Knee pain

Red_Logic
Red_Logic Posts: 71
edited June 2013 in Training, fitness and health
Been getting knee pain sort of in the middle of both knees equally when pedalling with high torque. I know its related to position and namely saddle height but iv raised the saddle as high as it can go without my hips swaying and it still persists.........will i get used to it or what should i change?

Comments

  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Pedal with lower torque.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • Red_Logic
    Red_Logic Posts: 71
    If it helps i usually ride at 80-90 rpm and am very fit cardiovascular wise.....its always the knee pain that limits me on the bike....il try riding at 100 rpm and see if that helps
  • buckles
    buckles Posts: 694
    How do you know it's saddle height and not saddle setback?
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  • Red_Logic
    Red_Logic Posts: 71
    it may be setback....iv checked that my knee is above the pedal spindle though
  • buckles
    buckles Posts: 694
    forget knee above spindle, it's a redundant concept.
    What about knee over the pedal axle?

    Most fitting "systems" specify that some part of your knee be directly over the pedal axle at some alignment of the crank, usually with the pedal forward and the crank horizontal. This is pure nonsense. Imagine two riders, almost identical, but one rider's knees are 1 inch lower than the other's. In other words, the thigh bones of one rider are 1 inch longer than the other, and his lower legs are 1 inch shorter. Everything else about these two riders is identical, including overall height, torso length, arm length and weight. If you position the saddle such that the knee is directly over the pedal axle, the rider with the shorter thighs must have his saddle a little under 1 inch further forward of the other rider. It would be exactly 1 inch if his thigh was horizontal at that pedal position, which it isn't likely to be.

    But with the saddle positioned forward, the rider with shorter thighs now has more weight that must be supported by his arms, all because of this arbitrary rule about having your knee over the pedal axle. This makes no sense. What matters is your weight distribution fore and aft, and that's determined by the fore-aft position of the saddle relative to the cranks.

    http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

    Check https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bl ... oad-bikes/ also
    25% off your first MyProtein order: sign up via https://www.myprotein.com/referrals.lis ... EE-R29Y&li or use my referral code LEE-R29Y
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    Buckles wrote:
    forget knee above spindle, it's a redundant concept.
    What about knee over the pedal axle?

    Most fitting "systems" specify that some part of your knee be directly over the pedal axle at some alignment of the crank, usually with the pedal forward and the crank horizontal. This is pure nonsense. Imagine two riders, almost identical, but one rider's knees are 1 inch lower than the other's. In other words, the thigh bones of one rider are 1 inch longer than the other, and his lower legs are 1 inch shorter. Everything else about these two riders is identical, including overall height, torso length, arm length and weight. If you position the saddle such that the knee is directly over the pedal axle, the rider with the shorter thighs must have his saddle a little under 1 inch further forward of the other rider. It would be exactly 1 inch if his thigh was horizontal at that pedal position, which it isn't likely to be.

    But with the saddle positioned forward, the rider with shorter thighs now has more weight that must be supported by his arms, all because of this arbitrary rule about having your knee over the pedal axle. This makes no sense. What matters is your weight distribution fore and aft, and that's determined by the fore-aft position of the saddle relative to the cranks.

    http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

    Check https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bl ... oad-bikes/ also

    Knee over the pedals has worked for years and years, the only reason 'experts' say it doesn't work is so the can make more money by doing stupid bike fits. Dont get suckered into people who can talk (or write) a lot.

    (Take away cleat issues) How can the knee in relation to the pedal not be the most important factor, when you have KNEE pain.

    I had knee pain similar to the OP, did a simple KOTP fit by moving my saddle forward and hey presto knee pain went and stayed away.
  • buckles
    buckles Posts: 694
    dwanes wrote:
    Knee over the pedals has worked for years and years, the only reason 'experts' say it doesn't work is so the can make more money by doing stupid bike fits. Dont get suckered into people who can talk (or write) a lot.

    (Take away cleat issues) How can the knee in relation to the pedal not be the most important factor, when you have KNEE pain.

    I had knee pain similar to the OP, did a simple KOTP fit by moving my saddle forward and hey presto knee pain went and stayed away.
    Clearly didn't work for the OP
    Red_Logic wrote:
    it may be setback....iv checked that my knee is above the pedal spindle though

    Read...
    25% off your first MyProtein order: sign up via https://www.myprotein.com/referrals.lis ... EE-R29Y&li or use my referral code LEE-R29Y
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    Buckles wrote:
    dwanes wrote:
    Knee over the pedals has worked for years and years, the only reason 'experts' say it doesn't work is so the can make more money by doing stupid bike fits. Dont get suckered into people who can talk (or write) a lot.

    (Take away cleat issues) How can the knee in relation to the pedal not be the most important factor, when you have KNEE pain.

    I had knee pain similar to the OP, did a simple KOTP fit by moving my saddle forward and hey presto knee pain went and stayed away.
    Clearly didn't work for the OP
    Red_Logic wrote:
    it may be setback....iv checked that my knee is above the pedal spindle though

    Read...

    Read it first time. I was not saying it will sort it, there are other factors such as cleats crank arm length. What I am saying is that KOTP can not be discarded as a concept.
  • denniskwok
    denniskwok Posts: 339
    Your knee pain might have nothing to do with saddle position and everything to do with pedal cleat positioning.
  • moscowflyer
    moscowflyer Posts: 540
    denniskwok wrote:
    Your knee pain might have nothing to do with saddle position and everything to do with pedal cleat positioning.

    This. Any time I've ever had knee issues it's been down to cleat positioning.
  • Red_Logic
    Red_Logic Posts: 71
    it medial knee pain though....i.e. its not at either side of the knees in particular but dead centre....ive moved my saddle back and my cleats back so that the ball of my foot is just behind the pedal axle and so that my knees are slightly behind the pedal spindle.....this seems to have helped....im also going to start doing knee specific strecthes....
    all in all im optimistic that i may have beat this thing! time will tell though....

    Thanks everyone for the advice....

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