Bottom bracket life

fat_tail
fat_tail Posts: 786
edited November 2014 in Commuting chat
I took my bike in for a gear service to cure what I thought was a problem with alignment of the rear derailleur and the cassette and my LBS informed me that the problem was actually caused by a failure of the bottom bracket ! This is a a bi ke that is five months old with around 3000 km on it. Is this the sort of life span one should expect ? the BB is Shimano 4600. the BB on prior bike seemed to last much longer - that was SRAM and prior to that was the BB in Shimano 105 (5700 I think). Anyone had similar experience with what I consider to be a short BB life ? Do you think I can get the bike shop I bought it from to refund ?
Ridley Fenix SL
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Comments

  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    I've always had decent life out of Shimano BBs but SRAM GXP ones are made of cheese and should be avoided at all costs.

    I've replaced all mine with Hope where possible.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    Funny i've had the opposite with Shimano hollowtech 2 BB, i'm fact i've replaced more of those in the last 6 years than any other type of BB, the best so far has been the old skool campag square taper, still going strong after more than six years.
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Did they say what is actually wrong with the BB?
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  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    Does seem strange that a gear problem would be explained by a new external bottom bracket. Can't see how that could happen. That said, if its a bike without mudguards, used in all weather? 3000 km doesn't seem too unlikely.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,091
    itboffin wrote:
    Funny i've had the opposite with Shimano hollowtech 2 BB, i'm fact i've replaced more of those in the last 6 years than any other type of BB, the best so far has been the old skool campag square taper, still going strong after more than six years.
    Can't help thinking that external BB bearings are a dead end. I'm still on my second (square taper) BB after 16 years.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • fat_tail
    fat_tail Posts: 786
    UndercoverElephant wrote:
    Does seem strange that a gear problem would be explained by a new external bottom bracket. Can't see how that could happen. That said, if its a bike without mudguards, used in all weather? 3000 km doesn't seem too unlikely.

    well the "chain rub" has not gone away. went on a ride this morning and the "clicking" is still there - I think I am going to need a new chain and cassette. Yes no mudguards and used fairly heavily. I have also read elsewhere that the BB4600 is poor design. Have read some good stuff on Hope BB. I will be upgrading to one of those soon !

    I have the old BB and it does look rusty and feels stiff. There used to be a squeaking sound coming from it but I assume it was my cleats. The new BB is a hell of a lot smoother so I am sure they were honest. Also, given what they charged for the BB I am fairly confident that they are honest.
    Ridley Fenix SL
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    4600 BB are made of cheese.

    I'm just about to change mine for something better.
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • woodnut
    woodnut Posts: 562
    I'd agree with comments above about external bottom brackets. They don't last long. I'm on my third on the MTB and the first one on my Equilibrium only lasted about 1500miles. I replaced with a Tiagra as the shop were out of stock of 105 ones and that has lasted miles longer already.
    The good thing is you can pick up a mid range (105/Deore) one for about £18 and they are very easy to change.
    Incidentally, does anyone know the difference between a "Road" and a "MTB" bottom bracket? Apart from what is written on them :wink:
    Genesis I
    Genesis II
    Planet X
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    woodnut wrote:
    I'd agree with comments above about external bottom brackets. They don't last long. I'm on my third on the MTB and the first one on my Equilibrium only lasted about 1500miles. I replaced with a Tiagra as the shop were out of stock of 105 ones and that has lasted miles longer already.
    The good thing is you can pick up a mid range (105/Deore) one for about £18 and they are very easy to change.
    Incidentally, does anyone know the difference between a "Road" and a "MTB" bottom bracket? Apart from what is written on them :wink:
    Mtb cranks have a longer spindle, so the plastic tube is longer to match.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    UndercoverElephant wrote:
    woodnut wrote:
    I'd agree with comments above about external bottom brackets. They don't last long. I'm on my third on the MTB and the first one on my Equilibrium only lasted about 1500miles. I replaced with a Tiagra as the shop were out of stock of 105 ones and that has lasted miles longer already.
    The good thing is you can pick up a mid range (105/Deore) one for about £18 and they are very easy to change.
    Incidentally, does anyone know the difference between a "Road" and a "MTB" bottom bracket? Apart from what is written on them :wink:
    Mtb cranks have a longer spindle, so the plastic tube is longer to match.

    Congratulations, you know more than the mechanic at East Street Cycles in Walton on Thames.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    I only found out when I bought a 'road' Hope bottom bracket on eBay, and it didn't fit. Turned out the seller had a downhill bike, which has a longer spindle still, found it didn't fit and sold it.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    UndercoverElephant wrote:
    I only found out when I bought a 'road' Hope bottom bracket on eBay, and it didn't fit. Turned out the seller had a downhill bike, which has a longer spindle still, found it didn't fit and sold it.

    You can get the centre tubes from Merlin for a tenner. That's what I did after the mechanic fit and MTB one and tried to tell me I was lying about not having spacers on previously.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    I can recommend token tiramic bottom bracket, I really noticed the difference going from dura ace to token
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    Asprilla wrote:
    UndercoverElephant wrote:
    I only found out when I bought a 'road' Hope bottom bracket on eBay, and it didn't fit. Turned out the seller had a downhill bike, which has a longer spindle still, found it didn't fit and sold it.

    You can get the centre tubes from Merlin for a tenner. That's what I did after the mechanic fit and MTB one and tried to tell me I was lying about not having spacers on previously.

    That's what I did, the seller went halves with me. Lovely, smooth BB, and the fact you can but the tool to knock the bearings out and replace them means it'll last for ages.
    itboffin wrote:
    I can recommend token tiramic bottom bracket, I really noticed the difference going from dura ace to token

    The Hope was to replace a non-ceramic Token, which had finally given up after 10,000 miles *very* hard service. Excellent.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • Ouija
    Ouija Posts: 1,386
    woodnut wrote:
    Incidentally, does anyone know the difference between a "Road" and a "MTB" bottom bracket? Apart from what is written on them :wink:

    Mountain bike BB's are expected to sit 73mm apart so come with spacers (for 68mm shells), a longer connecting tube and the actual cups are narrower than a road BB. The road BB's have shorter connecting tube, no spacers and cups that are a few millimetres wider (so it won't work on a 73mm mountain bike and requires the use of 1mm spacers, instead of 1.5mm spacers on a 68mm wide mountain bike).
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Daft question (?) but I run a SRAM GXP crankset on one of my bikes, it is true to say the entry level GXP BB is made of cheese, have been through a few in <6,000 miles.

    Can I use any other external BB with a SRAM chainset?

    Also, I have a knackered Hope BB, a nice tarty red one. Is it worth investing in the hope tools to change my own bearings? @ £40 for bearings and tool, it could take a while to payback but then I get the tarty BB working again..
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    Hope to a GXP conversion kit (actually a pair of spacers) that you can fit to Hope BBs. I use them on two of my bikes. They are very good.

    You can get Hope bearings off eBay for a lot less than £40. I think I bought ceramic ones for around that.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • onemoresolo
    onemoresolo Posts: 372
    I'm going to buy one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trailbright-X ... 2572c65a15

    Similar to the Hope one but half the price - the bearings are also easily replaceable with higher quality ones down the line if you so wish. I will report back once received, fitted and tested.
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    I've had a couple of GXP BB's go at around 5,000 miles, but the one on my commuter (that never gets cleaned etc) is coming up to 10,000 miles and is just going now.
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
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  • onemoresolo
    onemoresolo Posts: 372
    An update on the Trailbright bottom bracket. I ordered the sealed stainless steel bearing version in gold. I've used it for 2 weeks riding in the Alps and first impressions are very positive. The unit is well machined and the seals are a tight fit compared to the GXP BB it replaced. Helpfully, they don't include any instructions for the GXP adapter which fits on the non-drive side.

    It's a top hat shape which presses into the internal side of the NDS cup. You then need to fit a small spacer (included) on both cups before screwing them into the BB shell. I didn't install the spacers at first and wondered why there was side to side play in the crank, with them installed it's perfect.
  • fat_tail
    fat_tail Posts: 786
    Bumping this thread back up

    The replacement BB is starting to give up the ghost and I am looking at replacing it.

    First, I was looking at the Hope Bottom Bracket with stainless steel bearings. They are £60 on wiggle which seems like a good price. Just wondering if anyone here has had any experience (good or bad) with it ? Any other bb I should consider for a road bike with Hollowtech II cranks ? Fitting seems to be straightforward or I am deluding myself ?
    Ridley Fenix SL
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    I killed a Hope BB fairly quickly but don't take that as a sign they are all like that.

    I still have it, as one advantage is the ability to buy the tools and swap the bearings yourself. Although the cost of this equates to buying several cheaper BB. It is shiny red though and matches my hubs so one day I'll buy the tools and fix it...

    Fitting is also easy (with the right tools).
  • pitchshifter
    pitchshifter Posts: 1,476
    Life of external cup bottom brackets will depend on how well the cranks are fitted. If the cranks are put on too tight they will go through the bearings rapidly.

    My friend has just ruined his FSA bottom bracket and I offered to fit him a new one. Anyone had any experience with these? Is it a normal hollowtech tool to remove? And do you have to replace it with an FSA bb or will a Shimano work?
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    FSA BB's are shoot.

    they are normal hollowtech tools to remove.
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • craker
    craker Posts: 1,739
    FSA MegaExo is compatible with Shimano Hollowtech (apologies if I've misspelt brand names etc), same tool same crank size anyway.

    I've got a MegaExo without the central sleeve thing (I thought it was packaging). I don't seem to be suffering ghastly BB life issues (2 1/2 years old lets say 1500 miles but I've really no idea). What's the sleeve for?
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    rjsterry wrote:
    itboffin wrote:
    Funny i've had the opposite with Shimano hollowtech 2 BB, i'm fact i've replaced more of those in the last 6 years than any other type of BB, the best so far has been the old skool campag square taper, still going strong after more than six years.
    Can't help thinking that external BB bearings are a dead end. I'm still on my second (square taper) BB after 16 years.

    I'm going against the grain. I used to chew through the low end Campy square taper BBs like they were make of corn flakes. The Chorus ones lasted better, I admit.

    I'm now finding the SRAM GXP BBs pretty good. Though I do tend to keep an eye on the bearings (ceramic, natch) and lube them (gnurk) with the special lube (gnurk gnurk) which I have to squirt at them (fnar fnar) regularly.

    Have a special Rotor BBright to GXP BB on Bike 3 which I am hopeful should last a fecking long time; aided, I hope by the fact that Bike 3 is unlikely ever to see wet conditions.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • onemoresolo
    onemoresolo Posts: 372
    fat_tail wrote:
    Bumping this thread back up

    The replacement BB is starting to give up the ghost and I am looking at replacing it.

    First, I was looking at the Hope Bottom Bracket with stainless steel bearings. They are £60 on wiggle which seems like a good price. Just wondering if anyone here has had any experience (good or bad) with it ? Any other bb I should consider for a road bike with Hollowtech II cranks ? Fitting seems to be straightforward or I am deluding myself ?

    The post above yours. :) Pretty much the Hope BB but about half the price.
  • fat_tail
    fat_tail Posts: 786
    onemoresolo wrote:
    fat_tail wrote:
    Bumping this thread back up

    The replacement BB is starting to give up the ghost and I am looking at replacing it.

    First, I was looking at the Hope Bottom Bracket with stainless steel bearings. They are £60 on wiggle which seems like a good price. Just wondering if anyone here has had any experience (good or bad) with it ? Any other bb I should consider for a road bike with Hollowtech II cranks ? Fitting seems to be straightforward or I am deluding myself ?

    The post above yours. :) Pretty much the Hope BB but about half the price.


    thanks - I bottled it this time and went for Dura-Ace bb for £25 from Merlin because my BB was definitely not happy on the ride home last night.

    Hopefully, the Dura Ace might last a bit longer than the cheddar cheese Tiagra
    Ridley Fenix SL
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    I thought this was going to be another pop at us BB forumites, disappointed, I was looking forward to another good 'discussion' with Greg and DDD :wink:
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    arran77 wrote:
    I thought this was going to be another pop at us BB forumites, disappointed, I was looking forward to another good 'discussion' with Greg and DDD :wink:


    No, that thread would have been 'Bottom Bracket Pond Life'

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