Altercation with a Scooter rider

bernithebiker

So there we were, the 3 of us cruising a 100km training ride, when a scooter with a yooof on it comes past us; as it's a bit downhill, I sprint to catch it and sit on his wheel, and the other 2 join me.

Then the hill levels off and starts going up, about 3%. Have to start working harder to stay with the scooter as he's sticking at about 40km/h and the slope isn't getting any easier; I'm pretty much flat out near the top, the other two are way behind.

Then the rider looks behind and sees me and gets the fright of his life. I smile at him - thought he would find it amusing. Seconds later he brakes hard, locks up back wheel and I just miss him, I think maybe my pedal clipped the m/bike slightly.

I shout in protest and he shouts back at me, various hand gestures ensue and he rides off. Then does a violent U-turn and comes back at me on a Kamikaze run, just missing me. I flare up again, he makes out he has some kind of weapon on him, but he won't get off the bike. Meanwhile, my 2 mates have arrived and a line of traffic which almost squashes the ASBO, so he then takes off.

So it could be argued I shouldn't have drafted him, but it was just a bit of fun, on an open road, v.little traffic, and his reaction was somewhat OTT - oh well!

AchillesLeftKnee

You're all very naughty people. Go stand in the corner and think about what you've done

LegendLust

bernithebiker wrote:

So there we were, the 3 of us cruising a 100km training ride, when a scooter with a yooof on it comes past us; as it's a bit downhill, I sprint to catch it and sit on his wheel, and the other 2 join me.

Then the hill levels off and starts going up, about 3%. Have to start working harder to stay with the scooter as he's sticking at about 40km/h and the slope isn't getting any easier; I'm pretty much flat out near the top, the other two are way behind.

Then the rider looks behind and sees me and gets the fright of his life. I smile at him - thought he would find it amusing. Seconds later he brakes hard, locks up back wheel and I just miss him, I think maybe my pedal clipped the m/bike slightly.

I shout in protest and he shouts back at me, various hand gestures ensue and he rides off. Then does a violent U-turn and comes back at me on a Kamikaze run, just missing me. I flare up again, he makes out he has some kind of weapon on him, but he won't get off the bike. Meanwhile, my 2 mates have arrived and a line of traffic which almost squashes the ASBO, so he then takes off.

So it could be argued I shouldn't have drafted him, but it was just a bit of fun, on an open road, v.little traffic, and his reaction was somewhat OTT - oh well!

Tell you what, you try thinking about this scenario from his point of view.

ct8282

LegendLust wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

So there we were, the 3 of us cruising a 100km training ride, when a scooter with a yooof on it comes past us; as it's a bit downhill, I sprint to catch it and sit on his wheel, and the other 2 join me.

Then the hill levels off and starts going up, about 3%. Have to start working harder to stay with the scooter as he's sticking at about 40km/h and the slope isn't getting any easier; I'm pretty much flat out near the top, the other two are way behind.

Then the rider looks behind and sees me and gets the fright of his life. I smile at him - thought he would find it amusing. Seconds later he brakes hard, locks up back wheel and I just miss him, I think maybe my pedal clipped the m/bike slightly.

I shout in protest and he shouts back at me, various hand gestures ensue and he rides off. Then does a violent U-turn and comes back at me on a Kamikaze run, just missing me. I flare up again, he makes out he has some kind of weapon on him, but he won't get off the bike. Meanwhile, my 2 mates have arrived and a line of traffic which almost squashes the ASBO, so he then takes off.

So it could be argued I shouldn't have drafted him, but it was just a bit of fun, on an open road, v.little traffic, and his reaction was somewhat OTT - oh well!

Tell you what, you try thinking about this scenario from his point of view.

+1. Not condoning his aggression at all (although it sounds like you were giving as good as you got) but in fairness you started the whole episode by carrying out what in fact is quite a dangerous course of action for both you and the scooter rider.

Drafting with fellow cyclists is different because they usually know you're there, and in many cases have experience if riding in groups, but to just creep up on him like that is not on. If he spooked and then crashed breaking his arm for example then what??

diy

So you tailgate an inexperienced rider (guessing he was on a 50cc with L plates) and wonder why he gets pissed off when you run in to the back of him. How much do you think it would have cost you if your actions had caused him to bin his bike or worse?

monkimark

I think what cyclists call drafting, motorists call tailgating.

Slamming on his brakes was a terrible reaction to it but if I was riding my motorbike and suddenly found a bunch of cyclists hugging my rear wheel, I wouldn't be happy about it (I would probably hit the gas rather than the brake)

bernithebiker

Well he wasn't inexperienced, he handled his bike quite capably. I've drafted tractors, etc. before and it's all been in good humour. It could have gone down well - him laughing it off then leaving me behind. On a clear open road, there was no great danger.

What really pissed me off was that he had clearly been to some kind of 'gangsta' school - he was drawing his finger across his throat, and doing finger gun firing at me, etc. He thought he was well hard, but wasn't about to try and prove it......anyway, I'll stick to tractors next time.

sancho_uk

Agree with most of the above im afraid.. Yes his reaction was well over the top, but as you clearly state in your write up you gave him a fright.

An inexperienced rider (which although you say he handled his bike well he would of been being on a 50cc scooter), who didnt know you were there could very easily have dumped his bike by jumping.

You live and learn and all that shizzle..

mattv

Are you sure he didn't just let of the throttle? These bikes have an auto gearbox and very basic controls. Hell, he even did what you are TAUGHT in a car: slow down if you have a small gap and tailgating. He shouldn't have got aggressive, but you were in the wrong mate.

fast as fupp

you should have knocked his puny hairdryer over and torched it

happy to help!

bernithebiker

mattv wrote:

Are you sure he didn't just let of the throttle? These bikes have an auto gearbox and very basic controls. Hell, he even did what you are TAUGHT in a car: slow down if you have a small gap and tailgating. He shouldn't have got aggressive, but you were in the wrong mate.

Er no, smoke came off his back tyre. He knew exactly what he was doing. The only person at risk of serious physical harm here was me. He didn't strike me as the Mother Teresa kind of guy, more like one of the Kray twins....

ct8282

Irrelevant. You were in the wrong.

LegendLust

bernithebiker wrote:

Well he wasn't inexperienced, he handled his bike quite capably. I've drafted tractors, etc. before and it's all been in good humour. It could have gone down well - him laughing it off then leaving me behind. On a clear open road, there was no great danger.

What really pissed me off was that he had clearly been to some kind of 'gangsta' school - he was drawing his finger across his throat, and doing finger gun firing at me, etc. He thought he was well hard, but wasn't about to try and prove it......anyway, I'll stick to tractors next time.

WTF has that got to do with anything?

You were in the wrong and you caused the whole mess in the first place, so grow some balls and take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming the altercation on others.

If you want respect on the roads then treat the road and other road users with respect.

But I suspect you posting this was just one big willy waving exercise.

bernithebiker

LegendLust wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Well he wasn't inexperienced, he handled his bike quite capably. I've drafted tractors, etc. before and it's all been in good humour. It could have gone down well - him laughing it off then leaving me behind. On a clear open road, there was no great danger.

What really pissed me off was that he had clearly been to some kind of 'gangsta' school - he was drawing his finger across his throat, and doing finger gun firing at me, etc. He thought he was well hard, but wasn't about to try and prove it......anyway, I'll stick to tractors next time.

WTF has that got to do with anything?

You were in the wrong and you caused the whole mess in the first place, so grow some balls and take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming the altercation on others.

If you want respect on the roads then treat the road and other road users with respect.

But I suspect you posting this was just one big willy waving exercise.

Jesus, chill out dude! It's just an anecdote. I'm not claiming to be in the right.

I just think he was an unpleasant little sh!t who didn't need to react like that.

Have you ever ridden too close to a car or lorry? Does the driver have the right to slam on his brakes to try and get you to crash into him?

diy

bernithebiker wrote:

Have you ever ridden too close to a car or lorry? Does the driver have the right to slam on his brakes to try and get you to crash into him?

Depends if he wants you to buy him a new scooter or not. But he has the right to stop for whatever reason he chooses. If you are too close its your fault.

At the end of the day he was just minding his own business. His reaction was probably because you startled him and his adrenalin took over.

LegendLust

bernithebiker wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Well he wasn't inexperienced, he handled his bike quite capably. I've drafted tractors, etc. before and it's all been in good humour. It could have gone down well - him laughing it off then leaving me behind. On a clear open road, there was no great danger.

What really pissed me off was that he had clearly been to some kind of 'gangsta' school - he was drawing his finger across his throat, and doing finger gun firing at me, etc. He thought he was well hard, but wasn't about to try and prove it......anyway, I'll stick to tractors next time.

WTF has that got to do with anything?

You were in the wrong and you caused the whole mess in the first place, so grow some balls and take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming the altercation on others.

If you want respect on the roads then treat the road and other road users with respect.

But I suspect you posting this was just one big willy waving exercise.

Jesus, chill out dude! It's just an anecdote. I'm not claiming to be in the right.

I just think he was an unpleasant little sh!t who didn't need to react like that.

Have you ever ridden too close to a car or lorry? Does the driver have the right to slam on his brakes to try and get you to crash into him?

Out of choice? No I've got a brain.

chris1967cycling

A long time ago I remember jumping on the back of a cement lorry going up the A6 from stockport.

Sat behind him for miles thinking what a winner when I heard Police sirens from behind.

Copper had been following me, following the lorry for miles. Pulled the lorry and me over and gave me a right b***ocking

Lorry driver was proper unimpressed and if the copper hadn't of been there would have probably smacked me !!!

As I said a long time ago.................

nunowoolmez

As a copper I would say your riding was endangering both yourself & the moped rider. You didn't know who was under the helmet & it may well have been someone on their first ride or been very raw. They may have panicked, swerved badly & stacked it which would have been nasty for all concerned. I leave moped riders & bikers well alone just because they are as exposed as us in reality but using more powerful machines. Greater the power greater the danger. Vehicles with 4 wheels are more stable (obviously) & the risk reward ratio is less.

He was wrong to come at you but this demonstrates his anger at what happened. I'm sure there was an element of macho alpha maleness at work too tho. I would have just held my hands & offered an apology.

Not trying to preach, just trying to offer some unbiased reason.

Glad nobody was harmed too! :-)

diy

nunowoolmez wrote:

Greater the power greater the danger.

Not actually true, even though it may sound logical.

http://speedcamerareport.co.uk/dft_moto ... idents.pdf
see page 27.

bernithebiker

nunowoolmez wrote:

As a copper I would say your riding was endangering both yourself & the moped rider. You didn't know who was under the helmet & it may well have been someone on their first ride or been very raw. They may have panicked, swerved badly & stacked it which would have been nasty for all concerned. I leave moped riders & bikers well alone just because they are as exposed as us in reality but using more powerful machines. Greater the power greater the danger. Vehicles with 4 wheels are more stable (obviously) & the risk reward ratio is less.

He was wrong to come at you but this demonstrates his anger at what happened. I'm sure there was an element of macho alpha maleness at work too tho. I would have just held my hands & offered an apology.

Not trying to preach, just trying to offer some unbiased reason.

Glad nobody was harmed too! :-)

All fair points. It wasn't a very safe thing to do, but I don't think he was in any danger off falling off. I was just about to pull off as the old HR was sky high, so if he'd looked round 5 seconds later, it would have been a non-issue.

My crime; breaking the Highway code, riding too close.

His crime; threatening me with violent physical aggression and trying to knock me off my bicycle with a motor vehicle.

I kind of think the two are unbalanced.

john1967

your a knob. ride your bike and leave other road users alone.

diy

could be a bit more than that:

Road Traffic Act 1988 Sec 28 & 31
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/28
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/31

Careca

nunowoolmez wrote:

As a copper I would...

As a copper, I would have beaten you within an inch of your life, and then framed the youth on the scooter. All in a days work :twisted:

notnot

bernithebiker wrote:

Have you ever ridden too close to a car or lorry? Does the driver have the right to slam on his brakes to try and get you to crash into him?

I try to keep far enough back that I've got a good chance of stopping in time if the driver in front needs to slam the brakes on for an emergency stop (or just does something stupid, or if a biker hits a big pothole...). The rider's reaction sounds OTT, but if you do something unwise on the road then people can get annoyed.

ct8282

Ignore this post

peat

berk clashes with other berk.

THIS IS THE NEEEWWWWSSS.

kettrinboy

This whole scenario would never happen to me as i could,nt even ride fast enough to keep up with a scooter rider.

MichaelW

I think the fundamental problem is not that you drafted the scooter rider, but that you disrespected him. There is, somewhere, a whole list of actions whereby you can disrespect a young gentleman and he may, in return, demand satisfaction. I shall have to add "drafting" top that list.

Mikey23

i assume this is not a troll post...the guys reaction is well off limits but it sounds like you and your mates were being a tad irresponsible

Mikey23

oops, def not a troll post... so youve been upsetting the local yoof again... good ride but no strava segments?

arran77

bernithebiker wrote:

mattv wrote:

Are you sure he didn't just let of the throttle? These bikes have an auto gearbox and very basic controls. Hell, he even did what you are TAUGHT in a car: slow down if you have a small gap and tailgating. He shouldn't have got aggressive, but you were in the wrong mate.

Er no, smoke came off his back tyre. He knew exactly what he was doing. The only person at risk of serious physical harm here was me. He didn't strike me as the Mother Teresa kind of guy, more like one of the Kray twins....

But you were the one to put yourself in that position by riding like you did so I don't see a lot to complain about :roll: