re spray paint finish help?

cooldad

Still a sh1t bike though.*

cooldad

*It's actually looking quite presentable.

gt-arrowhead

cooldad wrote:

*It's actually looking quite presentable.

Yeah i guess it is sh1t, its from `96 so it wont be amazing, even though its got much better components on it since last time, like deore shifters etc.

I love it so its fine

CUBEical

i have re built my bike now so can not be doing all this sanding , i only sanded out the drips . well this thread alone has taught me allot about re spraying i so wish i actually did it like this. i only put 3 coats of lacquer on i did get a second can as the first run out on the 3rd i sanded out the drips and started to go over the whole thing but it was doing the orange peel effect and i worried it would look like that after i had put another layer on also the guy at wilcos said not to put to much on as the weight builds up... i really wish i had taken my time and did it like the one in your pic for your boy that looks awesome. can they put two colours on with powder coat ? i will get a pick of mine up tonight and I will show you the scratch the scratch has taken the paint off so I might have to respray that bit?

CUBEical

How do you get good quality photos posted on a thread as i just use the uploaded provided but i have to resize all of my pictures and it kills the quality

Here is the dreaded scratch


Here is my frame well i thought it was finished but by the sounds of it i should take it all apart and sand it then re apply the finishing coat


oh and as i just found out they have to be in portrait is there an external way of doing it ?

CUBEical

photo bucket just clicked on your bike picture

CUBEical

paulski1966 how you get yours on here as it did not take me to photo bucket when i clicked on yours ?

paulski1966

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

Heres how my frame turned out btw. No seriously thorough preparation as such, but it wasnt a bodge job by any means.

That's a really good job actually - you should be proud of that. Metallic paint is an absolute b'stard to spray (I'm sorry to say especially greys!!!), so to get the finish you did is really impressive.

If i saw that after i sanded paint (talking about 2nd picture) id be like "ahhh bollox ive messed it up"

To be honest you won't ever get it perfect, unless you spend ridiculous amounts of time on it - here is my ugly mug reflected in the side panel. Notice the peel below my foot and the defect below my elbow - its important to remember when you paint that you look at it closer then anyone ever will - spraying is like an OCD nightmare!

paulski1966

CUBEical wrote:

Here is the dreaded scratch

Have you still got some of the white paint that you sprayed it with? If so buy the smallest paint brush you can (something like a 00 size), spray some of the paint into the lid and use the brush to touch in the paint, if you wish you can then very carefully sand this flat and lacquer again over the top. From the looks of your picture one of the reasons it may not be shining that much is it looks a littl like there is a dusted coat on top (by this I don't mean a layer of dust I mean a very thin coat of spray - if you imagine spraying water in a very fine mist, it will land on a source as a fine mist, keep spraying water onto this source and slowly the fine mist particles will merge together until they form a fine sheet of water - this is the same sort of effect you want to achieve with paint, that's there is enough paint to form a smooth sheet, but not so much that it runs. If you only spray a very fine light coat at the end you end up with the tiny paint particles - like the fine water mist I mentioned before - this will kill the shine as you end up with a distorted surface that will not reflect light evenly. the good news is that a very light sand with 1500 paper will likely get rid of it).

Here is my frame well i thought it was finished but by the sounds of it i should take it all apart and sand it then re apply the finishing coat

Don't take it all apart, it looks fine and there is no real point. You can cheat to some extent if you wish - look at the bike and think about where the light will reflect off it - the top of the down tube, top tube, chainstays etc. Give them a really light sand with 1500 (just to remove the fine mist coat, if thats what it is) and polish it out - if you want to use Tcut make sure its the one for Metallic paint - TCut did contain, and possibly still does, ammonia - ammonia can cloud lacquer, metallic TCut doesn't contain ammonia for this reason. TCut is pretty aggressive as its designed to be used by hand so be careful with it as its easy to burn through lacquer and paint with it.

paulski1966

CUBEical wrote:

paulski1966 how you get yours on here as it did not take me to photo bucket when i clicked on yours ?

To get my pics up, I upload them onto photobucket then click on the "Direct" link next to the picture, this copies it -



Then when typing your message click on the Img button which inserts [ img][/img] tags - paste the link in the middle of them and that should work. Hope that helps.

CUBEical

cheers guys , I will try that on photo bucket next time . ... guys about my scratch will that pen work then or not as it has taken the paint of . I have run out of the white spray paint I will see if i c=got the empty can still could cut it open and use the bit that should be left in it ? and paint brush it on, the thing that put me off sanding it all down all over was the fact i got decals on it too I did not want it to scuff the edges. I am so inpatient I just want to get my bike back on the road lol. been to long. Wish i had taken my time now though. It makes it go from a £40 respray to a £100 just by getting it all right. I know now for my next project i am going to make sure that i get it right , also i will have the added benefit of already having a bike to ride so i wont be in any rush.

paulski talk me threw the stages you did to get that finish for you boys bike times left layers and that that would be a great help thanks

Kowalski675

paulski1966 wrote:

Metallic paint is an absolute b'stard to spray (I'm sorry to say especially greys!!!), so to get the finish you did is really impressive.

He wanted a candy, but I put him off that idea, lol.

gt-arrowhead

paulski1966 wrote:

That's a really good job actually - you should be proud of that. Metallic paint is an absolute b'stard to spray (I'm sorry to say especially greys!!!), so to get the finish you did is really impressive.

Cheers, i was quite chuffed with how it came out. That was my 4th frame that ive sprayed so i had a sort of idea of what i was doing. I know that i could have got a much better result if i spent alot of time sanding and preparing it, and doing more research.

It was much harder to get the metallic paint right. With the old matt black it was a piece of piss, this one was much harder to get an even coverage with, because it seems to go patchy when it dries. I actually sprayed it for what i thought was the final coat, then i left it to dry and it looked nice, with an even coverage all round, then i went back to it half an hour or so later and it looked really really patchy. So i ended up spraying it agian!

To be honest you won't ever get it perfect, unless you spend ridiculous amounts of time on it - here is my ugly mug reflected in the side panel. Notice the peel below my foot and the defect below my elbow - its important to remember when you paint that you look at it closer then anyone ever will - spraying is like an OCD nightmare!

I guess so, it depends on what you are spraying to be honest. If you are doing a car or a motorbike then its well worth doing the best possibly job on it. But if its like in my case where its a mountain bike frame, then you can get away with not spending all the time in the world doing it, as they are gonna pick up battle scars, little scratches and paint chips, and dirt etc. And its much easier to strip a MTB then to strip a car a bike!

That picture is quite awesome :P

CUBEical, i think that polishing or any other technique/product wont get rid of that. It looks like a chip to me. The actual coat of paint seems to have chipped off there. When i get something like that, i just get some finishing paper (very fine) and sand the area around it lightly, and keep having a feel every now and then until you feel that its smooth. Then wipe the dust off it and make sure its clean (no water or anything else, use a dry cloth) then spray that area with the paint you had before, and im sure that will get rid of the crack. When i had the matt black i did it like that and it looked like nothing ever happened. I did it with the metallic blue (yes i got a scratch already ) and the area where it was scratched quite badly was a slightly lighter shade. But with a non metallic finish like yours, im certain it will be fine.

Yep, i did want a candy red, but you did put me off Kowalski and there wasnt a metallic spray paint that looked similar. Im kind of glad i went for the blue now though, i think i prefer it!

£40? Thats alot for a DIY spray can job. I only spent a tenner on mine, i bought a can of grey primer and metallic blue from a home store called "Range". The paint make was plastikote, which is half the price of the Halfords paints. The only thing is the nozzle on the plastikote cans were KILLERS! After one coat my hand was saw already. Woke up the next morning with a forearm like bloody Schwarzenegger!

Chunkers1980

Are you sure that was the paint.

CUBEical

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

£40? Thats alot for a DIY spray can job. I only spent a tenner on mine, i bought a can of grey primer and metallic blue from a home store called "Range". The paint make was plastikote, which is half the price of the Halfords paints. The only thing is the nozzle on the plastikote cans were KILLERS! After one coat my hand was saw already. Woke up the next morning with a forearm like bloody Schwarzenegger!

well i got primer Around £5 , white say £5 , blue £5 , 2x clear £10 . and then the decals £11 for the feathers as had them made. and £4 ish for the cube logo stickers so its around £40

i might just get a white paint pen as have not got any of the white left. so that pen i got of ebay wont that get rid of it ? and yes it has took the white paint off

i have to get a new frame any way as this one is way to big for mtbing properly , but for the road it is ok, i got my eye on a hoodoo Bantu frame they got in my local second hand bike store , they want £40 for it is that price reasonable? i will go all out on the next bike respray. i got mine blasted as its aluminium. is there a more cheaper way of getting the paint of an aluminium frame ? cheers guys much appreciated

gt-arrowhead

Ohh right, the pricing makes sense in that case. Do you mind me asking where you got the custom decals from?

I reckon the best thing to do is get the same colour spray paint again, as the paint will be a perfect match in that case, and its ideal because it is pretty much inevitable that you will have some more scratches or chips that you can touch up. Using that pen may leave you with a different shade. But then again, its quite rare to see a massive difference between different shades of white, and its actually quite rare to get different shades of white (considering the product just says "white" on the can)

£40 sounds really good for that frame. But dont go by my word on that, worth asking some more people that know more than me.

Tbh, its not really necessary to take a frame all the way back to bare metal. Ive never done that as i think its just pointless. I just sand a fair bit off the previous paint,so that the primer sticks to it better but most importantly so you are spraying on a flat surface. i use a fine sand paper to do this, and ive had excellent results every time.

I just left the matt black on there, this is it before the sanding, but it didnt look much different after sanding really, just slightly more dull. It didnt see it under the primer at all. So i recommend that. But if you are one of those people that are crazy about weight, then you will probably save about 300g or something. Some people think that the whole weight of the paint in the can gets added to frame, but thats a load of BS because a fair amount of it goes into the air when you spray.

Yes chunkers, im sure, lol

CUBEical

this is where i got the custom feather decals http://www.graphicshack.co.uk they are really good i gave them my old pay-pal address and they sent therm there , but they sent me more any way to my new address so was good at no extra charge being my fault. will be using them again........ i guess i should get some more white paint , i will try the pen first as i got that already coming in the psot but i can not see it helping much if that fails i will just sand it down mask up the whole of my bike and do that little bit sanding it down then spray sand spray well gutted lol never mind more to come .....took it out today for the first time.the rear derailleur has not got a barrel adjuster on it so was fun sorting out the gears i have just ordered on off ebay so going to have to do them all again.

Kowalski675

CUBEical wrote:

well i got primer Around £5 , white say £5 , blue £5 , 2x clear £10 .

Could've had it powdercoated white for that.

gt-arrowhead

I forgot to say, you did a fantastic job with getting the frame with 2 different colours. How did you do it? White all over, then masking tape to cover up what ever you didnt want blue, then spray the rest blue?

paulski1966

CUBEical wrote:

. ... guys about my scratch will that pen work then or not as it has taken the paint of . I have run out of the white spray paint I will see if i c=got the empty can still could cut it open and use the bit that should be left in it ? and paint brush it on

Looking at that pen - probably not. Not sure how it works but the fact it says it will work on any colour tells me its just a polish in a pen. Scratch removal with polishes/cutting compounds (they are essentially the same thing) works by softening the edges of the scratch so that the light reflects of it in a more uniform manner making it less visible, or taking the surrounding paint down to the same level as the base of the scratch so its invisible. It doesn't add paint or colour - meaning that if you have scratched down to the primer/frame (which it looks like in your picture) no amount of polishing will hide it - without adding paint first it will always be visible to some extent. Be careful if you crack open the can, it will still be pressurised.

the thing that put me off sanding it all down all over was the fact i got decals on it too I did not want it to scuff the edges. I am so inpatient I just want to get my bike back on the road lol. been to long. Wish i had taken my time now though. It makes it go from a £40 respray to a £100 just by getting it all right. I know now for my next project i am going to make sure that i get it right , also i will have the added benefit of already having a bike to ride so i wont be in any rush.

Did you say you you had lacquered over the decals - if so, so long as you are careful you could still sand it.
I'm going to be honest and say that most of the time powder coating is the simplest and most cost effective approach. I just had my 456 done at the local coaters - £40 to have it sand blasted and coated (although that is very cheap) - powder coat is a lot tougher then rattle can paint.

paulski talk me threw the stages you did to get that finish for you boys bike times left layers and that that would be a great help thanks

Bike stripped using an abrasive paint removing wheel (the red type, not the grey, grey are too harsh)

Because it was a steel frame I sprayed it in zinc primer - which provides a little more rust protection. If it is an aluminium frame it should be etch primer, then standard primer. Primer was sanded flat with 600 grit paper (you don't want to go too fine when sanding the primer as you need something for the top layer to adhere to). Frame was then sprayed with two cans of black paint. Because it was a solid colour there was no need for clear coat (lacquer) - clear coat is only really needed on metallic and pearl paints, modern day cars have it on solid colours because the automotive industry now uses water based paints rather then solvent, so the clear coat is needed to protect the paint, rattle cans are still solvent based paint. Colour sanded back the paint until it was flat then polished with Farecla G10, and a final polish with a standard bottle of meguiars polish I had kicking about.

Kowalski675

paulski1966 wrote:

I'm going to be honest and say that most of the time powder coating is the simplest and most cost effective approach.

Amen to that. Powdercoating will never give you the glass smooth finish that a really professional paintjob will, but if you use a good coater then it gives a superb finish for a fraction of the cost of wet painting, since it's far less labour intensive (and it's tougher). Of course I have been known to go a bit mental and put over a thousand quid of powdercoat on one bike, lol. I've had loads of powdercoating done over the years. My Triumph wheels that I had done last summer are gloss black with silver metalflake lacquer - a beautiful finish for a bargain £100, a comparable effect in wet paint would've cost three times that.





Anodising's cheap too.

modern day cars have it on solid colours because the automotive industry now uses water based paints rather then solvent, so the clear coat is needed to protect the paint

Another thing to thank the tree huggers and meddling EU wan*ers for...

CUBEical

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

I forgot to say, you did a fantastic job with getting the frame with 2 different colours. How did you do it? White all over, then masking tape to cover up what ever you didnt want blue, then spray the rest blue?

thanks for that. well i just simply primed the hole thing used 3mm masking tape marked out the blue side sprayed it there also a blue line going along the bottom tube up to where it meets the back of the head set, after i had done 3 coats of blue i took all masking tape off. left it 24 hrs then went back and masked up the blue side right to the edge then sprayed 3 coats of white on the white side. and there you have it , i do not know if that is the correct way or the normal way of doing it but thats how i did it one to save on paint (i always sprayed till i run out any way) also the white was a gloss white so the blue would not go over it.

can you get two types of colour with powder coat ? like mine in detail ? because my guess is you cant you could only get a messy to colours like a fade in and out ?

paulski1966

Kowalski675 wrote:

Ohhhhhhh Sparkly! Even the cat is mesmerized by them! They look lovely - but you can't just post up a pic of the wheels and not of the whole bike - that's just being a tease

Another thing to thank the tree huggers and meddling EU wan*ers for...

Very true - not forgetting the huge irony that with solid colours they have pretty much banned 2K paint due to the harmful effects of it - so now you have to use water based colour paint..... and spray over it with a 2K clear coat because you cannot get water based clear :roll:

Kowalski675

paulski1966 wrote:

Ohhhhhhh Sparkly! Even the cat is mesmerized by them!

Very sparkly. They look like a metallic black until you get direct sunshine on them, then they go all seventies 'flake disco pimp, lol. I love 'em. Bargain for £100. Freya actually seemed pretty unimpressed though, more interested in how long it was 'til teatime, lol.

They look lovely - but you can't just post up a pic of the wheels and not of the whole bike - that's just being a tease

There you go.

Another thing to thank the tree huggers and meddling EU wan*ers for...

Very true - not forgetting the huge irony that with solid colours they have pretty much banned 2K paint due to the harmful effects of it - so now you have to use water based colour paint..... and spray over it with a 2K clear coat because you cannot get water based clear :roll:[/quote]

Genius, isn't it...

paulski1966

Kowalski675 wrote:

God damn that's nice. Love the colour too.

CUBEical

i went out for a long bike ride today well until i got a flat 45 mins in....... when i got back and took three attempts to use a patch ( three different ones) trying to get them to stick before i realised you need to glue both sides been about 13 years since i have changed a flat , well after did that i noticed one of my decals had moved and folded in under its self while i was out think i know when it happened but that is not the point its been over a week , this shouldn't be happening right? also on the left side where my foot rubs on the bottom bar all the lacquer is going funny thought it would be ok to ride ? its getting scrape marks in it ,.... think i might take it all apart sand it down and do a few more layers and leave it longer as the decal cam off just as any sticker would if it got banged ,what you reckon or should i stop worrying about it and just ride ?

Kowalski675

paulski1966 wrote:

God damn that's nice. Love the colour too.

Cheers. I like her, I've done a lot of mods to her (and spent far too much money, lol), so she looks way sexier than a standard one (goes and sounds better too - the Arrow 3 into 1 exhaust was an extravagance, but is beautiful quality, looks a million times better than the OE system and sounds pornographic). I love the colour too - it's a candy orange over metallic silver basecoat, the picture doesn't really do it justice. I think it's a lovely colour, but I also like the fact that it's so rare - they only made them in that colour for a few months, and I've only ever seen two others on the road. It's an uber bitch to match though, even for pro painters. The black anodising on the brake calipers is one of my favourite (and inexpensive) mods - I hated the OE gold anodising, and the black really finished the look off.

gt-arrowhead

On the topic of sexy paint schemes, ive come up with a master plan for my Chucker frame. Im really getting hyped up about the image of it that i have in my head, and i just want it translated in reality! By the way, this isnt some bullcrap unreachable dream that ive come up with. I can afford to do this.

Looking at spraying it metallic grey, a very dark shade and lacquer + sanding + polishing (as discussed earlier)

A black Marzocchi fork, re-decaled with some sexy proper carbon effect/look decals. They say "BOMBER" in massive writing with the marzochhi "M" on the bottom.

Black carbon effect jagwire cabling for gears and brakes, with red anodized ferrules

A black brake caliper at the back (might strip and spray my white caliper) with a floating disc, the disc will be black ano for the middle bit with red anodized rivets. All the adaptor and caliper bolts will be red anodized, as will the rotor bolts.

Up front im going to have a V brake for the temporary, and i think i might spray that black or red.

Ill have a look at getting custom frame decals made by a company, i might ask to post them the carbon effect vinyl that i can get cheap off ebay, then email them a font saying "Chucker" in nice big letters to go on the downtube and "GT" to go on the toptube. and tell them to cut the font out of the carbon vinyl sheet obviously. If i can find it, ill get some very subtle red "design" decal that can go on the downtube near the bottom bracket, and possibly half onto the chainstays.

Completely black wheels , black cranks with red "raceface" decals and red pedals. Handlebars, stem and seatpost and seat will be black, and grey grips.

Result = Porn. For me that is It wont cost me extra, because most of the stuff i either have, or will need to get anyway, so i can go for the tarted up look. But i think i might have trouble with the custom carbon effect decals that i want. And there is also another issue... I CANT JUSTIFY SPRAYING MY FRAME, ITS MINT! Really dodgy colours on it to match other components with i dont want it to look all over the place.

Kowalski675

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

re-decaled with some sexy proper carbon effect/look decals.

Fake carbon is a crime against humanity.

gt-arrowhead

Well, you cant get real carbon decals. And what would be the point if you could?