Altercation with a Scooter rider
Comments
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arran77 wrote:bernithebiker wrote:mattv wrote:Are you sure he didn't just let of the throttle? These bikes have an auto gearbox and very basic controls. Hell, he even did what you are TAUGHT in a car: slow down if you have a small gap and tailgating. He shouldn't have got aggressive, but you were in the wrong mate.
Er no, smoke came off his back tyre. He knew exactly what he was doing. The only person at risk of serious physical harm here was me. He didn't strike me as the Mother Teresa kind of guy, more like one of the Kray twins....
But you were the one to put yourself in that position by riding like you did so I don't see a lot to complain about :roll:
So can we conclude then, that if you're out driving, cycling, whatever, and someone is driving far too close to you, you have the right to a) try your damndest to make them crash into you, whatever the consequences for them or you, b) do a U-turn and try to instigate another collision with the perpetrator, and c) threaten physical violence and make 'death' threats?
Am I the only one here to have ever drafted another motor vehicle? I'm not condoning it, and yes, it's reckless, but it's not exactly 1st degree murder is it?0 -
presumably said yoof could at any point looked in his mirrors and seen that he hadn't dropped you, or are mirrors not compulsory on scooters nowadays?
masssive overreaction by said yoof and by some of the holier than thou brigade on the forum.Bianchi Infinito CV
Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Ultegra
Brompton S Type
Carrera Vengeance Ultimate Ltd
Gary Fisher Aquila '98
Front half of a Viking Saratoga Tandem0 -
Blimey. Apart from the last couple of sensible replies, everyone's off the scale on the blame factor. Self-righteous doesn't do it justice.
Our man sits behind another vehicle, the driver of which is totally oblivious and is going in the same direction and at the same speed. He's not hanging onto the back of the scooter, or doing anything that might cause the youth the slightest problem yet for lord knows what reason when the tosspot on the scooter realises that he's not alone his reaction is to generate as much danger as possible by grabbing the brakes and locking up his rear wheel, knowing that the cyclist is right behind him. If pasty-faced scooter youth can't deal with the surprise of finding a cyclist who he thought he'd passed and left for dead a while back without turning a potential danger into an actual danger he really ought to stay off the road until he's grown up a bit. The cyclist isn't the one who created actual danger; he created a potential for there to be a dangerous situation. It was scooty boy who created the danger by over-reacting like the big spoilt baby he appears to be.
Drafting vehicles isn't dangerous if you can see that the road is clear and there are no obstacles. What is dangerous is the numpty creating danger where none existed by grabbing the anchors like that.0 -
If the pedder had been going along, not looking in his mirrors, then looks back and see's a car 4 feet off his back wheel is he within his rights to slam on the brakes and make a scene?
You shouldn't have drafted, but similarly, the pedder should be aware of his surroundings to the extent that he shouldn't be amazed if he turns round and see's another vehicle of any descrition behind him whilst he is riding down the public highway. If he's pedding along with no idea of what is behind him I would suggest he would be more of a danger to himself and other road users than our friend Mr Cyclist.0 -
Cyclist using the roads are subject to adhering to the highway code for cyclist.
Has anybody ever heard of a cyclist being prosecuted for breaching these regulations?0 -
The OP just wanted to show off on here. Pitiful little thread.I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...0
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bernithebiker wrote:arran77 wrote:bernithebiker wrote:mattv wrote:Are you sure he didn't just let of the throttle? These bikes have an auto gearbox and very basic controls. Hell, he even did what you are TAUGHT in a car: slow down if you have a small gap and tailgating. He shouldn't have got aggressive, but you were in the wrong mate.
Er no, smoke came off his back tyre. He knew exactly what he was doing. The only person at risk of serious physical harm here was me. He didn't strike me as the Mother Teresa kind of guy, more like one of the Kray twins....
But you were the one to put yourself in that position by riding like you did so I don't see a lot to complain about :roll:
So can we conclude then, that if you're out driving, cycling, whatever, and someone is driving far too close to you, you have the right to a) try your damndest to make them crash into you, whatever the consequences for them or you, b) do a U-turn and try to instigate another collision with the perpetrator, and c) threaten physical violence and make 'death' threats?
Am I the only one here to have ever drafted another motor vehicle? I'm not condoning it, and yes, it's reckless, but it's not exactly 1st degree murder is it?
No none of that is acceptable and two wrongs don't make a right, like you say you did something that lots of other riders will have done and it all turned out a bit different than you expected, no one got hurt, lesson learnt, move on
"Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity"
seanoconn0 -
dmclite-3.0 wrote:The OP just wanted to show off on here. Pitiful little thread.
Not really. The scooter wasn't particularly quick, there's nothing in my little anecdote that any half decent cyclist couldn't do. The fact that I left the other 2 behind doesn't mean I'm quicker than them (I'm not) they just decided to do the sensible thing....
I only thought it was an interesting story in that the aggressive and violent reaction of the yoof was over the top, and a reflection on the lack of respect and violent nature of many youngsters these days.0 -
I think the OP is getting unfairly harsh comments from self righteous fellow cyclist who seem to be claiming they would and have never done anything of the like whilst out on a bike!!!
Berni - i'm with you on this one!0 -
You think your behaviour was no big deal? - but
Try giving some random guy in the street the fright of his life and see what happens. You were lucky he was on a scooter.bernithebiker wrote:...and gets the fright of his life.
I'm sure most of us draft vehicles from time to time but you have to be smart about how you do it. Try to understand why someone on a scooter might feel differently to a tractor or bus driver.
If you have not been invited to get that close you don't get to bitch when he brakes and nearly crashes you. That is YOUR risk.
Even if you think his response was OTT you brought it on yourself. This is surprising bernie, you usually come across as reasonable character.0 -
Tom Dean wrote:You think your behaviour was no big deal? - but
Try giving some random guy in the street the fright of his life and see what happens. You were lucky he was on a scooter.bernithebiker wrote:...and gets the fright of his life.
I'm sure most of us draft vehicles from time to time but you have to be smart about how you do it. Try to understand why someone on a scooter might feel differently to a tractor or bus driver.
If you have not been invited to get that close you don't get to ***** when he brakes and nearly crashes you. That is YOUR risk.
Even if you think his response was OTT you brought it on yourself. This is surprising bernie, you usually come across as reasonable character.
'Fright of his life' - artistic licence perhaps? In reality, I'm sure he's seen more frightening things, perhaps 'a big surprise' would have been a better choice of words.
And if someone gives me a fright by jumping out at me, my instant reaction is not to violently attack them, call me old-fashioned perhaps......
I'm not sure why I'm being unreasonable - my irresponsible bravado initiated this whole scenario, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to keep their emotions under control and not react aggressively, otherwise London rush-hour would quickly resemble Helmland Province......0 -
bernithebiker wrote:dmclite-3.0 wrote:The OP just wanted to show off on here. Pitiful little thread.
Not really. The scooter wasn't particularly quick, there's nothing in my little anecdote that any half decent cyclist couldn't do. The fact that I left the other 2 behind doesn't mean I'm quicker than them (I'm not) they just decided to do the sensible thing....
I only thought it was an interesting story in that the aggressive and violent reaction of the yoof was over the top, and a reflection on the lack of respect and violent nature of many youngsters these days.
Alright Victor Meldrew, calm down. have a nice cup of tea and listen to The archers, you'll feel much better.
I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...0 -
mattv wrote:... Hell, he even did what you are TAUGHT in a car: slow down if you have a small gap and tailgating...
Is that right, you are taught to do that, if you are being tailgated?
This is a tricky subject, and I have shied away from commenting in the past; I think you are all being a bit hard on the OP, but I have noticed similar reactions in the past on these forums.
Didn't scooter boy have mirrors? And scooter boy's reactions are completely out of line. If the police had witnessed it all, how would they have treated the two parties? Someone else posted about getting a bollocking for tailgating a truck, would scooter boy have been spoken to about his actions?
I used to tailgate buses and trucks in traffic when I was younger, and not once ever did I feel in any danger of going into the back of one. If you can't outbreak one of them you shouldn't be on a bike. I don't do it these days as I am older and wiser and would like the rest of the road-using public to not see me as a "bloody cyclist".0 -
A better description may be 'an intimidating invasion of personal space' and when he noticed this you grinned at him...bernithebiker wrote:'Fright of his life' - artistic licence perhaps? In reality, I'm sure he's seen more frightening things, perhaps 'a big surprise' would have been a better choice of words.
...and he gave you a bit of intimidation in return, not really a violent attack.bernithebiker wrote:And if someone gives me a fright by jumping out at me, my instant reaction is not to violently attack them, call me old-fashioned perhaps......
It sounds like you reacted to his reaction though..
You had no justification to 'flare up' in the first place.bernithebiker wrote:I flare up again,0 -
Tom Dean wrote:A better description may be 'an intimidating invasion of personal space'
Are you a lawyer?!Tom Dean wrote:when he noticed this you grinned at him...
Smiled, actually. I had no reason to believe he would freak out so much.Tom Dean wrote:he gave you a bit of intimidation in return, not really a violent attack.
Er, he started the whole intimidation thing, and when you are stationary and see a scooter coming directly for you at 40km/h, with the yoof drawing his finger across his throat, sorry, but for me, that's a violent attack.Tom Dean wrote:had no justification to 'flare up' in the first place.
In the first place, I didn't, he did.0 -
I don't think anyone is saying that his reaction was acceptable or justified however most are suggesting that your behaviour was not appropriate given the circumstances.
If he had gone further and actually physically assaulted you he probably would have been charged and found guilty but I wouldn't like to have been you trying to justify why you rode so closely behind him in, what could be seen as, a menacing fashion. A good lawyer could have made mincemeat of you in court.#
Accept that you contribute signifcantly to the altercation and move on.
And don't do it again.0 -
In Laaaandan we call these dernys.0
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iPete wrote:In Laaaandan we call these dernys.
I was just doing what I seen that Chris Hoy doing on the telly your honour, honest!!"Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity"
seanoconn0 -
Navrig wrote:most are suggesting that your behaviour was not appropriate given the circumstances.
MY behaviour was not appropriate? Er, hello, he tried to run me down!Navrig wrote:If he had gone further and actually physically assaulted you he probably would have been charged and found guilty but I wouldn't like to have been you trying to justify why you rode so closely behind him in, what could be seen as, a menacing fashion. A good lawyer could have made mincemeat of you in court.#
So had I not stepped out of the way in time, and he HAD hit me at 40km/h, and I was on a life support in hospital, his lawyer would have made mincemeat of me? Good lawyer.
OK agreed.Navrig wrote:Accept that you contribute signifcantly to the altercation and move on.
Maybe not with a scooter, but is a tractor OK?Navrig wrote:And don't do it again.0 -
bernithebiker wrote:
Maybe not with a scooter, but is a tractor OK?Navrig wrote:And don't do it again.
Yes as long as it's not got a plough on the back, I reckon that could make a proper mess if he brake tests you when he catches you draughting him
"Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity"
seanoconn0 -
bernithebiker wrote:Navrig wrote:most are suggesting that your behaviour was not appropriate given the circumstances.
MY behaviour was not appropriate? Er, hello, he tried to run me down!Navrig wrote:If he had gone further and actually physically assaulted you he probably would have been charged and found guilty but I wouldn't like to have been you trying to justify why you rode so closely behind him in, what could be seen as, a menacing fashion. A good lawyer could have made mincemeat of you in court.#
So had I not stepped out of the way in time, and he HAD hit me at 40km/h, and I was on a life support in hospital, his lawyer would have made mincemeat of me? Good lawyer.
OK agreed.Navrig wrote:Accept that you contribute signifcantly to the altercation and move on.
Maybe not with a scooter, but is a tractor OK?Navrig wrote:And don't do it again.
Are you familiar with the phrase "cause and effect"?
The streetwise translation would be "who started it?"
Tractor? - that's up to you but keep in mind that if you draft any powered vehicle it is unlikely that you will cause the occupants any physical damage if they have to stop quicker than you. However if you impale yourself on the vehicle you are likely to cause them severe mental trauma. That doesn't seem fair to me. How do you see it?
Not much more to be said.
Except is bernithebiker the new Speed King?
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I only thought it was an interesting story in that the aggressive and violent reaction of the yoof was over the top, and a reflection on the lack of respect and violent nature of many youngsters these days.
This is quite possibly the most ironic comment I've ever read. A lack of respect? You didn't show him much respect did you?
Let's tar all 'yoof' with the same brush. Christ.0 -
Navrig wrote:
Are you familiar with the phrase "cause and effect"?
The streetwise translation would be "who started it?"
So if you spill my pint down the pub, is it OK if I shove the broken glass in your face?Navrig wrote:? - that's up to you but keep in mind that if you draft any powered vehicle it is unlikely that you will cause the occupants any physical damage if they have to stop quicker than you. However if you impale yourself on the vehicle you are likely to cause them severe mental trauma. That doesn't seem fair to me. How do you see it?
Not much more to be said.
Except is bernithebiker the new Speed King?
Try not to choke on your coffee, but I used to hang on to Routemaster buses 20 years ago when I commuted into London, mostly going up Park Lane. I have since drafted a variety of machinery, including combine harvesters, HGV's and various tractors. Been OK so far, I'd like to think a 6kg bike can stop faster than a 5 tonne tractor. Irresponsible? Yes. Is it fun? Yes. On a recent club ride, 10 of us drafted a tractor at 40km/h for 8km, so it's not just me that's a bit nuts.
And I would think that if I did impale myself on the back of a tractor, the farmer would pick me off and think 'Stupid git'.
No idea who Speed King is.0 -
bernithebiker wrote:Navrig wrote:
Are you familiar with the phrase "cause and effect"?
The streetwise translation would be "who started it?"
So if you spill my pint down the pub, is it OK if I shove the broken glass in your face?Navrig wrote:? - that's up to you but keep in mind that if you draft any powered vehicle it is unlikely that you will cause the occupants any physical damage if they have to stop quicker than you. However if you impale yourself on the vehicle you are likely to cause them severe mental trauma. That doesn't seem fair to me. How do you see it?
Not much more to be said.
Except is bernithebiker the new Speed King?
Try not to choke on your coffee, but I used to hang on to Routemaster buses 20 years ago when I commuted into London, mostly going up Park Lane. I have since drafted a variety of machinery, including combine harvesters, HGV's and various tractors. Been OK so far, I'd like to think a 6kg bike can stop faster than a 5 tonne tractor. Irresponsible? Yes. Is it fun? Yes. On a recent club ride, 10 of us drafted a tractor at 40km/h for 8km, so it's not just me that's a bit nuts.
And I would think that if I did impale myself on the back of a tractor, the farmer would pick me off and think 'Stupid git'.
No idea who Speed King is.
Glass in face? No of course it is not all right however if you spilled my pint intentionally I would be entitled to get upset. Giving somone driving a motorised vehicle, no matter how slowly, a fright is a tad more serious than spilling a pint. His reaction was wrong but that doesn't make yours right.
Coffee? - I don't drink coffee as it raises my HR and that is risky.
Hanging off busses etc - See my comment about coffee.
Farmer? - You don't know how he would react but it is unfair to risk putting him in that situation. He might take it all very seriously and be adversley affected. Just as you didn't know how the scooter rider would react.....
Speed King = viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=126922600 -
so there you go... anglo french relationships set back many years. I blame the EU and that goes back to Thatcher....0
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Navrig wrote:Speed King = viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12692260
Well I'm not going to read through 21 pages, but it seems to be a bloke with a frame/seatpost/Wiggle problem, so don't really get the connection....unless of course you think he's a tw&t, and by inference, me too, but hey, you're entitled to your opinion.0 -
Mikey23 wrote:so there you go... anglo french relationships set back many years. I blame the EU and that goes back to Thatcher....
You'll be pleased to hear that not a word of English passed my lips, so the Queen's reputation is still squeaky clean!0 -
bernithebiker wrote:Navrig wrote:Speed King = viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12692260
Well I'm not going to read through 21 pages, but it seems to be a bloke with a frame/seatpost/Wiggle problem, so don't really get the connection....unless of course you think he's a tw&t, and by inference, me too, but hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
You don't have to read 21 pages. The first 2 sets the scene:
OP: Posts what he thinks is a relatively inane post.
Others then question his motive, attitude, opinion.
The thread changes tone and the OP is left to look a tad silly....
Then the OP tries to rectify the situation: viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=127188930
