What vitamins/supplements do you take?

Bwgan

Did my first audax yesterday (84 miles) and today my knees are a bit stiff and clicky. Just wondered who's taking what to try and give the old joints a helping hand? Been taking fish oil capsules and glucosamine - even though the health board down here says that there is no evidence for its use?!

pinarellokid

dont take anything myself as i dont know whats best. guess multi vitamins would be a good start

simon_e

pinarellokid wrote:

dont take anything myself as i dont know whats best. guess multi vitamins would be a good start

Multivitamins are a waste of money, and research I've read about suggests that fish oil capsules aren't as good as eating real fish some info at http://www.badscience.net/2010/06/the-r ... #more-1675

Some people have found Glucosamine and Chondroitin help with joints but there is some doubt about their benefits in general (e.g. http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... amine.html and http://www.camcheck.co.za/glucosamine-a ... n-no-help/)

imposter2.0

Assuming you are generally healthy and eat a normal balanced diet, you shouldn't (in principle) need 'supplements'.

buckles

I take 1,3,7-Trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6(3H,7H)-dione

mpatts

I take a daily multivitamin, belt and braces really.

markp80

I take fish oil, though not to make me clever. There seemed to me when I had a quick look, that there was some evidence of the benefits of DHA and EPA for heart health.

I also had a look at glucosamine for my knackered knees, but couldn't find any real evidence supporting it, so didn't bother.

Cheers,
MarkP

goffski

I take Glucosamine & Chondroitin, 1 tablet per day for my knees and have to say they've worked wonders for me. I use to have a few problems with my knees and these seemed to have sorted them out. I stopped taking them for a couple of months and they started to give me problems again.

It might all be in the mind but it seems to be working for me so will continue to take them.

Grill

None. Completely unnecessary.

Baby Trek

Cod liver oil and Berroca.

stevenb

Eat a balanced diet as said above.
Exercise.
Sleep well.
Drink plenty of water.
I never take supplements and in the past when I have Ihave felt no different.
Your body only uses what it needs from your provided nutrition and the rest is wasted in the toilet.

mmacavity

http://cultureodyssey.com/inspirations/ ... b-cyclists

SBezza

Grill wrote:

None. Completely unnecessary.

I wouldn't say that is totally true, really depends on your diet and the nutrients you might not get enough of in a normal diet.

I have fish oil tablets (I don't really like oily fish), and Vitamin D (as there is no way you can get enough in your diet or from the sun), so there is an example of where supplements might be very benefical

Grill

I'm vegan and would wager that I'm healthier than most despite my lack of omega 3 and b12. Balanced diet is all you need as your body will adapt to the rest.

SBezza

Grill wrote:

I'm vegan and would wager that I'm healthier than most despite my lack of omega 3 and b12. Balanced diet is all you need as your body will adapt to the rest.

Umm, depends of what you class as healthy I suppose. Some things the body needs, and can only get it from the diet. If you are deficient in certain vitamins and nutrients, I would suggest the body doesn't adapt, it is just poorly maintained, and yes you can live quite happily, though probably not as best you could , especially when you start damaging the body regularly with such things as training.

As for Vitamin D, it is a vitamin that has only just started being banded around as essential for health, especially long term health, bone density issues, immune system issues etc. It has always been essential for good health. I would suggest those that get regular colds etc start upping their intake of the stuff. For me despite very hard training since October last year and whilst others around me have had colds etc I have suffered nothing in the last 9 months. I put this down to the increase in Vitamin D as my diet hasn't really changed much, yet training volume has increased quite a bit as well as intensity, and yet I am healthier than ever.

Grill

600 mile training block this week and I manage to recover quicker than most

I used to take all sorts of supplements when I ate meat and dairy. B12, Fish Oil, L-Glutamine, all types of protein powders (whey in the morning, cassien at night), chromium, etc. I always had trouble with recovery and saw steep performance declines if I rode days back-to-back. I'm not saying how I do it is the best way, just the best way for me. Whatever deficiencies you may be able to pinpoint in the vegan diet, you'd have to agree from an overall view they are the healthiest demographic out there.

SBezza

You must stop comparing yourself with MOST, you have no idea how MOST other people recover . Just for reference I eat a lot of meat and dairy and can quite happily do back to back days of 5/6 hours plus, so although you have gone better (and that might just be increased fitness as well, though no doubt your diet change has helped you) it doesn't mean you are at optimal performance. The vitamins I mentioned are those which help general health in all honesty and are not magical potions, and did say not all vitamins and supplements can be obtained from a balanced diet. Some are completely not required, such as Chromium, zinc, magnesuium etc as you do get more than enough in a normal diet, others you just can't get enough and you are running at sub optimal if you are deficient IMO

Again not going into different diets, we all eat as WE see fit, but I highly doubt a vegan diet is any more healthy than other whole food diets to be honest. Again healthy can really mean anything can't it

Grill

Vegans have the lowest BMI of any dietary group (vegetarians second). Of course this could just be tubby yanks holding back all you omnivores

I can only compare myself with others I ride with, and I have the best recovery rate. Not to say it's ideal as I still think I could get better, but I think it's a fair judge of performance. The only reason I changed to a vegan diet was to improve my performance and it's worked. It's not for everyone but you won't see many lethargic veggies about!

SBezza

Again lowest BMI means very little, just as an aside, my wife was vegetarian for 30+ years, and as a result has very poor bone density, due to not getting enough nutrients over a very long period. Now it didn't help she is also gluten intolerant so was eating very poor vegetarian foods for her. She has been advised to take Calcium and Vitamin D tablets to help with bone density and she has always had a fair amount of dairy. So to say she was healthier than me is a complete mis-statement. Judge these diets over the very long term and see if there is a detriment to health . She now eats meat as otherwise her diet is just far too restrictive for a normal healthy lifestyle, and she is healthier in my eyes because of it, though having bone issues as such a young age is annoying, but hopefully in the long term she can reverse this.

I would say a lot of High Fat Low Carb athletes (not that I am one), have the very lowest in terms of body fat percentage, a far more realistic view of what is healthy possibly than BMI. You can pull supporting stats out from anywhere and make one diet seem better than others

Grill

Do you mean high protein low carb? All the muscle-bound folk round my old stomping grounds seem to embrace said diet. They're swole, but their endurance is laughable.

There are loads of conflicting studies regarding bone density, but the crux of the issue is diets have their advantages and disadvantages and you have to do what works best for you.

Have you seen the 60+ year old vegan couple that are running 365 marathons this year? Amazing stuff. Not to say you couldn't do it with meat (Eddie Izzard did a great job), but inspiring none the less.

SBezza

Grill wrote:

Do you mean high protein low carb? All the muscle-bound folk round my old stomping grounds seem to embrace said diet. They're swole, but their endurance is laughable.

I said athletes LOL, no I am talking about a lot of triathletes that use a High Fat and Low Carb, with fairly moderate protein, and tend to be very lean indeed, and these are Ironman triathletes as well, so endurance is not an issue. I eat a lowish carb diet, and get most of my carbs in my normal diet from fruit and veg (I personally avoid too much gluten, though not particularly gluten intolerant).

Anyone that runs multiple marathons is inspiring (if not a bit mental), not matter what they eat LOL. Running them wouldn't be any different with what you ate IMO, though for ultimate performance a restrictive diet, of what ever food group you choose to omit, might not be the best.

simon_e

SBezza wrote:

Again lowest BMI means very little, just as an aside, my wife was vegetarian for 30+ years, and as a result has very poor bone density, due to not getting enough nutrients over a very long period. Now it didn't help she is also gluten intolerant so was eating very poor vegetarian foods for her. She has been advised to take Calcium and Vitamin D tablets to help with bone density and she has always had a fair amount of dairy.

Just because cow's milk contains Calcium doesn't necessarily mean drinking it is useful to the human body. Some argue that dairy can in fact have a detrimental effect on bone density, though I don't know how strong the science backs up this point of view. The Milk Marketing Board/Dairy Council has bombarded us with adverts about milk for decades but that doesn't make it true. My meat eating, cow's milk consuming mother in-law has suffered with inadequate bone density for decades.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... ull-story/

A vegetarian diet isn't linked with poor bone density. And I don't see why being gluten intolerant makes her diet inadequate - there's no gluten in vegetables. Current thinking on the poor nutrient levels in processed grains, particularly wheat, then reducing wheat consumption may even be a good move for those who aren't coealic.

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2008/07 ... atory-diet

Grill wrote:

There are loads of conflicting studies regarding bone density, but the crux of the issue is diets have their advantages and disadvantages and you have to do what works best for you.

I agree to some extent, but how do we establish what's best? How long should you experiment/follow a diet before you find out what you've been doing is in fact detrimental?

Grill

Simon E wrote:

Grill wrote:

There are loads of conflicting studies regarding bone density, but the crux of the issue is diets have their advantages and disadvantages and you have to do what works best for you.

I agree to some extent, but how do we establish what's best? How long should you experiment/follow a diet before you find out what you've been doing is in fact detrimental?

I think the key is to know and listen to your body. I changed to a vegan diet because what I was doing wasn't working for me. This works, but if for some reason it becomes detrimental to my health and/or performance I'm open to change. Until that time comes, pass the fruit.

SBezza

Simon E wrote:

SBezza wrote:

A vegetarian diet isn't linked with poor bone density. And I don't see why being gluten intolerant makes her diet inadequate - there's no gluten in vegetables. Current thinking on the poor nutrient levels in processed grains, particularly wheat, then reducing wheat consumption may even be a good move for those who aren't coealic.

Well a vegetarian diet might not be linked to poor bone density on the whole (I will still saying removing complete food groups from a diet might not be the best option long term), but if that vegetarian also has a gluten intolerance which means very poor gut function, and that is how nutrients are absorbed into the body, it does mean you can be deficient in the nutrients the body needs to perform 100%. The fact that vegetables don't contain gluten shows you don't really have a true grasp of what a change in diet is required if you are a coealic and vegetarian. Most of the foods that are man made contain wheat gluten in some form or another and vegetarians do not eat fruit and veg exclusively. She has to check ingredients of everything she buys (unless it has a suitable for coealic written on the packaging), and the amount of food she can't eat is massive. Those foods that are coealic friendly generally tend to be very expensive as well.

For her being vegetarian, and gluten intolerant meant a very limited food choice, hence her choice (very reluctantly) to start eating some meat again to make sure she ate a good enough diet to combat her issues.

simon_e

Unfortunately many foods contain wheat gluten. Processors pump it into everything, it's 'padding' - making up bulk and calories cheaply but adding little or nutrient value - a good reason to reduce the proportion of processed food in your diet.

I am aware of the difficulties faced by coeliacs, having read plenty and I know a time trialling/running friend and a triathlete who both train and race with the condition. What works for your other half is the most important thing. Has she consulted a dietician or other expert that specialises in this area?

Why do you think you don't get enough vitamin D from sunlight and a healthy diet? NHS advice states that should be adequate for most people:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-m ... min-D.aspx
The page also states that "Excessive intake of vitamin D can also encourage calcium to be removed from bones".

Grill

My tanlines tell me I get more than enough vitamin D from the sun! :P

SBezza

Simon E wrote:

Unfortunately many foods contain wheat gluten. Processors pump it into everything, it's 'padding' - making up bulk and calories cheaply but adding little or nutrient value - a good reason to reduce the proportion of processed food in your diet.

I am aware of the difficulties faced by coeliacs, having read plenty and I know a time trialling/running friend and a triathlete who both train and race with the condition. What works for your other half is the most important thing. Has she consulted a dietician or other expert that specialises in this area?

Why do you think you don't get enough vitamin D from sunlight and a healthy diet? NHS advice states that should be adequate for most people:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-m ... min-D.aspx
The page also states that "Excessive intake of vitamin D can also encourage calcium to be removed from bones".

Yes, she has seen specialists, that's how she found out she was gluten intolerant.

Vitamin D, you can get enough from the sun, if you are out on your bike a lot like Grill is , though seriously a lot of people are deficient, and there have been studies that show even the HNS guidelines (not that I believe any Government literature on healthy limits/recommendations etc) are inadequate. What the HNS list is the bearest minimum for bone health, and not overall immune health. Now someone doing very little and getting a lot of sunshine might not have any issues, but start training hard/lots and your immune system will degrade quite a bit, and what you typically eat in a normal diet will not contain enough Vitamin D to keep levels elevated to support a healthy immune system. As a performance athlete I am not MOST people that the NHS is talking about .The HNS has prescribed tablets to my wife that contain 4 x the RDA of vitamin D as well as calcium, so even they don't go by their own guidelines it seems. Excessive amounts are in the region of 10,000 IU and above, and even on supplements you are unlikely to achieve that high a dosage. As for there suggestion of 1,000 IU as a safe limit, I think this is set way too low from what I have read from other medical sources.

Also look at the sources of Vitamin D in the diet, very few foods contain Vitamin D, and the amounts they contain are very small, eggs are the best choice, but then again the government tell us not to eat too many of those due to cholesterol don't they :roll:

Like anything else the government agencies set targets/limits based on a few people talking in a room, and what might be a fairly easy target to reach for MOST people. These limits/recommendations might not be the best however, especially for someone who is very physically active. The government recommend a huge percentage of the diet from grains and starchy carbs, 5 a day, fat gives you heart attacks, all of which are suspect recommendations in the least considering studies proving otherwise.

simon_e

Thanks Steve. I have read that the RDA figures are often those suggested to avoid malnutrition. Some feel that vit D deficiency is implicated in SAD so supplementation may work for 'winter blues' sufferers (a winter holiday in the Med would be even better but I can't see that being available on prescription!). This raises the question about what amount is ideal for the general population. I know the 5 a day recommendation for fruit and veg has been stated as being a bare minimum, more a realistic, simple goal than an ideal intake.

Government advice on eggs is bollocks IMHO, and now the traditional advice to avoid dietary cholesterol and sat.fats is being refuted by some nutritionists, who argue that the traditional food pyramid should be turned on its head. The growing popularity of what has been called palaeo diet (at least what I've observed on the internet) is interesting.