Wheels

Headhuunter

I'm thinking about getting a pair of Dura Ace or Fulcrum Racing Zero wheels.... Has anyone got any experience of those? Are there any others of the same ilk/price range that I should consider? Mavic must have something similar.... Currently I've got RS80s on my "good" bike, not sure if I'd notice a difference between them and Dura Ace.

The other option is to go handbuilt with someone like Ugo but my impression of handbuilt is that they're more old fashioned, heavier multi spoke wheels albeit easier to maintain and replace parts in

Anyone got any thoughts?

asprilla

I think ITB has a set of hand build clinchers that come in under 1350g. He built them himself for under £500 (I think quite a but under but I may be wrong).

I had Fulcrum Racing 1s. I hit a cobble in RP and damaged both rims. It took 12 weeks to repair and cost £450. A replacement spoke was about £15.

Great wheels though.

I've now got H Plus Son Archetypes on CK R45s and 28/24 Sapim CX-ray spokes. They cost the same and weigh the same as my Racing 1s. They could easily be much cheaper if I hadn't gone for posing hubs and spokes. I can repair them myself if I need to and I can get a rim or spoke next day. They are also more robust components than my R1s.

The benefit for handbuilts is that they are specced (if you listen to the wheel builder) precisely for you and how you ride.

iPete

My hand built OpenPro/Hope Pro hubbed winter wheels are disappointingly close to the weight of my RS80s. They may look old fashioned and have more spokes but the real world difference is negligible.

I guess it depends what you want them for. If you're high miler who'll go through a rim quickly and wants to run nice hubs then hand builds are ideal.

clarkey cat

handbuilts would look the nuts on your genesis.

asprilla

clarkey cat wrote:

handbuilts would look the nuts on your genesis.

Something like H+Son TB14s on silver Hope Hubs with 32 silver Sapim Race spokes would looks classic and shiny.

I just had some TB14s on White Industries hubs put together for my single speed. They look in keeping with the late 80s frame.

spasypaddy

mavic rsys slrs are sub 1300g for clinchers

asprilla

spasypaddy wrote:

mavic rsys slrs are sub 1300g for clinchers

Mavic list them as 1295g but BR reivew weighed them as 1361g.

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

I'm thinking about getting a pair of Dura Ace or Fulcrum Racing Zero wheels.... Has anyone got any experience of those? Are there any others of the same ilk/price range that I should consider? Mavic must have something similar.... Currently I've got RS80s on my "good" bike, not sure if I'd notice a difference between them and Dura Ace.

The other option is to go handbuilt with someone like Ugo but my impression of handbuilt is that they're more old fashioned, heavier multi spoke wheels albeit easier to maintain and replace parts in

Anyone got any thoughts?

You could get a great pair of handbuilts done and save money I'm sure. I'd be looking at DT Swiss, Chris King R45 or White Industry Hubs. The White's come with a Titanium Freehub which is a good idea, I don't like how chewed up the Alu ones can get.

I've had a pair of Fulcrum 0's since 2008 and they have been brilliant. Needed re-truing once I think. Hubs are great and IME they have been bombproof. Fulcrum are part of Campagnolo so you know what to expect in terms of quality. They are a bit of a pain in terms of spokes and require their own key - worth remembering this if you ever get them serviced...

Headhuunter

Hmmm, perhaps I should get something hand built then... I quite like the look of low spoke count wheels on modern frames though!

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

Hmmm, perhaps I should get something hand built then... I quite like the look of low spoke count wheels on modern frames though!

You can have low spoke count on Handbuilt (depending on your weight, rim etc) just talk to a wheel builder.

asprilla

Now that I own a pair I'd say that Chris King hubs were over priced for what they are. Instead I'd look at Royce, White Industries or Goldtech hubs, maybe PMP or Tune.

Depends what you want really and there is always a balance to be had between serviceability, durability and weight. A good wheel builder will help there.

Headhuunter

Thanks.... Perhaps I should look into the hand built option more closely

prawny

Ugo posted some pics of a set of lovely looking handbuilt a23s last year, you can get handbuilts in all sorts of spoke numbers.

My fairly cheap open pro/novatech combo's are about the weight of some decent £300ish wheels, and even though they're a bit ye olde school, they look pretty swish on my verenti.

ShandyH

I've got Mavic Ksyrium SLS's and they're very light and stiff. Also very strong - I went over a pothole in the mid to late 20's coming down a hill and was convinced I'd damaged a rim as it was a serious jolt. It split my inner tube but the rim was absolutely fine. Maybe I was lucky but I was really impressed. Possibly not the most aero wheels ever but they are extremely responsive. I used to have Fulcrum 3's and these are a big step up.

sketchley

Go to ugo.

Handbuilts on Genesis, 32 Hole Ultegra with Rigida DP18 rims not by Ugo but he did rebuild back one earlier in year



and on Enigma built 36 Hole Ultegra with Velocity Deep V rims, by ugo

itboffin

1220g if you will, but i'm having some problems with pinging noise, and i'm pretty sure its nothing to do with my weight because as it happens the hand built are 24/20 whereas both my Mavics (2008) and RS10 are 20/18 and no problems there.

Back to the LBS this weekend for me. :evil:

ugo.santalucia

itboffin wrote:

1220g if you will, but i'm having some problems with pinging noise, and i'm pretty sure its nothing to do with my weight because as it happens the hand built are 24/20 whereas both my Mavics (2008) and RS10 are 20/18 and no problems there.

Back to the LBS this weekend for me. :evil:

Well, your 24 CX Ray spokes weigh just over 4 grams each, while each Ksyrium spoke is easily 10 grams and the RS 80 probably 8, so there are 100 grams of spokes in your rear wheel, vs 200 for the Ksyrium and 160 for the RS 80... in addition, you have had them built on the lightest rim on the market, which happens to have the stiffness of a block of margarine.

Spokes and rims are not all the same and spoke count has to account for the rim in question... as I did tell you, your Stans 340 have to be 32, while a Velocity Deep V can even be 24

greg66_tri_v2.0

itboffin wrote:

1220g if you will, but i'm having some problems with pinging noise, and i'm pretty sure its nothing to do with my weight

Perhaps it is the dinner tray, fully laden, that you balance on the handlebars.

Or the bottle of white Burgundy in the downtube bottle cage.

I realise it is a bit non-U, but you could shave some weight by using plastic cutlery.

cjcp

Sketchley wrote:

Go to ugo.

Handbuilts on Genesis, 32 Hole Ultegra with Rigida DP18 rims not by Ugo but he did rebuild back one earlier in year



and on Enigma built 36 Hole Ultegra with Velocity Deep V rims, by ugo

Aargh!!!! My eyes!!!!

The chain!!!!

It's on the inner ring!!!!

The rest of it looks good though

cjcp

Back on topic, handbuilts look nice. Always liked my Kinlin rims.

rolf_f

cjcp wrote:

Aargh!!!! My eyes!!!!

The chain!!!!

It's on the inner ring!!!!

The rest of it looks good though

If only it was on the inner ring but things are worse than that!

itboffin

So Rolf what you're saying is sketch has a triple in London and his vvvv nice new bike photo is in the middle ring :roll:

Headhuunter

Anyway enough about inner rings... I get enough of that at home. What's everyone's view on cone and ball vs cartridge bearings? My wheels to date have all been C&B and the cone always ends up pitted and damaged and is irreplaceable... I hear that with cartridge systems you can simply remove the cartridge, stick a new one in and off you go, are they really as serviceable as that?

asprilla

Headhuunter wrote:

Anyway enough about inner rings... I get enough of that at home. What's everyone's view on cone and ball vs cartridge bearings? My wheels to date have all been C&B and the cone always ends up pitted and damaged and is irreplaceable... I hear that with cartridge systems you can simply remove the cartridge, stick a new one in and off you go, are they really as serviceable as that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2WneTMI69A

Headhuunter

Asprilla wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Anyway enough about inner rings... I get enough of that at home. What's everyone's view on cone and ball vs cartridge bearings? My wheels to date have all been C&B and the cone always ends up pitted and damaged and is irreplaceable... I hear that with cartridge systems you can simply remove the cartridge, stick a new one in and off you go, are they really as serviceable as that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2WneTMI69A

Thanks but are they all like that inc the cartridges in something like a Fulcrum Racing Zero or is it just fancy Hope hubs?

tgotb

Headhuunter wrote:

Thanks but are they all like that inc the cartridges in something like a Fulcrum Racing Zero or is it just fancy Hope hubs?

Varies, but I'd guess the vast majority of hubs these days, including a lot of the budget ones, use cartridge bearings; with cheap bearings available off the shelf, they should be a fair bit cheaper to manufacture. Novatech make quite nice hubs for the money, using cartridge bearings.

I hate faffing around with cup/cone bearings, especially cheap ones; the decent ones are probably mechanically superior, but at the moment I can't be bothered.

spasypaddy

fulcrum racing 3s upwards have cup and ball bearings

ugo.santalucia

Piece of advice from someone who has handled a few hundred hubs:
Best value for money are Novatec 171/172 (also branded Ambrosio)... I have built probably 50 sets of these and never had a problem
Best hubs up to 10 speed cassettes are Hope PRO 3... the only ones that take Uk weather in their stride and don't mind it
I also like Miche Primato, although the drilling range is limited and 105, Ultegra and Campy Record, with an even more limited choice of drilling

Anything else is either overpriced or not up to the job of coping with our climate. I have had endless problems with the light Novatec 482 rear hubs... endless grief and I won't use them again!

asprilla

The think I would say about the Pro 3s is that the free hubs chew very easily indeed. I've replaced my alu one with the steel version after a few thousand miles. I actually pulled the free hub body off the hub whilst trying to remove the cassette.

ugo.santalucia

Asprilla wrote:

The think I would say about the Pro 3s is that the free hubs chew very easily indeed. I've replaced my alu one with the steel version after a few thousand miles. I actually pulled the free hub body off the hub whilst trying to remove the cassette.

The freehub pops off easily, so that is not unusual... most cassettes chew into alloy freehubs, higher end casettes made of clusters chew less and of course tightening the cassette properly helps too. I have some Novatec hubs, the chewest of them all in that respect, yet they are fine after two years and about 8 K miles, so I suspect it is down to proper fitting and use.
I would say Hope are not the softest out there and all the Hope freehubs I have inspected were fine after many miles

Headhuunter

spasypaddy wrote:

fulcrum racing 3s upwards have cup and ball bearings

Really? Oh.... I thought the Fulcrum range was all cartridge