sp I have made increasing use of that - tbh, it is better for West Yorkshire hilly rides than the 11-25s. I maintain a higher cadence so that's good surely? Then I have a 13-29. I use this for hardcore rides with lots of steep climbing. I think I'm a fairly decent climber but all these casssettes are still useful to me and they do make my rides more enjoyable. There's no money wasted in any of them.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    The pro peloton riders change their gearings according to the conditions of the day.
  • Jon_1976
    Jon_1976 Posts: 690
    finally, a sensible reply. well done Rolf.

    Was getting a bit fed up of the 'if you can't climb walls on a 53x11, you are oxygen stealing, stupid civvie' ' :?
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Rolf F wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    My advice would to save his cash and stick with it.

    Will he save his cash? The cassette is a consumable - as long as you can usefully use them up, they aren't wasted money. I have a few cassettes - some 11-25s I use most of the time. Since Campag brought out 12-27s in 10sp I have made increasing use of that - tbh, it is better for West Yorkshire hilly rides than the 11-25s. I maintain a higher cadence so that's good surely? Then I have a 13-29. I use this for hardcore rides with lots of steep climbing. I think I'm a fairly decent climber but all these casssettes are still useful to me and they do make my rides more enjoyable. There's no money wasted in any of them.

    If he has to buy a new rear mech , chain as well as a cassette then possibly, Yes. Its not just a straight swap or did you neglect to read that part of the OP's post?

    And as far as other people go, I never suggested for a minute he should be doing uber steep climbs in top top gear. Thats just the sort of pedantic bullshit people like to pull out their arses in an attempt to be witty. I ride a lot in low gear. My Via Nirone has a 27 tooth bottom gear and have used it many a time on climbs I struggle with. Ones which a few years ago I may not have got up at all. But I never went and bought another cassette. I stuck with it and got there. I got fitter and I got stronger and it cost me nothing. And if it helps, I weigh no more or less than I did 2 or 3 years ago when I struggled to get up them climbs so weight was not a factor. Leg muscle strength and technique very much were.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    edited July 2013
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    My advice would to save his cash and stick with it.

    Will he save his cash? The cassette is a consumable - as long as you can usefully use them up, they aren't wasted money. I have a few cassettes - some 11-25s I use most of the time. Since Campag brought out 12-27s in 10sp I have made increasing use of that - tbh, it is better for West Yorkshire hilly rides than the 11-25s. I maintain a higher cadence so that's good surely? Then I have a 13-29. I use this for hardcore rides with lots of steep climbing. I think I'm a fairly decent climber but all these casssettes are still useful to me and they do make my rides more enjoyable. There's no money wasted in any of them.

    If he has to buy a new rear mech , chain as well as a cassette then possibly, Yes. Its not just a straight swap or did you neglect to read that part of the OP's post?

    Hmmm, why so aggressive? Yes, I did read all the OPs post. And it depends doesn't it? In my case, all I need to change between 11-25 and 13-29 is the chain. Which is also a consumable; the short cage mech stays the same so in my case, and maybe the OPs, it is a straight swap. Of course, your circumstances may vary but I think you know enough about cycling to realise that. How much faith do you have in Evans advice? Me - not so much. Does a 28 cassette on Shimano really need a long cage? The 30 maybe but the 27 I doubt. Does the long cage have to be a 2300 or would any old 9 or 10 speed long cage do? I suspect that a long cage rear mech that would do the job can be had pretty cheaply (ie for less than the price of a cassette) by careful Ebaying. And the chain? I imagine the OP just needs another chain with a couple of extra links in (though my 12-27 uses the same chain as the 11-25) - but nothing as specific as an SRAM 850.

    We'd be more useful if we identified what the lowest gearing the OP can attain with his existing mech is - I'd have thought we could do better than Evans. But I'm no good with that as all I know is Campag.

    And your Bianchi - it has the same cassette lowest gear as one of the cassettes the OP is considering. And a lot of folk would consider it a bit of a soft cassette at that. Just saying.... :wink:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Jon_1976
    Jon_1976 Posts: 690
    Op, 28 cassette will work on a short cage mech. You'll probably need a new chain though (chain calc says it should be 1 link longer). Current one might be ok.

    I was in the exactly the same situation as you with a 25. I've only been cycling since January. With more riding time, you'll find yourself going up hills in higher gears but I don't mind admitting I use the 28 a fair bit. It's great to have a gear that allows to let your legs have a break. I went out last night, there's 2 mini climbs right near my house. I normally go up them mid cassette. Felt knackered last night, so just put it on the 28.

    I'd highly recommend it if you can afford it. It's a great sense of achievement to blast up a hill in a higher gear but doing that you'll eventually get in the situation where you've lit all your matches and will be facing a climb home.
  • Jon_1976
    Jon_1976 Posts: 690
    Cassette http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sram-PG830-11-2 ... SRAM+11-28

    Instead of getting the lbs to fit it, buy the tools and then you can swap cassettes as needed. Lockring tool, chain tool and a chain whip. Alternatively you could make a whip from the old chain (if removed).
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    If he has to buy a new rear mech , chain as well as a cassette then possibly, Yes. Its not just a straight swap or did you neglect to read that part of the OP's post?

    And as far as other people go, I never suggested for a minute he should be doing uber steep climbs in top top gear. Thats just the sort of pedantic bullshit people like to pull out their arses in an attempt to be witty. I ride a lot in low gear. My Via Nirone has a 27 tooth bottom gear and have used it many a time on climbs I struggle with. Ones which a few years ago I may not have got up at all. But I never went and bought another cassette. I stuck with it and got there.

    So lets get this right - you're an "experienced" cyclist who advocates others (particulary 17.5st beginners) should just stick with their 12-25 cassette that they struggle on...... but yet you ride a 27 tooth cassette yourself?? You soft army types need to man up and not use the 27 sprocket - i've got a 12-25 on my bike but manage to ride the hills of N Wales with up to 25% slopes. While i made it easier for myself with a compact - i could ride any hill in N Wales on a 39-25 gear. What a wimp - using a 27 sprocket - maybe you should screw the low limit screw in and put yourself down to a 25 lowest gear!! :wink::wink:

    As has been pointed out numerous times - a cassette and chain are consumable items and can be fitted and refitted. They are not going to be binned but used in the future. A long cage mech should be around £25. Add a cassette and chain and the OP should be able to do the whole job for £100 even if a bike shop does the swap (and he gets to keep the removed items for future use) so its not wasted money

    Oh and a change of rear mech takes very little time at all - more time will be spent indexing the gears. I could swap a mech and fit a new chain in less than 15 mins including setting it up i'm sure. Hardly a full rebuild is it - its one mounting bolt and a cable clamp bolt
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Wirral_Paul wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    If he has to buy a new rear mech , chain as well as a cassette then possibly, Yes. Its not just a straight swap or did you neglect to read that part of the OP's post?

    And as far as other people go, I never suggested for a minute he should be doing uber steep climbs in top top gear. Thats just the sort of pedantic bullshit people like to pull out their arses in an attempt to be witty. I ride a lot in low gear. My Via Nirone has a 27 tooth bottom gear and have used it many a time on climbs I struggle with. Ones which a few years ago I may not have got up at all. But I never went and bought another cassette. I stuck with it and got there.

    So lets get this right - you're an "experienced" cyclist who advocates others (particulary 17.5st beginners) should just stick with their 12-25 cassette that they struggle on...... but yet you ride a 27 tooth cassette yourself?? You soft army types need to man up and not use the 27 sprocket - i've got a 12-25 on my bike but manage to ride the hills of N Wales with up to 25% slopes. While i made it easier for myself with a compact - i could ride any hill in N Wales on a 39-25 gear. What a wimp - using a 27 sprocket - maybe you should screw the low limit screw in and put yourself down to a 25 lowest gear!! :wink::wink:

    As has been pointed out numerous times - a cassette and chain are consumable items and can be fitted and refitted. They are not going to be binned but used in the future. A long cage mech should be around £25. Add a cassette and chain and the OP should be able to do the whole job for £100 even if a bike shop does the swap (and he gets to keep the removed items for future use) so its not wasted money

    Oh and a change of rear mech takes very little time at all - more time will be spent indexing the gears. I could swap a mech and fit a new chain in less than 15 mins including setting it up i'm sure. Hardly a full rebuild is it - its one mounting bolt and a cable clamp bolt

    I have 3 Bianchi, the Nirone is a winter bike I have had for a while and only changed the cassette 1 for 1 swap for free once. I use it is rarely these days. My original Sempre on the other hand has a 11-25 Double on it. And I can still climb pretty well but thats just me. Not boasting but I can. The OP can spend a 100 pound on something better of he hs it to spare. MAybe you don't understand the value of money anymore but I do. 100 pounds is still a lot ad after all that, is there the guarantee he will not still suffer getting up hills? Too many times do I read people saying "yeah, just go buy this or that" Its still cost that some cannot afford. People have to remember not everyone can afford to pay 100 just like that with no guarantee of success. Some have bills to pay, fuel and food to buy, kids to clothe. If you have the disposable income to spend frivolously go ahead, remember though that not everyone is so lucky.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Wirral_Paul wrote:
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    If he has to buy a new rear mech , chain as well as a cassette then possibly, Yes. Its not just a straight swap or did you neglect to read that part of the OP's post?

    And as far as other people go, I never suggested for a minute he should be doing uber steep climbs in top top gear. Thats just the sort of pedantic bullshit people like to pull out their arses in an attempt to be witty. I ride a lot in low gear. My Via Nirone has a 27 tooth bottom gear and have used it many a time on climbs I struggle with. Ones which a few years ago I may not have got up at all. But I never went and bought another cassette. I stuck with it and got there.

    So lets get this right - you're an "experienced" cyclist who advocates others (particulary 17.5st beginners) should just stick with their 12-25 cassette that they struggle on...... but yet you ride a 27 tooth cassette yourself?? You soft army types need to man up and not use the 27 sprocket -

    +1 on the "man up" or sometimes we hear it said in the States as "nut up". :wink:
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    People have to remember not everyone can afford to pay 100 just like that with no guarantee of success. Some have bills to pay, fuel and food to buy, kids to clothe. If you have the disposable income to spend frivolously go ahead, remember though that not everyone is so lucky.

    Page 1, post number 1 from the OP Steve - he has clearly stated a budget of £100 to £150 available to help make his bike more suitable for getting himself over the hills.
  • easyriderkel
    easyriderkel Posts: 8
    Hi every1 thx so much 4 ya posts some very interesting some not. Iv decided to take the plunge and ordered some parts. New chain a shimano 3500 long cage deraillieur and i think its a 12-30 cassette. I understand people sayin stick wit the 25 but it was getting demorillising on the hills. I decided to purchase them as sum1 has already posted that in the future once iv got my fitness and technique right i have the oppurtunity to swap back but only i will know when im ready 4 tht. As iv said thx 4 the replies
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Good for you, well done and thanks for the update
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    100 pounds is still a lot ad after all that, is there the guarantee he will not still suffer getting up hills? Too many times do I read people saying "yeah, just go buy this or that" Its still cost that some cannot afford. People have to remember not everyone can afford to pay 100 just like that with no guarantee of success. Some have bills to pay, fuel and food to buy, kids to clothe. If you have the disposable income to spend frivolously go ahead, remember though that not everyone is so lucky.

    100 pounds is more than it needs to cost to sort out the OPs issues. And, as was said, the OP himself stated he had £100 - to £150 to spend and the thread effectively advised him to spend less. If someone posted a thread asking the same with near zero budget, the advice would have been different.

    Besides, if you do have disposable income to spend frivolously (something that applies to all of us who have spent more than about £500 on bike and kit) why should you remember that not everyone is so lucky? If you want to have a guilt trip every time you spend money on something that isn't food an shelter, by all means do so but remember though it isn't compulsory! :wink:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • easyriderkel
    easyriderkel Posts: 8
    The setup iv purchased is approx £70 so i rekon thts a fine amount for what im getting. Luckily a friend is gona b fitting it all as ive never done it b4 but will b learning.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    easyriderkel wrote:
    The setup iv purchased is approx £70 so i rekon thts a fine amount for what im getting. Luckily a friend is gona b fitting it all as ive never done it b4 but will b learning.

    Sounds a bargain if it helps you on the hills, which in turn will motivate you to ride more (something that many forget) and get fitter and fitter. For £70 - if it makes the difference of making the hills bearable to ride then its a massive bargain.

    Once you get the parts on and set up, then we'd love an update on your progress i'm sure. :)

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