Any feelings/ experience of fasted exercise.

tim_wand

I am 6 foot and 90 kg, At 42 years of age. Recently on return from Holiday I have decided I want to drop 10Kg minimum.

I ve found on club rides that whilst I can hold a wheel on the front. I just cannot climb anymore. This coincides with a move from North Yorkshire to the flat lands of Lincolnshire/Notts and the birth of our first child in the last 4 years.


Cut a long story short. I have been dropping little one at school . and then going out and ripping 2 hours hard riding as fast as I can.

I don't bother eating anything. and set off just on a Green Tea that I ve drank about a hour before the get go.

I don't even take any fluid on the bike with me.

I ve dropped 5 kg in a week, but find on my return I tend to slug about a litre of chocolate milkshake.

Is there a better more scientific way to do this? Should I be having a good carb laiden meal at night. (I cant usually eat a main meal before 2000 because of work) and go to bed about 2200/2300.

Is there something better to recover with, which don't cost a fortune? and should I be taking in fluids or something on the ride?

I want to achieve my aim of losing 10 Kg and build some specific hill sets into my training.

I do find however that unless I starve myself and train on an empty tank my metabolism just wont allow me to drop weight.

Grill

I don't eat on rides under 60-70 miles and don't drink nearly enough. Works for me. That's what you have to do, what works for you.

I'd eat more carbs at night. If you're worried about weight then go with low-gi carbs like sweet potatoes, quinoa, or brown rice. For recovery try to stick to skim milk or at least semi-skim, but leave the chocolate in there as you need the fast release carbs.

turnerjohn

tim wand wrote:

I am 6 foot and 90 kg, At 42 years of age. Recently on return from Holiday I have decided I want to drop 10Kg minimum.

I ve found on club rides that whilst I can hold a wheel on the front. I just cannot climb anymore. This coincides with a move from North Yorkshire to the flat lands of Lincolnshire/Notts and the birth of our first child in the last 4 years.


Cut a long story short. I have been dropping little one at school . and then going out and ripping 2 hours hard riding as fast as I can.

I don't bother eating anything. and set off just on a Green Tea that I ve drank about a hour before the get go.

I don't even take any fluid on the bike with me.

I ve dropped 5 kg in a week, but find on my return I tend to slug about a litre of chocolate milkshake.

Is there a better more scientific way to do this? Should I be having a good carb laiden meal at night. (I cant usually eat a main meal before 2000 because of work) and go to bed about 2200/2300.

Is there something better to recover with, which don't cost a fortune? and should I be taking in fluids or something on the ride?

I want to achieve my aim of losing 10 Kg and build some specific hill sets into my training.

I do find however that unless I starve myself and train on an empty tank my metabolism just wont allow me to drop weight.

Your doing the classic wrong way to diet !
Your body will actually try to conserve fat (ie NOT burn it) as you starving it !
Your also not fuelling properly so there is no way your be able to keep a good tempo as your run out of glysogene (spelling sorry!) in your muscles. ...I doubt you could properly "rip" a hour ride with no water....thats plan daft.
A litre of chocolate milk is insanely high in calories and wont do you any favours in the fat content either.
Back to basics.....take at least water (pinch of salt to replace what you sweat out) and take some energy bars to nibble on....dont have to go crazy tho. Fuel up a little before you go out....porridge is perfect and low G.I.
When you get back have something sensible...eggs on toast for example...complex carb with protein which your body will need. I take a small recovery drink as I find that helps.
Eat properly, don't starve yourself and your find the weight will come off and stay off.....yo-yo / starving diets simply dont work !!!

Grill

Food for only two hours? Silly. Glycogen stores will last at least that long.

You can easily rip an hour with no food and water, most TTers do it on 25s. As long as you start hydrated and fueled it shouldn't be an issue. I've done a 100 mile TT on one bottle. Whilst not enough my time wasn't too shabby on a difficult course.

turnerjohn

Grill wrote:

Food for only two hours? Silly. Glycogen stores will last at least that long.

You can easily rip an hour with no food and water, most TTers do it on 25s. As long as you start hydrated and fueled it shouldn't be an issue. I've done a 100 mile TT on one bottle. Whilst not enough my time wasn't too shabby on a difficult course.

OP said 2hrs hard riding with no drink...that can't be good for anyone ! A TT is different from a training ride esp as the OT is trying to loose weight....body needs water to burn fat so his not doing himself any favours.

I normally find performance drops after 1 3/4 to 2hr mark if I don't eat / drink something....all depends on fuelling before but everyone is different and weather conditions / heat play a big part as well.

Grill

Agree that water is necessary in training, even if it's only for a few sips. Also spot on when it comes to heat.

It's pretty easy to see what the maximum amount of water you need is. Weigh yourself before a ride, ride one hour, towel off and weigh yourself post ride. (1 litre is equal to 1 kilo)

Barteos

Reduce the volume, increase the intensity, throw some intervals in. Go out riding every day even if it's just half an hour. Always take some carbs with proteins in immediately after any long or intense ride.
It can be e.g. milky sugary coffee, milk shake etc... If you have blender just get two bananas, glass of milk and optionally a bit of peanut butter.
Eat more fish and lean meat, don't spare on olive oil. Cut the carbs slightly.
Starving (and dehydrating) yourself during and after the ride is the worst thing you can do and will get you absolutely nowhere. You won't be able to ride at decent intensity and your recovery will be compromised.

Loosing weight takes time. If you rush it, you fitness will suffer more than needs to. You body is equally keen to burn your muscles as much as fat for fuel...

Grill

Barteos wrote:

Reduce the volume, increase the intensity, throw some intervals in. Go out riding every day even if it's just half an hour. Get some carbs with proteins in immediately after any long or intense ride.
It can be e.g. milky sugary coffee, milk shake etc... If you have blender just get two bananas, glass of milk and optionally a bit of peanut butter.
Eat more fish and lean meat, don't spare on olive oil. Cut the carbs slightly.
Starving (and dehydrating) yourself during and after the ride is the worst thing you can do and will get you absolutely nowhere. You won't be able to ride at decent intensity and your recovery will be compromised.

It may be good fat, but it's still fat. Moderation should still be taken with olive oil (especially when you consider that pretty much none of it is pure as it's heavily cut).

You do realise that pros train fasted all the time to drop weight yet their performance is still there. Not saying that it's the only way, but it's certainly effective for some.

Barteos

Grill wrote:

Barteos wrote:

Reduce the volume, increase the intensity, throw some intervals in. Go out riding every day even if it's just half an hour. Get some carbs with proteins in immediately after any long or intense ride.
It can be e.g. milky sugary coffee, milk shake etc... If you have blender just get two bananas, glass of milk and optionally a bit of peanut butter.
Eat more fish and lean meat, don't spare on olive oil. Cut the carbs slightly.
Starving (and dehydrating) yourself during and after the ride is the worst thing you can do and will get you absolutely nowhere. You won't be able to ride at decent intensity and your recovery will be compromised.

It may be good fat, but it's still fat. Moderation should still be taken with olive oil (especially when you consider that pretty much none of it is pure as it's heavily cut).

You do realise that pros train fasted all the time to drop weight yet their performance is still there. Not saying that it's the only way, but it's certainly effective for some.

What pros do, eat, ride and wear is irrelevant from the point of view of an average rider.

Starving may work for some people just like acupuncture, hypnosis, Atkins diet or exotic herbs from a dodgy website, but the vast majority of cyclists loose their weight naturally by riding their bikes hard/often enough and eating slightly less.

chrisaonabike

5 kg is 11 lb. 1 lb of fat corresponds to 3500 calories.

To lose 11 pounds of fat in a week you'd have to create a calorie deficit of 38500, even assuming that you wouldn't burn any muscle as well which you would.

So unless you were previously eating about 7000 calories a day, the 5 kg you lost in a week is not fat.

A couple of hours riding without food isn't too hard, providing you don't then stuff your face afterwards. I find if I do that first thing in the morning I can get back, drink some coffee and not feel hungry till lunchtime.

No point at all doing it without water as well.

ilovemytinbred

Nothing wrong with fasted riding, I found it the most effective way of keeping the weight down. I found that what worked for me was higher end endurance pace (not bimbling) without really going into the red very often. On the other hand I find it very difficult to keep weight off at the moment as I am doing a lot of threshold and sweetspot training where I have to eat a lot more to recover well.

when was riding fasted: For 5 days a week I did not eat before riding at 4pm. Did 60 miles on 4 of those days and just ate when I got home. On the weekend I did about 150 miles where ate normally (breakfast etc.) and during rides and hammered it. I was as strong as an ox on Sunday and quick. While I was prob only 90% over durations less than an hour I was bullet proof over longer durations. Im not a talented rider, very mediocre but I did a 100 mile tt in 3.59 while I was doing some rides fasted so it did not hurt me too much.

In response to the OP- I would not personally hammer it for 2 hours regularly without eating but that depends on how often you are riding, i am sure it would be ok if you only ride a couple of times a week. Otherwise I would worry about long term recovery. But it depends what you define as hard. I drink lots of water when I ride and a bit of salt.
For recovery I like milk. Lots of milk.

SBezza

2 Hours without food is OK, in the winter I used to regularly do 1 or 2 hour turbo sessions before breakfast, it was a good way to lose body fat.

As for fluid intake though, don't be so stupid. Make sure you are hydrated during a hard 2 hour ride. When you get back and are pretty well dehydrated, especially after a night of getting dehydrated in your sleep, it will play havoc with recovery. Drink water on your rides and keep well hydrated, recovery will be better and weight loss will likely be better. All you do by restricting fluids is cause the body more stress, and performance improvements will subsequently be less.

Your current weight loss will be a lot of water, as you are unlikely to be able to rehydrate the body fully before your next ride. Also without water you can't store carbs as glycogen, so you have less and less glycogen stored which will mean after a while you may suffer with a degrading of performance. As mentioned above, losing body fat (and that is what you really want to lose) takes time, and can't really be rushed.

Also DO NOT cut out fat, it is an essential nutrient the body needs. Ideally it should provide at least 20% of your calorific intake, want to lose weight, cut down on the carbs, especially processed carbs. Losing weight is a 24/7 process not just a 2 hour ride without food and then eat crap foods afterwards because you are starving and have cravings.

Grill

Again, different for everyone. I get almost 85% of my calories from carbs and not only do I have no trouble with weight, but I'd wager that I recover quicker than most. As I've said the OP needs to find what works for him as macros can be quite personal.

SBezza

Grill wrote:

Again, different for everyone. I get almost 85% of my calories from carbs and not only do I have no trouble with weight, but I'd wager that I recover quicker than most. As I've said the OP needs to find what works for him as macros can be quite personal.

Each to there own, but as a lot of nutrients your body needs are fat soluable, very little fat in the diet can mean defiencies. The guy has admitted he is overweight, perhaps not eating loads of processed carbs might help him lose the weight he wants to without resorting to drastic measures. 5kg in a week, is mainly water and that is not surprising given 2 hour hard rides without water.

You have no idea of how others recover so you statement about recovery is neither here nor there to be honest, best recovery comes from getting the right mix of macro nutrients into the body, telling someone to go easy on fat when you have no knowledge of their intake is pretty pointless IMO.

You are right though in that what the body needs is highly individual, the guy might even suffer from food intolerances and cutting those foods out will help massively with recovery and weight loss.

styxd

Fasted riding is a good way to get your body to work more efficiently.

But weightloss really comes down to calories out > calories in. Obviously you need a balanced diet with carbs/fats/proteins.

tim_wand

Varied and interesting responses. Thanks guys.

I ve found losing weight since turning 40 difficult and have plateaued any where between 85-90 Kgs,

I m not actually unhappy with my shape and I think at times I use my Mass as an excuse for being a Poor Climber , when In fact its probably more down to the fact that I tend to avoid hill sessions or hilly rides.

Its the old adage of practice what your not good at, and probably 2 hour rides at Moderate to high intensity on fairly flat courses is never going to improve my climbing.

I ll definitely start to consider hydration on my rides. But I do feel that training before breakfast reaps me more benefits than not, I just balls it up with the recovery, because I haven't got much time to do it properly before I have to head to work.

I think the fact that I ve got 2 hours plus available to myself in the morning , means I ride for 2 hours because its such a luxury.

Defo going to mix the sessions/ intensity up and put in some specific hill sets.

markp80

Interesting article from BikeRadar which touches on fasted riding -

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/how-to-burn-fat-better-on-the-bike-1065/
Cheers,
MarkP

styxd

Your post ride recovery sounds ok, carbs and protein is what's recommended and that's what chocolate milk is. How many calories are in a litre of the stuff though??? That's what you have to concentrate on if you want to lose weight!

jibberjim

If you are eating a meal the night before, then you are not "fasted" by riding in the morning before breakfast - you burn very few calories other than "fat" when you sleep - a bit of liver glycogen, and even that will be topped up if you're still digesting the meal.

You're just riding before eating - there may be value in this, but it's not from being fasted (different insulin and other hormones etc. leading to different response and less glucose etc. in the blood from the meal of course so different sources may be used - nothing's ever shown that makes a material difference though)

I rarely eat before a morning ride (indeed I rarely breakfast at all) and have no issues with intensity or surviving rides, obviously if I'm riding for a longer time at a higher intensity I'll need to eat while I ride to provide supplementary carbs to the glycogen. Also as I'm relatively fit it's likely that my glycogen stores are considerably higher than an unfit persons, so the less fit you are, the more likely you are to need to eat.

SBezza

I think hydration is the major issue to be honest, you don't need an energy drink, but water will not cause any real weight gain, and in fact may help lead to weightloss. Chocolate Milk isn't too bad, but it does need to be used in moderation, it does contain a fair few calories, and the protein is slow release, so not as good as having a whey protein shake for example with a banana after a ride, or even make your own protein smoothie with some normal milk.

If you are trying to lose weight you need to really track the other foods you eat as well, and try and eat whole foods rather than processed foods, this will see greater weightloss than pre breakfast rides to be honest. These help massively but without proper control at all other times it can be self defeating.

For what it is worth, I was once 115kg and now am 70kg, so I know how difficult it is to lose weight, but done steadily and by eating a proper wholesome diet it is achievable and doing it steadily will mean it is more likely to come off and stay off, you need to see it as a lifestyle change IMO. Plan what you are going to eat in advance and balance the exercise you do with food intake, so that the deficit is never too great.

SBezza

jibberjim wrote:

If you are eating a meal the night before, then you are not "fasted" by riding in the morning before breakfast - you burn very few calories other than "fat" when you sleep - a bit of liver glycogen, and even that will be topped up if you're still digesting the meal.

Jim you are riding "fasted" as you have not eaten for 12 hours previously, yes your glycogen stores might be full,(although if training hard on a daily basis highly unlikely) but this isn't what is meant by fasted. Training whilst depleted of glycogen is a whole different ball game.

Also a meal will generally be digested within a 2-4 hour window, and blood glucose levels returned to normal well before you get out of bed. In fact some people might have very low blood glucose levels and suffer trying to do anything without a meal before exercise

tim_wand

MarkP80 wrote:

Interesting article from BikeRadar which touches on fasted riding -

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/how-to-burn-fat-better-on-the-bike-1065/
Cheers,
MarkP

Both interesting and useful. Other than over doing for Carbs for delivery, I might be getting somewhere with this.