My amazing life

VTech

@bernthebiker, most people dont realise. As you point out, having more doesnt mean you have more, in most cases it simply means you "OWE" more.
I remember the first house I bought, it was under £40k and I absolutely shiat myself worrying about the monthly payments for ages. I dont think about it now so much, not because I have no concern about the costs but because its now just another bill I pay (as we all do).
I have put on weight massively as I have worked more and where I used to be active I became more lazy (in the physical sense) hence cycling. I have thought more about mortality over the past few years as friends and colleagues have either been ill or died but life is what it has become so although I have commitments I have at the same time started to make changes, im happier for them but of course would prefer to do more change

ballysmate

But my issue with Dubai is once you have a system entirely dedicated to the pursuit, and the pursuant odious, obsequious ostentation, of money, all other values go out of the window and ones role as a functioning member of society (think of the old John Cleese and the two Ronnies "I know my place" sketch if you need a visual aid here) becomes redundant. Im quite happy to tar everyone associated with Dubai with the same brush because you cant, honestly, tell me hand on hart people are visiting or living in Dubai for their own betterment or for charitable ventures...how many folk songs have the chorus "he moved to Dubai and then.."

I will repeat my caveat, I have never been to Dubai, and therefore I accept I can't speak with the same authority as yourself.
So what if it is ostentatious, people have a right to spend their money as they wish. It does sound like a place I would hate, but I would not describe its visitors as 'oxygen thieves'. I visited Vegas, hated it, left as soon as possible, but would never denigrate anyone who likes the place.
So what if people forget their place in society for a few days/weeks. If you are holding that sketch up as a true analogy, why should people look up or down on people, due to perceived status?
As far as I know, there are no folk songs written about the old mining town where I live, unless there is a song,'I was raised in a shithole...'

4kicks

LOL at the mining town
Perhaps the sketch was a poor analogy (I cant actually remember what it said!) just the idea that we need to define ourselves as a part of society, aware that all income levels have something to contribute and how we interact with others is important, and whilst I do agree that how people spend their money is their own perogative, UP UNTIL THE POINT it becomes "I have more toys, I win"...surely we can appreciate how superficial a society where posting a photo of my car to show how much money Ive got on the internet is considered a good thing.. And actually this might sound like I'm still having a go at VTech, Im not as IMHO hes somewhat redeemed himself by his conduct on the forum, I think we need to try and change what people consider important. Given Organised religion and Politicians blatant failure to act as forces for moral change, Ive decided to start here in a cycling forum. Changing the world one spoke at a time

daviesee

4kicks wrote:

.... Ive decided to start here in a cycling forum. Changing the world one spoke at a time

You'll just end up going round in circles.

ballysmate

4kicks wrote:

LOL at the mining town
Perhaps the sketch was a poor analogy (I cant actually remember what it said!) just the idea that we need to define ourselves as a part of society, aware that all income levels have something to contribute and how we interact with others is important, and whilst I do agree that how people spend their money is their own perogative, UP UNTIL THE POINT it becomes "I have more toys, I win"...surely we can appreciate how superficial a society where posting a photo of my car to show how much money Ive got on the internet is considered a good thing.. And actually this might sound like I'm still having a go at VTech, Im not as IMHO hes somewhat redeemed himself by his conduct on the forum, I think we need to try and change what people consider important. Given Organised religion and Politicians blatant failure to act as forces for moral change, Ive decided to start here in a cycling forum. Changing the world one spoke at a time

Arrrh. Don't get me started on organised religion!

junglist_matty

4kicks wrote:

Ive decided to start here in a cycling forum. Changing the world one spoke at a time

I started almost 20 years ago with voluntary charity work (with my mum) and since earning, donating a good sum of money each month to those less well off than myself..... I could probably have bought myself a really nice car with the money I've donated, instead, I share a 13year old Renault Clio with my partner and commute by bike every day.

Greed is the single biggest problem of the human race, and will destroy the world one day..... So idiots like VTech who seemingly think they are doing good for others buy killing themselves working for that extra bit of cash, to the extent of missing family holidays then coming onto a forum to blag about how much they have but how much they have to sacrifice are saying this simply to make themselves feel better about how greedy they are.... I'm sure his kids would much rather have a dad who gives them time than a swimming pool or underground garage/playpen, and that's the sad truth about the matter.

4kicks

actually just to pull you up on one point - I get to play with my kids every day, and I suspect they would probably prefer the money

VTech

junglist_matty wrote:

4kicks wrote:

Ive decided to start here in a cycling forum. Changing the world one spoke at a time

I started almost 20 years ago with voluntary charity work (with my mum) and since earning, donating a good sum of money each month to those less well off than myself..... I could probably have bought myself a really nice car with the money I've donated, instead, I share a 13year old Renault Clio with my partner and commute by bike every day.

Greed is the single biggest problem of the human race, and will destroy the world one day..... So idiots like VTech who seemingly think they are doing good for others buy killing themselves working for that extra bit of cash, to the extent of missing family holidays then coming onto a forum to blag about how much they have but how much they have to sacrifice are saying this simply to make themselves feel better about how greedy they are.... I'm sure his kids would much rather have a dad who gives them time than a swimming pool or underground garage/playpen, and that's the sad truth about the matter.

I cant argue (apart from negative attitude method you use) my kids would rather have me around, they just went on holiday with mom and wanted me their but I was working away. I would have preferred to be with them but it wasnt possible as the wife didnt want to go to Dubai, she doesnt like it
Also, I would argue that me posting about the garage isnt a bragging thing, its a hole in the ground and somewhere to park cars, its a modern thing that many people have. I often play the game here on this forum, like the other day when I posted pics of the seat on the plane together with some other rubbish, these were in fact taken to send to my kids about their dads journey but used here to wind someone up who was trying to do the same to me. There is nothing special in my mind about having a decent flight which I have in fact not paid for myself.

When I first came to the forum I wasnt really used to the way things are done or the way people get attacked (the common word used for bullying is trolling) I walked into a few issues without realising, maybe naively thinking that having a carbon bike as a first bike wouldnt be such an issue.
I had a few weird methods like using the trainer instead of cycling the road as I didnt feel fit enough or skilled enough to just jump onto the road on a bike I wasnt used too, I actually think that my method worked for me as I feel confident and am clearly much fitter now.

At the end of the day, people make choices, some good, some bad, I make both, but regardless, I live by them and always at least try to do the right thing. My wife may not agree, and just like has been mentioned by various people, money means nothing, when im gone all that matters is that the kids have fond memories so I must try harder to make that happen.

4kicks

sorry, you've now become a "shibboleth"; a Moby Dick against which all the would be captain Ahabs of this forum can rant and rage. If you like I can post photos of my three swimming pools so I can replace you as a target...My quarrel isn't with you, its the societal values which make stuff seem important. Of course there is a tradeoff, whenever you have options you have them, and Im sure youre quite a nice chap really...

seanoconn

junglist_matty wrote:

4kicks wrote:

Ive decided to start here in a cycling forum. Changing the world one spoke at a time

I started almost 20 years ago with voluntary charity work (with my mum) and since earning, donating a good sum of money each month to those less well off than myself..... I could probably have bought myself a really nice car with the money I've donated, instead, I share a 13year old Renault Clio with my partner and commute by bike every day.

I don't like to brag about my endless charity work either

graham.

Can I just say that a rich person is not the one who has the most, but is one who needs the least.
That's all, please carry on.

ballysmate

junglist_matty wrote:

4kicks wrote:

Ive decided to start here in a cycling forum. Changing the world one spoke at a time

I started almost 20 years ago with voluntary charity work (with my mum) and since earning, donating a good sum of money each month to those less well off than myself..... I could probably have bought myself a really nice car with the money I've donated, instead, I share a 13year old Renault Clio with my partner and commute by bike every day.

Greed is the single biggest problem of the human race, and will destroy the world one day..... So idiots like VTech who seemingly think they are doing good for others buy killing themselves working for that extra bit of cash, to the extent of missing family holidays then coming onto a forum to blag about how much they have but how much they have to sacrifice are saying this simply to make themselves feel better about how greedy they are.... I'm sure his kids would much rather have a dad who gives them time than a swimming pool or underground garage/playpen, and that's the sad truth about the matter.

As I said to Nathan earlier, there is no blueprint for how each individual leads their lives. As long as people stay legal, they are free to exercise their freedom of choice. People do make good and bad decisions and have to live with them. It is their life to live as they see fit, even if others can't understand their point of view.

Well done on your charity work. I don't talk about mine either, and I wear a hair shirt under my lycra.

As regards your car, perhaps VTech could do you a deal on one of his fleet after he has done with them.

VTech

Thing is, people like jungliest_matty dont really have an argument, its a more wierd way of thinking than the people he so despises.

Imagine the world as a place where you earn what you need to live and then dont work further through fear of being greedy, what is greedy ? what is enough ?
Is a mud hut enough, or a 1 bed flat for a family of 3 ? after all, you can live in both.

When I grew up my mom/dad had nothing, my mother grew up with nothing and I didnt want to be like that.
My friends and family had little/nothing and I decided that my sole aim in life was to move to a better area, have a nice car and not worry about paying bills. Isnt that what most people from council estates think ?

4kicks

Ahhhhhgh.. all that hard work and then you are undoing it by a post like that....
Of course there is no absolute empirical measure of "how much is enough", and of course there is a desire to better yourself relative to your peers and your ancestors, but at the point at which your decisions are all taken on the basis of maximizing current or future income, you can probably see the tipping point of avarice in your rear view mirror.
Set your own target, by all means, but set one and live by it.

VTech

4kicks wrote:

Ahhhhhgh.. all that hard work and then you are undoing it by a post like that....
Of course there is no absolute empirical measure of "how much is enough", and of course there is a desire to better yourself relative to your peers and your ancestors, but at the point at which your decisions are all taken on the basis of maximizing current or future income, you can probably see the tipping point of avarice in your rear view mirror.
Set your own target, by all means, but set one and live by it.

Its the truth though, as I grew up I wanted more, often to a point where I worked to get that more than was healthy or wise. As ive got older ive changed to wanting more for my kids/wife. Recently ive realised they just want me to slow down and spend more time at home. People change a lot as they go through life.

nathancom

It is all vanity in the end though to chase more money even though you already have a comfortable existence. Money doesn't make you a better person, doesn't make you happier and doesn't impress most people.

Whenever I have gone through periods of buying stuff I have quickly found it almost addictive, the need to have something else new and shiny to replace the toy that has become a little less exciting than it was. There wasn't anything enjoyable about spending the money, it was simply scratching an itch. Consequently, it feels much more enjoyable to not rely on spending money to enjoy life but instead to spend time with friends and family, to feel a part of your surroundings and to choose aims that in no way rely upon money as a scorecard.

In response to Ballysmate, it seems time to create an alternative to this world where we hang upon the latest interest and inflation rates, where bankers are headline news and where the rapacious and greedy are called 'entrepreneurs' or 'progressives'. The ability to create markets and to engender previously unknown or non-existent wants in the populace at large is not necessarily a good thing, whatever The Sunday Times Rich List might try to suggest.

ballysmate

nathancom wrote:

In response to Ballysmate, it seems time to create an alternative to this world where we hang upon the latest interest and inflation rates, where bankers are headline news and where the rapacious and greedy are called 'entrepreneurs' or 'progressives'. The ability to create markets and to engender previously unknown or non-existent wants in the populace at large is not necessarily a good thing, whatever The Sunday Times Rich List might try to suggest.

Yeah, let's live in a commune, work in co-operatives and start each day with a group hug.

pinno

nathancom wrote:

It is all vanity in the end though to chase more money even though you already have a comfortable existence. Money doesn't make you a better person, doesn't make you happier and doesn't impress most people.

Whenever I have gone through periods of buying stuff I have quickly found it almost addictive, the need to have something else new and shiny to replace the toy that has become a little less exciting than it was. There wasn't anything enjoyable about spending the money, it was simply scratching an itch. Consequently, it feels much more enjoyable to not rely on spending money to enjoy life but instead to spend time with friends and family, to feel a part of your surroundings and to choose aims that in no way rely upon money as a scorecard.

In response to Ballysmate, it seems time to create an alternative to this world where we hang upon the latest interest and inflation rates, where bankers are headline news and where the rapacious and greedy are called 'entrepreneurs' or 'progressives'. The ability to create markets and to engender previously unknown or non-existent wants in the populace at large is not necessarily a good thing, whatever The Sunday Times Rich List might try to suggest.

Vote for me.

nathancom

I want to vote for Richard Pryor...

desertman01

Excuse me for being a little late to this thread - I have been in the Middle east for almost 20 years and have my family with me and enjoy a very nice lifestyle. We have properties in UK, Thailand and New Zealand, the thing is we are way past the point of having to stay here for financial reasons. We choose to be here for a better and safer place to educate our children. Try and explain that to your average Brit and it is impossible - it hurts me to say that Britain is now a place I no longer want any part of and it is not down to the immigrants but the British mentality.

FocusZing

Deleted.

MountainMonster

desertman01 wrote:

Excuse me for being a little late to this thread - I have been in the Middle east for almost 20 years and have my family with me and enjoy a very nice lifestyle. We have properties in UK, Thailand and New Zealand, the thing is we are way past the point of having to stay here for financial reasons. We choose to be here for a better and safer place to educate our children. Try and explain that to your average Brit and it is impossible - it hurts me to say that Britain is now a place I no longer want any part of and it is not down to the immigrants but the British mentality.

It is changing quite a lot. Have you heard of the EDL yet? They are a group campaigning to get Muslims kicked out of the country for "being hateful terrorists", however the majority of members and people who support the EDL are by their own definition hateful terrorists, and are much worse than the cause they are trying to fight.

the playing mantis

@ MM not quite true now is it what uve said there. (btw despite being a little englander, in many ways im not standing up for the edl, they are undoubedtly lots of 'scum' there, just saying your comment above is somehwat oversimplified, but thats not debate 4 here).

getting back 2 point, wow how did i miss this thread!! some vtech bashing, some awkwardness about linkedin (how tf does linked in work, its spooky how it knows i know ppl without mutual connections) buddies coming to blows, a vtech rival highflyer (but a seemingly a serious one, needing to adopt vtechs good spirit of taking it and giving it (not in a homoerotic way i might add), then some serious psychoanology about greed, consumption, work life balance, and the pschology behind it. This place is deep....

VTech

In reality it wasn't a bad thread. Life needs, and has all kinds of people and this thread proved that.

raymondo60

desertman01 wrote:

Excuse me for being a little late to this thread - I have been in the Middle east for almost 20 years and have my family with me and enjoy a very nice lifestyle. We have properties in UK, Thailand and New Zealand, the thing is we are way past the point of having to stay here for financial reasons. We choose to be here for a better and safer place to educate our children. Try and explain that to your average Brit and it is impossible - it hurts me to say that Britain is now a place I no longer want any part of and it is not down to the immigrants but the British mentality.

I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with you here. I f*****g love my country - NOT to the point of xenophobia - but because, when it's good, it's a really good place to live. However, we are now suffering from having whole generations of British people being paid for doing nothing basically - i.e. being on benefits as a lifestyle choice. And I am NOT a rabid Tory/BNP type - I think of myself as an old fashioned Socialist/Social Democrat - I think the Welfare State is a great tool to help those people who genuinely cannot help themselves, but to support whole families who choose not to try and achieve something better for themselves is crazy. It also polarizes society, because there are millions of Brits who hate the idea of ANYONE being on benefits, whether they are a deserving case or not. So sad because this really is a fabulous country..................

Mikey23

Yup, and been like it since the early 70s when I joined the benefits agency... I used to be a benefit fraud investigator and could tell many a tale if I was allowed. The systems are too vast and unwieldy to have any effective control over and for too many, welfare dependency is a way of life. Many of the current ones are second generation and have never seen a legally working role model.

ballysmate

Any of these your clients, VTech.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mafia.html

VTech

Yoshimoto is a client of mine.
I fly out to meet the supplier of that Lamborghini in the morning, it's amazing at just how many they are shifting considering the so called economic bad times were in.