fixie/single speed for training?

ianbar

im sure i have heard people use fixies/single speed bike for training. can anyone shed some more light on this and the kinds of rides that you would do on these bikes etc?

imposter2.0

if you only race on one gear, then a s/s will be ideal.

TommyEss

Derny paced track work will help you get your cadence up.

cyco2

I built a s/s freewheel to save wearing out my race bike and to see if I could replicate the feel I get on a turbo when doing intervals and sprints. It cost me nothing to make from some old bike bits and I am totally impressed with it. I have found the disapline of have to produce speed with a higher cadence has been good for me. Because in the past I was always tempted in to using a higher gear. I use a flat 30 mile course to train on and can beat my geared bike times, strange that. Normally I ride 170mm cranks but for this bike I fitted 165mm cranks which helps me to keep a higher cadence. I find the bike enables me to get a really good cardio/vascular workout which also helps with climbing and the odd cx/mtb race I do.
So for me its been a good experience and for others you should try it before knocking it.
Also, for those who think they wouldn't be able to ride fast without all the cost of the latest gear I would highly recommend starting out on an inexpensive s/s.

phil_smeeth

I've just bought a single speed bike. It's got a flip flop back wheel on it so I can use fixed or single speed. It doesn't have any brakes at the moment so I thought I'd ride it fixed so I have some control over slowing down.

I went out yesterday for a quick test ride and it was brilliant. I went for a very slight undulating route which was my biggest downfall. On a slight downhill it got ahead of me and there was a moment when I thought I was going to hit the deck.

I can see how using a single speed would help your training. I'm going to put brakes on my bike and switch it to single speed as I want to ride mine round town. I think having to push just 1 gear must help build power in some way.

imposter2.0

phil_smeeth wrote:

I think having to push just 1 gear must help build power in some way.

You might need to think again. And going out on the roads on a bike with no brakes is incredibly stupid (not to mention illegal).

Monty Dog

Riding fixed gear with no brakes on the road is an accident waiting to happen.
Riding fixed gear does help with cadence and core strength - particularly if you have to climb lots of hills over-geared and likewise, long descents mean you have to develop a fast, smooth cadence.
I use a fixed gear bike on rollers and for intervals - doing flat-out sprints from a standing start really works all the muscle groups and likewise hill repeats force you to work hard.

ianbar

thanks for your replies, i had been thinking that it might be useful for winter training so maybe i could hit a nice hour route, there are a couple of good little routes like that. the fact im stuck in gear would make me work harder, plus i thought it would be nice for a bit of variety too.

RiderUk

I should be taking delivery of my custom single speed fixed gear bike very soon.
Based on an italian track frame, with a flip flop hub, front brake with classic C shape track handle bars.
One of my routes is very flat and ideal for my first ride.
Will let you know the outcome.

iPete

Rode FG this winter (and still am mostly) and my fitness has definitely benefited.

When you ride 20 miles fixed, you ride 20 miles.
When you commit to a certain speed, you commit, legs full of acid or not you ain't got the option to stop pedaling.
When there is a head wind you attack, when the wind is on your back you spin those legs.
Maintenance is easy and you can leave it caped in road shit all winter if you want.



Disclaimer: I ride in a pretty flat part of the world.

imposter2.0

iPete wrote:

Rode FG this winter (and still am mostly) and my fitness has definitely benefited.

If you only ride fixed, how do you know you would not have seen the same improvements on a different bike?

iPete

Imposter wrote:

iPete wrote:

Rode FG this winter (and still am mostly) and my fitness has definitely benefited.

If you only ride fixed, how do you know you would not have seen the same improvements on a different bike?

Maybe I'd be fitter if I had a bike with a power meter, biggers gears, had a bike fit, drank beetroot juice, listened to Celine Dion or put cement in my tyres. Care to undertake a bit of cloning?

All I know is I ride a fixed bike, it is red & my fitness is at an all time high.

I also ride it because it puts a big fat smile on my face, can be stripped and re-built with ease, can get caped it sh*t and never skips a gear or drops the chain. The getting fitter bit is a bonus.

RiderUk

The fixed gear single speed scene as I have recently found out has quite a following.
Plenty of info on the net and Youtube.
The simplicity and minimalistic look along with easier maintenance is appealing to many.
Classic steel frames, horizontal rear facing dropouts with many shops setup to sell parts designed for single speed bikes for self build projects.The choice of parts is over whelming to say the least.

diplodicus

iPete wrote:

Imposter wrote:

iPete wrote:

Rode FG this winter (and still am mostly) and my fitness has definitely benefited.

If you only ride fixed, how do you know you would not have seen the same improvements on a different bike?

Maybe I'd be fitter if I had a bike with a power meter, biggers gears, had a bike fit, drank beetroot juice, listened to Celine Dion or put cement in my tyres. Care to undertake a bit of cloning?

All I know is I ride a fixed bike, it is red & my fitness is at an all time high.

I also ride it because it puts a big fat smile on my face, can be stripped and re-built with ease, can get caped it sh*t and never skips a gear or drops the chain. The getting fitter bit is a bonus.

This explains the increase in speed and fitness

phil_smeeth

Imposter wrote:

phil_smeeth wrote:

I think having to push just 1 gear must help build power in some way.

You might need to think again. And going out on the roads on a bike with no brakes is incredibly stupid (not to mention illegal).

I don't have reflectors either...

chill123

I ride/train a fair bit on a fixed gear bike (48-17 gearing) both on my commute to the station 2-3 times per week (25 miles round trip) as well as some weekend rides (up to 50ish miles). I find it gives me several benefits such as:

- minimal/low maintenance
- less worry about commuter bike being stolen when left at station (it's an old gas pipe framed peugeot)
- i tend to favour spinning high cadence so riding a biggish fixed gear like this regularly has made me much stronger
- it makes me work harder on hills and into headwinds (to stay on top of the gear)
- riding 25 miles fixed means you pedal all the way (work harder). Riding fixed on my clubs bun run made me realise how much coasting is involved on geared/group rides!
- there is something 'pure' about it, it just feels nice
- it's a nice change from riding my usual geared bike all the time
- all my rides are on country lanes so with no traffic/lights etc i can get the most from riding fixed

I'd advise you to go for it.

Tom Dean

If you want to make your commute feel harder, go fixed.
If you want to train better, a geared bike is better.

iPete

What if your commute is your training?

legendary27

I use a fixie periodically on my commute - 23 miles each way - mostly through the Winter for ease of maintenance. Whilst I really enjoy riding it - it is amazing how liberating not having to think about changing gear is - I am not convinced that I get any tangible benefit that I would not get from riding one of my road bikes. In fact, when riding hard intervals (I train by heart rate), it is often difficult to raise my heart rate to the upper zones when on my fixed, as I start to spin out. To my mind the biggest benefit - already mentioned above - is that when the weather is bad, you can drag it out and ride it without having to worry too much about it, which probably results in me riding on more bad days than I perhaps would otherwise.

Ultimately, if you like riding it and as a result get out more, then it is of benefit. Just don't be disappointed if you don't suddenly develop a David Millar-like level of souplesse ! ;-)

Regards,
Gordon

BigFatBloke

As a power meter is no more or less than a measuring device and can do no more than measure the training you are doing, your comments are illogical. Here are some reasons why training on fixed may have training benefits.

1. On any incline the fixed rider must apply more force to the pedals to maintain power. There being no option to change gear the fixed rider is unable to ease off. Thus the fixed rider uses more effort and gets a bigger training effect.

2. The fixed rider develops muscles better adapted to applying high force. This may not be much of an advantage to a timetriallist but would certainly help any road rider or hill climber. Muscles better adapted to delivering high force may fatigue less at higher power outputs. If you can lift a big weight easily it is far easier to shift a smaller weight often and faster.

3. On any decline the fixed rider has no option but to increase cadence. Riding at very high cadence increases the ability to deliver power at high leg speeds. Neuromuscular power improvements again may not be of particular interest to timetriallists but would be of more interest to road racers or track riders.

4. The combination of muscles being trained to deliver power via more force at one extreme and more speed at the other extreme enables greater power at more preferred cadences. This must be of interest to timetriallists as well as track and road riders.

5. Due to the need to apply more force or maintain high power by increasing cadence the fixed rider develops a better ability to maintain form / position in race situations on a TT bike. Being able to hold your most aero position even into the wind or on the hard parts of a couse gives speed advantages. Fixed riders are more used and adapted to producing power in conditions which are not easy because they spend a greater percentage of their time training in a less than optimal gear.

6. The fixed rider when racing with gears is more able to put down the power on downhill sections or with a following wind because he is more used to spinning and will spin out later than the rider who trains on gears, if he spins out at all.

7. Psychological advantages, the fixed rider has more confidence and is less afraid of difficult conditions. He is less perturbed by changes in conditions and does not suffer from indecision over gear selection or constantly keep changing gear. He knows the only way to increase power is to push harder and or faster.


Using a power meter you would be able to measure fitness gains but you can't attribute any gains to the power meter.

Power meters have been around so long now they have become tradition and sadly the way so many people use them, most people would benefit more from spending £400 on a fixed gear bike than £2000 on a power meter.

There is also another benefit to the minimalist fixed gear no power meter approach. You can spend the several hours a week you spend looking at power data actually doing some training on the bike.

imposter2.0

BigFatBloke wrote:

2. The fixed rider develops muscles better adapted to applying high force. This may not be much of an advantage to a timetriallist but would certainly help any road rider or hill climber. Muscles better adapted to delivering high force may fatigue less at higher power outputs. If you can lift a big weight easily it is far easier to shift a smaller weight often and faster.

Most of your post is amusingly wrong - but this bit is particularly wrong.

BigFatBloke

A fixed rider does develop muscles better adapted to applying higher force, particularly from starting and climbing where he must use higher force to maintain or increase power.

This probably would not help a time triallist riding flat courses. It may well help a road rider on steeper climbs. It may well help a road rider make a sudden jump. Muscles which can develop more force may not necessarily be capable of generating more sustained power but they will help with shorter bursts of high power. Muscles capable of generating more force would help a hill climber (short hills not long alpine climbs) or sprinter.

For long sustained efforts like a TT strength the ability to apply high force is not very important particularly if you use gears.


You should also look at my use of the word may. I welcome discussion, but just saying something is wrong, without explaining why, is pointless.

symo

AUSHTA

http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html

imposter2.0

BigFatBloke wrote:

You should also look at my use of the word may. I welcome discussion, but just saying something is wrong, without explaining why, is pointless.

You said that riding fixed adapts muscles to apply a higher force - but in any aerobic cycling discipline, muscle 'force' (beyond certain minimal amounts) and strength (as indicated by your weightlifting reference) is not particularly relevant.

BigFatBloke

Imposter wrote:

BigFatBloke wrote:

You should also look at my use of the word may. I welcome discussion, but just saying something is wrong, without explaining why, is pointless.

You said that riding fixed adapts muscles to apply a higher force - but in any aerobic cycling discipline, muscle 'force' (beyond certain minimal amounts) and strength (as indicated by your weightlifting reference) is not particularly relevant.

I am talking about normal forces one would apply riding a bicycle be it a fixed gear or geared machine. You can increase power by applying more force to the pedal or increasing cadence. If you get used to pushing a bigger gear you will find it easier to push a smaller gear faster.

Riding fixed causes you to apply more force to maintain power. It is no different to big gear training. The forces are normal cycling forces. Outright strength is not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about pushing a bigger gear than you would prefer at say 60 rpm on fixed as opposed to pushing a smaller gear at 90 rpm to produce the same power.

Train uphills on fixed, then get your geared bike out and believe me you will find pushing the smaller gear at 90 rpm easier than you did before you started training on fixed.

imposter2.0

BigFatBloke wrote:

I'm talking about pushing a bigger gear than you would prefer at say 60 rpm on fixed as opposed to pushing a smaller gear at 90 rpm to produce the same power.

You mean resistance training? You don't need fixed for that, and the benefits are debatable anyway. Why not just train on an appropriate gear and work on your improving your FTP instead? I don't see too many coaches including fixed wheel training in their programmes, outside of any track disciplines, obviously.

BigFatBloke

Imposter wrote:

BigFatBloke wrote:

I'm talking about pushing a bigger gear than you would prefer at say 60 rpm on fixed as opposed to pushing a smaller gear at 90 rpm to produce the same power.

You mean resistance training? You don't need fixed for that, and the benefits are debatable anyway. Why not just train on an appropriate gear and work on your improving your FTP instead? I don't see too many coaches including fixed wheel training in their programmes, outside of any track disciplines, obviously.

No you do not need fixed to do it, but fixed does force you to do it. What tends to happen on fixed, is because you can't change gear up any hills, you must keep the momentum up so you are forced to push up the hill harder and put out more watts or grind to a halt. You are forced to ride at or over threshold longer and more often, this is a good way of improving FTP.

I'm old enough to have seen training methods come in, go out, then come back in again. The popularity of training methods does not prove their superiority.

I did a ride this morning using gears for the first time in about 9 months. I pushed as hard as I could over one of my regular circuits which is mostly uphill over the part I time, the gears enabled me to do it a few minutes faster than I would mange on fixed but because it was easier being in a more efficient gear ratio I was not stressed nearly as much. So in the end my ride took less time and less effort. It may or may not have had the same training benefit. Obviously power must have been higher but it was less strain on the legs, I was breathing easier and spent less time on the road. It might even out.

Have you tried riding fixed?

imposter2.0

BigFatBloke wrote:

Have you tried riding fixed?

Yes, but only on the track. I would regard riding a fixed wheel bike on the road as impractical at the best of times. Single speed perhaps - but where I live, being stuck in one gear is a massive disadvantage.

matudavey

madasahattersley wrote:

The only question you really need to ask before doing any kind of radical change in training is would Team Sky (the only people in cycling who seem to have a clue) recommend Froomey rides fixed over winter? Of course not, it's a crap idea if you want to get better.

Not sure about Team Sky, but I know British Cycling use training bikes with super-high resistance. Fixed gear is probably a fairly cheap alternative to get a similar kind of workout. I find riding fixed enables me to get a more thorough workout when I have limited time available.

Also, cycling has many different competitions; doing what Froome does will make you good at races that are 200km a day for 3 weeks, not necessarily optimal for other competitions.

imposter2.0

matudavey wrote:

I find riding fixed enables me to get a more thorough workout when I have limited time available.

the trouble is - what you personally might regard as a 'thorough workout' might actually be pretty useless from someone else's competitive cycle training point of view...

matudavey

Imposter wrote:

matudavey wrote:

I find riding fixed enables me to get a more thorough workout when I have limited time available.

the trouble is - what you personally might regard as a 'thorough workout' might actually be pretty useless from someone else's competitive cycle training point of view...

Fair enough...but you could just say that about any form of training.

I believe that by resisting the pedals on the downhills you are adding training load that you would not have had otherwise. Muscles can support a higher load eccentrically, forcing adaptation to improve strength. Eccentric movements have also been shown to reduce injuries (e.g. tendonitis).