rear setup

easyriderkel

Hi im fairly new to road cycling. Iv recently purchased a specialized allez. Im finding im struggling on steep hill (uncomfortably struggling) iv bin advised that i can change the rear cassette. Currently mine has 25 teeth on 1st cog and want to go to something like 27 or 30 teeth. My local evans cycles told me ill need sram cassette (cant remember which 1) but they currently sell it for £19 reduced frm £35. Also will need a shimano 2300 long cage deraillieur which they dont sell and i also cant find on internet. Ill also need a sram 850 chain. Im just wondering if theres any1 on here tht could help me and tell me wether this will b the best setup. My budget will be £100-£150. Thank kel

team47b

not an answer to the question you asked but how long have you been cycling? Do you live somewhere reallllllly hilly? Are you reasonably fit? (that one means not too overweight)

The hills get easier with practice and you get faster, changing the way you approach a hill can help, sitting and higher cadence etc.

After a while you stop using the first one or two back cogs anyway.

What's on the front? 50-34 or 52-39?

easyriderkel

50/34 front and 12-25 rear. I am overweight about 17 half stone 8( and yes only been road riding approx 3mth. It doesnt matter where i go from my home i hit a hill. Even coming home is uphill i dont know how thts possible haha. I know itl get easier but was just thinking of a quick fix so i dont start to get disheartened because im really enjoying the riding. It would be my intention to switch back to the setup i have now when i becone a better rider.

Sprool

you can shop around and get shimano or sram cassette with a bigger range. Its very hilly where I live and I've got a triple ring front down to 30 teeth and an 11-28 cassette. I'm a lot fitter than I was 9 months ago but I'm still very grateful for that low gearing when I have 2.5 miles of 10 - 15% gradient to cycle up.

easyriderkel

Is there any components people can recommend?

Mikey23

Not an expert but changing to 11 28 would seem to be quite straightforward. I'm in Cornwall and although pretty experienced am often grateful for that bail out gear... My LBS would do for sure

easyriderkel

Am i correct in thinking i can go for any 8speed cassette any long cage deraillieur and a chain? Or will they have to b specific for my bike?

elderone

If you are running shimano 2300 you can put a 30-11 straight on,I have done this on 2 bikes and works perfect,nothing else needed.

easyriderkel

I havnt got the 2300 its just a medium cage @ minute. I cant find the 2300 anywhere haha

cougie

Easiest thing you can do is lose some weight through dieting. Exercise alone won't help you drop it.
You'll get stronger with practice at hills too - so if you do go ultra low - you'll not be needing those gears in a few months.

Keep up the cycling.

Jon_1976

So what's he supposed to whilst dieting, push his bike up the hills?

Jon_1976

As for cassettes, I had an 8 speed Allez with 2300 mechs. I swapped to the SRAM 11-28. Worked fine.

It is true, the more you cycle, you'll find yourself using higher gears but there are times where having that low gear is a life saver.

I hate it when people say just lose weight, like its an easy thing to do. I'd say buy the cassette you need/can afford and it'll keep on the bike longer/happier.

I've only been cycling 6 months. I'm not overweight and think I can climb quite well (not fast but I don't stop unless I'm dieing). I live near this http://app.strava.com/activities/64115121#1215241058 and find it hard even on 34/28. I'd die on a 25 and I'm not that unfit.

team47b

Jon_1976 wrote:

I hate it when people say just lose weight, like its an easy thing to do.

Losing weight is easy, it's eating less that's hard.

Hate me, hate me

dennisn

If you don't go higher than 28 teeth on the back I'm betting that your current rear D will handle it. A 30 tooth will most likely be too much. Key words "most likely".
Also needing a new chain is NOT a requirement unless your current one is worn out.

If you're interested in a bit more gearing without buying a new rear D you can buy a 33 tooth front chainring from TA Specialties. This will give you even more gearing at the low end. A 33 front ring and a 28 rear cog should get you up most hills.

Jon_1976

team47b wrote:

Jon_1976 wrote:

I hate it when people say just lose weight, like its an easy thing to do.

Losing weight is easy, it's eating less that's hard.

Hate me, hate me

Lol

Eat less? I just up the mileage 8)

smoggysteve

Its not about weight, its not about gears, its all about getting out on the bike and making the muscles in your legs work. Better technique and training build better muscles. Buying a lower gear does not make you a better climber, you get there but really slowly. where is the point in making it easy over getting out there and working? Do people go to the gym looking at cheaper ways to lift weights or do they just do the workout?

Mikey23

Nope, they just go to chat up the young ladies and drink sports drinks

supermurph09

Unless you are surrounded by Cat 3 climbs then I'd really advise just getting out more and more. I'm sure just about every rider on these boards who came late to cycling struggled to begin with but you get through it. I had to jump off the bike a few times, just made me more determined to crack it next time out.

As for your weight, I'd imagine that will start to all off as you do more miles.

schweiz

Sprool wrote:

....when I have 2.5 miles of 10 - 15% gradient to cycle up.

2.5 miles at between 10-15% :shock:

I'm still wondering where all these 1500-2000 ft climbs are in the UK! Last time I checked the highest point in England was a touch over 3200'!

dennisn

SmoggySteve wrote:

Its not about weight, its not about gears, its all about getting out on the bike and making the muscles in your legs work. Better technique and training build better muscles. Buying a lower gear does not make you a better climber, you get there but really slowly. where is the point in making it easy over getting out there and working? Do people go to the gym looking at cheaper ways to lift weights or do they just do the workout?

I disagree. it is about the weight, it is about gear selection, it's ALSO about doing the work(so you're sort of right).
A lower gear won't make you a better climber? What? Where did you get that idea? Try climbing a big mountain in your big ring. Then do it with the right gearing. I'm betting that you'll do a BETTER job of it and a bit quicker too.

Wirral_paul

dennisn wrote:

I disagree. it is about the weight, it is about gear selection, it's ALSO about doing the work(so you're sort of right).
A lower gear won't make you a better climber? What? Where did you get that idea? Try climbing a big mountain in your big ring. Then do it with the right gearing. I'm betting that you'll do a BETTER job of it and a bit quicker too.

Absolutely this ^^^^

To the OP - ignore the frankly ridiculous bravado about not "needing" to change your gears to get you up the hills. It really annoys me when people say "you dont need to change your gears - just lose weight". Well lets point out a few facts to them

1) You're 17.5st (ie a Clydesdale ) - and you arent going to lose 4 or 5st overnight
2) By the time you lose 4 or 5st, you'll have worn out your cassette and chain anyway - so fit something more suitable to allow you to get out and enjoy riding..... keep the 12-25 in your spares box and refit it when you become a 12st climbing god (or more likely when you find you dont need a 28 tooth sprocket where you live)
3) At 17.5st and being a new cyclist - you arent going to get up the hills. If it cant be done then it cant be done. Bravado doesnt make you a better climber. Gears dont make you a better climber either....... but they allow you to make the best of what you have and haul yourself over them at least
4) Gears were invented to make life easier on the muscles, and this is also true of your joints. Riding too high a gear is potentially going to lead to strains and various other injuries.
5) Its more enjoyable cycling when you have the gears to allow you to ride over a hill - and simply accept that you're going to be slower than the lightweight whippets.

Just remember - you're a Clydesdale and not a racehorse!!!

You should be able to find plenty of long cage 8 speed rear mechs - and with a 34/50 chainset, i wouldnt bother with a medium cage as the long will do the same job but give more capacity to go to as far as a 11-32 cassette if you really need it. Dont worry too much if it is sold as an "MTB" or "touring" rear mech - so long as it is compatable with your shifters

Schoie81

I agree with Wirral-Paul - ignore those telling you you just need to persevere and just try harder until you can get up the hills. I think what you are suggesting is a good and very sensible idea - make the gears easier for you now, and then change back when you get fitter and have lost a bit of weight. Its not like you're not saying you're changing it for good and simply taking the easy way out..

I too live in a hilly area, there are four different routes out of my village but every one means going up a hill - some easier hills than others. I started cycling 2 years ago on a MTB which has 27 gears going down as low as 22-34 and back then, i needed every one of the those gears to get up the hills. Over time, I started climbing those hills without using the biggest two or three gears on the cassette. I've just bought a road bike with a 50/34 and an 11-28 cassette and I can get up these hills on that (and a lot faster than on the MTB) - but if i'd bought this bike 2 years ago, I don't think i'd have stood a chance.

Change the gears on the bike to make life easier for you now, so that you don't lose interest in cycling and so that you can get up those hills and get some miles in. You'll get fitter and lighter (if you do enough miles and eat sensibly) over time and you too will stop needing those lowest gears - and then you can change the cassette back again.

supermurph09

OK, to those suggesting the buying of new cassettes........

What if the OP having shelled out money to buy a bike and kit simply cannot afford to buy new bits, what then? Sit and wait for a month, maybe 2 before getting the bits he needs to actually ride? Of course not, you go out, avoid the hills where possible, get some time in the saddle, get fitter and all of a sudden those hills are not so tough. If you have to get off the bike a few times so what? From my own experience climbing is more about technique than actual fitness for general climbs. To start with you either go too quickly or start in the wrong gear, over time you learn what gear to be in, when to get out the saddle and how hard you can push.

Losing weight is not easy to do, but if you are carrying excess atm, then cycling regularly (including pushing your bike up hills) will soon see you shedding a few pounds and feeling the benefit.

BigDaddyG

Wirral_Paul wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I disagree. it is about the weight, it is about gear selection, it's ALSO about doing the work(so you're sort of right).
A lower gear won't make you a better climber? What? Where did you get that idea? Try climbing a big mountain in your big ring. Then do it with the right gearing. I'm betting that you'll do a BETTER job of it and a bit quicker too.

Absolutely this ^^^^

To the OP - ignore the frankly ridiculous bravado about not "needing" to change your gears to get you up the hills. It really annoys me when people say "you dont need to change your gears - just lose weight". Well lets point out a few facts to them

1) You're 17.5st (ie a Clydesdale ) - and you arent going to lose 4 or 5st overnight
2) By the time you lose 4 or 5st, you'll have worn out your cassette and chain anyway - so fit something more suitable to allow you to get out and enjoy riding..... keep the 12-25 in your spares box and refit it when you become a 12st climbing god (or more likely when you find you dont need a 28 tooth sprocket where you live)
3) At 17.5st and being a new cyclist - you arent going to get up the hills. If it cant be done then it cant be done. Bravado doesnt make you a better climber. Gears dont make you a better climber either....... but they allow you to make the best of what you have and haul yourself over them at least
4) Gears were invented to make life easier on the muscles, and this is also true of your joints. Riding too high a gear is potentially going to lead to strains and various other injuries.
5) Its more enjoyable cycling when you have the gears to allow you to ride over a hill - and simply accept that you're going to be slower than the lightweight whippest.

Just remember - you're a Clydesdale and not a racehorse!!!

You should be able to find plenty of long cage 8 speed rear mechs - and with a 34/50 chainset, i wouldnt bother with a medium cage as the long will do the same job but give more capacity to go to as far as a 11-32 cassette if you really need it. Dont worry too much if it is sold as an "MTB" or "touring" rear mech - so long as it is compatable with your shifters

One of the most sensible posts I have ever read on here..........as a 18st 'Shire' I have a correctly geared bike for me and I manages almost all the passes in the Lakes - Only 2 left to do and I am sure most people will know what I am talking about but I still have 11 months left to train for 'The Fred' and they will be conquered by then

Schoie81

Supermurph09 wrote:

OK, to those suggesting the buying of new cassettes........

What if the OP having shelled out money to buy a bike and kit simply cannot afford to buy new bits, what then?

Kind of get your point, but the OP was the one suggesting going out buying a new cassette and has £100-150 to spend - so the "what if" isn't really relevant to this thread? If he/she has the money to spend and wants to make getting up the hills a possibility in the short term, then I think sorting some lower gears is a good idea. Certainly a better idea than ending up getting disillusioned with cycling and giving up.

Last week, for the first time in two years cycling, I had to stop and walk on three hills i'd not attempted before on a single ride. You're right, it does drive you to get better and get up the hill next time, but it spoilt my ride and can also put you off, especially if it happens on a lot of hills. We're out for a bike ride, not a walk!

smoggysteve

How about this. The OP buys a new cassette with a lower gear. Eventually after riding up hills he gets so he doesn't need to go into the bottom gear to get up them. He ends up using the gear ratio he had originally. Well that's money we'll spent. 15 20 years ago people were climbing the same hills on steel bikes with only 12 or so gears. Yes it's nice to make things easier by buying a lower gear to make it easier but where is the satisfaction in taking twice as long to climb up an average cat 4 ? If you want it easy and are not prepared to push yourself, why are you riding road bikes? Why not get a city bike to plod about on. This sport is about pushing your boundaries. Not cheating yourself. Disagree all you want, but I for one prefer to work to meet my aims, not buy my way out of a problem cos its a little bit too hard. Typical soft civvy attitude.

Wirral_paul

SmoggySteve wrote:

How about this. The OP buys a new cassette with a lower gear. Eventually after riding up hills he gets so he doesn't need to go into the bottom gear to get up them. He ends up using the gear ratio he had originally. Well that's money we'll spent. 15 20 years ago people were climbing the same hills on steel bikes with only 12 or so gears. Yes it's nice to make things easier by buying a lower gear to make it easier but where is the satisfaction in taking twice as long to climb up an average cat 4 ? If you want it easy and are not prepared to push yourself, why are you riding road bikes? Why not get a city bike to plod about on. This sport is about pushing your boundaries. Not cheating yourself. Disagree all you want, but I for one prefer to work to meet my aims, not buy my way out of a problem cos its a little bit too hard. Typical soft civvy attitude.

Who ever said its going to be "easy" on a lower gear? Making it "possible" to ride over a hill is the issue here - as the OP wont get any fitted by either walking or worse - giving up because its impossible!! If the OP buys a new cassette with a lower gear and gets fitter and lighter by riding up hills that he cant ride up now - and then gets to change back to the original 12-25 in 5000 miles time when he's worn the new cassette out (and saves money by already having the spare ready to go on) - then its cost him nothing extra. Money well spent? Damn right it is.

There's a world of difference between "pushing the boundaries" and "asking the impossible". Everyone has different boundaries and as a 17.5st beginner - pushing a 34-28 up a 10% hill might be a damn sight harder for the OP than you or I (SmoggySteve) riding up a 25% hill on a 39-25.

PS I will state here that I have a compact with 12-25 on my bike now - all set for riding up Ventoux after 650 miles in a week getting to it. I'm clearly a soft civvie too - but for some reason i like spinning a lower gear rather than slogging a big gear. Strangely i'm advancing up the front group on club rides in the Welsh hills - maybe everyone else is just getting twice as slow and i'm only going a little bit slower on my girly compact.

ballysmate

SmoggySteve wrote:

How about this. The OP buys a new cassette with a lower gear. Eventually after riding up hills he gets so he doesn't need to go into the bottom gear to get up them. He ends up using the gear ratio he had originally. Well that's money we'll spent. 15 20 years ago people were climbing the same hills on steel bikes with only 12 or so gears. Yes it's nice to make things easier by buying a lower gear to make it easier but where is the satisfaction in taking twice as long to climb up an average cat 4 ? If you want it easy and are not prepared to push yourself, why are you riding road bikes? Why not get a city bike to plod about on. This sport is about pushing your boundaries. Not cheating yourself. Disagree all you want, but I for one prefer to work to meet my aims, not buy my way out of a problem cos its a little bit too hard. Typical soft civvy attitude.

Well what a hero!
This soft civvie can only stand back and admire the man of steel that you are. I feel unworthy to share the same bandwidth.
People have posted advice on here how to help someone overcome what he regards as a problem. Sometimes it is better to go round an obstacle than fruitlessly trying to batter your way through, no?
Not everyone shares your outlook. I, for one.
To me, cycling is about enjoyment. Yes, I look to improve but the time I don't enjoy cycling, my bike will be on Ebay.

smoggysteve

Ballysmate wrote:

I feel unworthy to share the same bandwidth.

Be lucky you are allowed to share the same oxygen.

There's a world of difference between "pushing the boundaries" and "asking the impossible".

The guy is running a 25 low gear. Impossible??? I think the OP should be offended by that considering he says he struggles to get up not fails to. When you Fail then look at an alternative. If you succeed but suffer a bit. Well done. I truely say well done to the OP for managing it. Hopefully next time and the time after is less of a struggle. And since you didn't fail and persevered and got there that makes you better than someone downgrading themselves to a lower gear to do the same job again but slower. Yes you hit hills and you after 3 months to start changing things already is a bit daft and a waste of money. In another few months you will be flying up them hills with the same cassette on. If you keep at it and keep riding it will become easier. Believe in yourself. Don't resort to buying extra bits already. Trust me, you will get better without it.

Mindermast

Do get a new cassette! No point not doing something the hard way when you can't. Keep the old one, it might be useful later, when you are better. Of course, a good sportsman is not defined by his gear, but his gear makes him possible.

Ages ago, people didn't have gears, but they didn't start biking on steep hills, at least not climbing. And when Simmons and Altig climbed the Alpes, they did use 6-speed (I think), but it wasn't 11-12-13-14-15-16. There were less gears, but the difference from smallest to largest hasn't changed.

Oh, and just for fun, Cyclocrossing in the 50s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9_Fs1QtsOY

dennisn

SmoggySteve wrote:

Yes it's nice to make things easier by buying a lower gear to make it easier but where is the satisfaction in taking twice as long to climb up an average cat 4 ?

Why would having lower gearing mean it would take longer to climb a hill? Now I realize you most likely climb mountains on your 53-11 fixie but wouldn't you be quicker up that hill with a variety of gears for variations in the roads steepness? After all, it's not about who can push the biggest gear, it's about who gets to the top first. There are no trophies for "biggest gear used", "best trash talker", "most macho man", "best excuse", or "best bragging". It's all about being first up the hill.