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Replacing bottom bracket - 2007 Carrera Kraken

Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
edited June 2013 in MTB workshop & tech
Hi all. Today after washing and lubing my bike (2007 Carrera Kraken) I noticed that the BB sounds poorly. It was fine before my last ride, but now it's making an unpleasant creaking, so I'm guessing it's on its way out (despite having only done 100 miles at most from new).

So, my question is, what special tools (I have a well stocked tool cabinet, but no bicycle specific tools) will I need to replace it? Crank extractor and BB extractor socket? Can anyone point me in the direction of decent suitable ones please? It's a Truvativ Isoflow crank and Powerspline BB (can anyone tell me what dimensions of replacement BB I'd need and/or point me in the right direction, if you'd be so kind?

Thanks in adavance.
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Posts

  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,904
    Tools correct, as long as you get the right ones. See Parktools - 'Read this first' below for all the info on everything.
    BB - same as the one you take out - it will be printed on the BB body, or you can measure the BB shell width and axle length.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

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  • Chunkers1980Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    Seems pretty piss poor on the mileage. You sure it is the bb and not he the crank or something else. Otherwise, what cd says
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,904
    True I wouldn't expect creaking from a BB, roughness yes. Check everything first - crank bolts, pedals, headset, in fact the whole bike. Creaks can sound like they're coming from random places. Even cables can make creaky noises.
    And now you have something to keep you busy tomorrow.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    cooldad wrote:
    Tools correct, as long as you get the right ones. See Parktools - 'Read this first' below for all the info on everything.
    BB - same as the one you take out - it will be printed on the BB body, or you can measure the BB shell width and axle length.

    Cheers, I'll peruse your link. I'd hoped to get the BB in advance, so I can swap it over in one go, but if I have to take it out then measure and order, it's not a major hassle. Maybe better to remove it first and make sure I'm ordering the right thing.
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    cooldad wrote:
    True I wouldn't expect creaking from a BB, roughness yes. Check everything first - crank bolts, pedals, headset, in fact the whole bike. Creaks can sound like they're coming from random places. Even cables can make creaky noises.
    And now you have something to keep you busy tomorrow.

    Maybe creaking's not the right description, maybe grinding's a better word. The noise is definitely from the drivetrain, and certainly seems to be coming from the BB. It's only present when spinning the cranks - spin the cranks and stop, but let the rear wheel continue spinning on its own and the noise stops, so it's not from the chain, rear wheel or hub. I noticed it when spinning the cranks while lubing the drivertrain after washing and drying. It's not the pedals (I fitted brand new ones after the wash, but the noise is still there).

    The mileage is rather disappointing, but while it's covered very few miles, the bike's over 5 years old, so maybe being stood (or rather hung) around so long hasn't helped it (maybe some moisture got in over time and did its naughty work - couple of years back when I put my Bandit away for winter there was a bit of water in the head bearings from washing and when I got the bike out in spring the bearings were scrap - rusted to buggery).
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    That's what I'm thinking. I can't see any other way it would be goosed after 100 miles dry weather use.
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    Well, I had my LBS take a poke around it this afternoon and my ears were deceiving me. Turns out it's not the BB, but the rear freewheel hub. The wheel itself doesn't have any play in the frame, and I still have drive, but the hub's noisy and has some play (the cassete's wobbling a bit) and feels pretty rough rotating it by hand. So, the short version is - my rear wheel's fooked. :( I guess bashing her round Gisburn with a talentless newbie at the controls was asking a bit more than the components were designed for.

    He had a look at my recalcitrant front X5 shifter too while he was at it and it seems that's goosed too (when shifting up it shifts, but the lever doesn't return, you have to pull it back into position).
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,904
    cooldad wrote:
    ... Creaks can sound like they're coming from random places.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    I'm wishing it was the BB, it would be substantially cheaper.
  • kevinharleykevinharley Posts: 554
    So, the short version is - my rear wheel's fooked. :(

    Unlikely I would have thought. Without knowing the wheel, freehub etc, would have thought you would new freehub (£15/£20?) and / or cleaning and regreasing the bearings and cups on the wheel, possibly new bearings. A bit more expensive than a new BB, but a lot less than a new wheel :) Doable yourself if you know what you're doing.
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    So, the short version is - my rear wheel's fooked. :(

    Unlikely I would have thought. Without knowing the wheel, freehub etc, would have thought you would new freehub (£15/£20?) and / or cleaning and regreasing the bearings and cups on the wheel, possibly new bearings. A bit more expensive than a new BB, but a lot less than a new wheel :) Doable yourself if you know what you're doing.

    It's just the cheap original (and heavy - the front wheel & tyre weighs 2.5kg) wheel that came with the bike, they're labelled WPP:

    MBK214.biketest.carrer4-670-75.jpg

    The couple of shops I asked at reckoned it might be possible to rebuild the hub, depending on the damage found once dismantled, but that it wouldn't be economically viable, and would cost as much or more than a new similar wheel. I'm mechanically competent (I do all my own spannering on my motorcycles, and have stripped and rebuilt complete bikes), but I know very little about bicycle spannering, and don't have any specific bicycle tools (chain whip, cone spanners etc - nothing like that).
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    That's not a WPP it's a ddm (yes I know......stands for double wall disc then something or other I don't know, used to say on Halfords webby)

    They are Formula hubs and rims, so if you/they can get Formula spares you can fix it. Appear on ebay, expect to pay about £25-30 delivered (l;ess if you are lucky) or just upgrade!
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    That's not a WPP it's a ddm

    Lol, now I feel like the woman who asked her garage for a new 710 cap for her car engine... :lol:
    They are Formula hubs and rims, so if you/they can get Formula spares you can fix it. Appear on ebay, expect to pay about £25-30 delivered (l;ess if you are lucky) or just upgrade!

    Cheers. What would I need? A complete freehub assembly? £25 plus a chainwhip and cassete removal socket doesn't really make it economically viable, given the cost of a similar wheel. I had been thinking of upgrading the bike (forks, brakes and wheels), but the more I think about that, the less it seems to make sense - five or six hundred quid would go a long way towards a new bike.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    Sorry, I meant you can get a complete wheel for about that! To be honest any decentish rear wheel will do.

    As for ddm/wpp, you'll see a lot get that wrong!
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    As for ddm/wpp, you'll see a lot get that wrong!

    Doesn't make me feel any less of a divvy, lol. :lol:

    I've just been trawling Ebay for wheels. I'm not sure if the hub failure's just bad luck (the bike's done 100 miles at most), or if bashing it round Gisburn trail centre last weekend was just asking more of the components than they were built to take (at the end of the day it's a budget bike, and not built for being taken on red/black routes with a cack handed, talentless rider at the controls, nor my overly heavy landings off the jumps at the bottom of the Hope Line - I suspect maybe that's what killed it). I'm wary of putting on a similarly low end wheel if I'm just going to break that as quickly. I don't want to spend a fortune, but it's sunny and I want to play out. The bike is rideable (albeit noisy), but I don't fancy walking miles back to my car if the freehub breaks completely and leaves me with no drive.

    Am I right in thinking that these would be no good to me as they wouldn't fit my 9 speed cassette?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121118022959? ... 26_rdc%3D1
  • Chunkers1980Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    They will fit. Free hubs are standard width
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    They will fit. Free hubs are standard width

    Cheers. I'd seen various wheels listed as "suitable for 7/8/9 speed", so guessed 10 speed cassettes must be different. Any opinions on the wheels in the link? Any good? Worth the asking price?
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    The Formula 'ddms' are pretty robust, they use the same ones on the Banshee, Voodoo and Boardman also use the same wheels (different stickers though!)
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    The Formula 'ddms' are pretty robust, they use the same ones on the Banshee, Voodoo and Boardman also use the same wheels (different stickers though!)

    The rims and spokes are fine - they've taken what my cack handed riding's given them so far with no ill effects, but the freehub's poorly :(

    My mate's Boardman (Team FS) has Mavics.
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    Yes a team would have, I didn't say they all had Formula!

    I didn't say you did, just making conversation, lol. :wink:

    Any thoughts on Mavic EN321 or XM317 on Shimano 525 hubs with DT stainless steel spokes? (£110 for the 317s, tenner more for the 321s).
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    Both good options, the 21 is wider and heavier than the 17 which I'd suggest was fine on a Kraken (21 would be overkill). Do you have a weight for the combo, Merlin do some great deals.
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    Both good options, the 21 is wider and heavier than the 17 which I'd suggest was fine on a Kraken (21 would be overkill). Do you have a weight for the combo, Merlin do some great deals.

    I've been watching a pair of Merlin handbuilt EN321s (on M525 hubs) on Ebay, or there's these prebuilt EN321s or XM317s at JE James:

    http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/mavic-xm ... 62158.html

    http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/mavic-en ... 62159.html

    They don't list weights, but according to this website:

    http://thespokedwheel.co.uk/index.html

    the EN321 on M525 hubs with DT Swiss spokes come in at 2200g for the pair (with rim tapes, but without skewers). He doesn't list the XM317, but the same hubs and spokes with XM119 rims he lists at 2020g, and Mavic list the XM317 as 40g lighter than the 317, so the 317s should come in at around 1940g.

    According to the JE James details the XM317 can take up to 2.3" tyres, but Mavic's own website says max tyre width 2.1", which would limit choice in trail tyres.

    On Merlin's site there's hand built Stans ZTR355 or Olympic on M525 hubs with ACI stainless spokes for £120 (I notice the Stans rims aren't eyeleted, dpes that matter?):

    http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/w ... ms-26.html

    Or these half price Shimanos for a bit more at £150:

    http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/w ... -pair.html
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    2200g is pretty chubby.....

    You can put 2.3's on a 17....just, maybe not a Rubber Queen as they come up BIG!

    Eyeletting adds strength (and weight) but if a rim is designed to be used without eyeletts and from a company like Stans then it will be fine!
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    2200g is pretty chubby.....

    Yeah. I could've got the unised Merlin hand built en321 / m525 combo cheap on Ebay today (they went for £100), but I let them go, 'cos I thought the rim was probably overkill, and extra unnecessary (for my use) weight.
    You can put 2.3's on a 17....just, maybe not a Rubber Queen as they come up BIG!

    Wonder why Mavic say maximum 2.1 on their website? Maybe just being cautious, given the difference in actual tyre size v nominal size from one manufacturer to another.
    Eyeletting adds strength (and weight) but if a rim is designed to be used without eyeletts and from a company like Stans then it will be fine!

    I know that eyeletting is supposed to reduce cracking round spoke holes (and make wheelbuilding easier), but I wondered whether it was less of an issue with modern ally compositions and machining.

    My latest contender is hand built Mavic X119 rims on M525 hubs with DT Swiss Competition spokes for £105. Those are listed at 2020g (but that's a measured weight, not a manufacturer's claim). Those are a cheaper non eyeletted rim:

    http://thespokedwheel.co.uk/mavic-xm-119.html

    Think they'd be a good choice for my needs, and strong enough to put up with being talentlessly bashed round rocky trail centre routes?
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    Some of the Merlin builds come up a lot lighter for less money and are just as strong, the Merlin Equalizer deal is brilliant, 1900g wheels for £60 (although centrelock discs are a bit heavier than 6-bolt).
  • Kowalski675Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    Some of the Merlin builds come up a lot lighter for less money and are just as strong,

    In comparison to which ones? Looking at Merlin's prices and the Spokedwheel website prices, Merlins are more expensive for the same spec builds.
    the Merlin Equalizer deal is brilliant, 1900g wheels for £60 (although centrelock discs are a bit heavier than 6-bolt).

    Equalizer deal?
  • zx6manzx6man Posts: 1,092
    You weren't going mad with a jet wash cleaning it or anything? Did that with my front "WPP" and it just washed out all the grease :-) even though I thought I wasn't going too close.
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