Santa Cruz Bronson - what spec?

notax

I am seriously considering adding a carbon Bronson to my bike collection which currently consists of a SC original Blur 140mm travel, All mountain style Orange 5 (with Formula The One brakes, 150mm forks, Crossmax SX wheels etc) and a freeride SC Bullit with 200mm travel. The Bronson will replace my Orange 5 which at size18 has always been a bit long for me.

Anyway, wondering what spec to go for? It will be my regular trail bike, so I want light weight with good strength. They offer builds with single chain ring or double but not the 3 x 10 I'm used to, not sure the £1500 Enve wheels are worth buying, any views?

It'll be interesting to see how it rides with 150mm versus the Bullit with 200mm, maybe it could replace the Bullit too?

The Rookie

2x10 with double specific rings offers pretty much the whole range you'd get with a triple bar the very lowest gears, but I presume you don't want to be winching it up some LONG steep hills anyway?

njee20

If you're considering £1500 Enve wheels surely it has to be XX1?

notax

The Beginner wrote:

2x10 with double specific rings offers pretty much the whole range you'd get with a triple bar the very lowest gears, but I presume you don't want to be winching it up some LONG steep hills anyway?

Thanks, I don't think long hills would be such a problem, its more the short very steep technical sections I often ride. Not sure which of the very lowest gears I'd lose, ie whether the lowest in 2 x 10 would be equivalent to middle granny ring. I know there are different ratios available but no idea how to compare them!

notax

njee20 wrote:

If you're considering £1500 Enve wheels surely it has to be XX1?

Yes, that's the spec they come on, but not convinced they are worth £1500 extra, I've always used Crossmax in the past SL and SX and may consider some SLRs this time. I only weigh 11 stone so they should stand up to general trail riding... Also I have doubts over 2 x10 so losing the front mech altogether seems a step too far!

lostboysaint

Find yourself a decent gearing calculator and then work out for yourself exactly what you'd be missing if you went 2x10. The answer is very, very little and if you're half fit then you'll quickly find that the "small" ring (usually somewhere around 26 or 27) on a 2x10 allied to a 36 sprocket at the back is perfectly good for the steepest, techiest climb.

njee20

And then work out that XX1 means you lose about 1 gear from that, and saves a massive chunk of weight, and just buy that ;-)

The Rookie

Except the gears are wider apart......that may or may not be an issue, but it's worth mentioning.

MsN, you need to 'figure out' what gears you use now (on the Orange as that is what you'll be replacing), work out that gear ratio and see if you can get it on 2x10.

lostboysaint

njee20 wrote:

And then work out that XX1 means you lose about 1 gear from that, and saves a massive chunk of weight, and just buy that ;-)

There is that, but one step at a time eh !

supersonic

I'd wait for the new Pikes, sound ideal for this build. XTR 2x10.

lostboysaint

No, no, no, no, no. Bos Deville.

jairaj

In my opinion the Enve wheels aren't worth it. You get traditional wheelsets close to the strength and weight of some of these carbon ones and only spend 40% of the money.

If you're loaded and got the money or really want to shave off every last gram then sure go for it. But something like a Stans Flow with fancy spokes and hubs can come in around 1600g for £500-600.

lostboysaint

jairaj wrote:

In my opinion the Enve wheels aren't worth it. You get traditional wheelsets close to the strength and weight of some of these carbon ones and only spend 40% of the money.

If you're loaded and got the money or really want to shave off every last gram then sure go for it. But something like a Stans Flow with fancy spokes and hubs can come in around 1600g for £500-600.

In 650b size? Really? With Chris Kings the weight of the rims and hubs alone would be circa 1500g. If you then add 280g worth of DT Revolutions or similar you're a way above your 1600g.

The rim weight alone is circa 500g. So 1kg of rims you've got to get seriously light with the hubs and spokes.

supersonic

Chris King are not the way forward mind. Not Flows really, maybe the EX version, or Arch EX. DT 240, Arch EX and Super Comp spokes should be about 1550g.

jairaj

Ah yes I forgot about the 650b wheel size. Is still think its possible to get something around 1800g with Flows assuming they come in that size.

Or could go with the Arch EX as Supersonic says, but depends on what kinda of riding you're after? If the OP is looking to replace his Bullit too then the Flows would make sense otherwise Arch EX is better for a AM / Trail bike.

It won't be as light as the Enve wheelset but you'll save the best part of £1000 which you could spend on other components and possibly gain that weight saving back.

notax

Thanks, so now we've moved onto wheel choice I take it none of you like the Crossmax offerings? I've ridden different versions for the last 10 years and very rarely had any issues... Spoke replacement can be an issue on their older stuff but I have found it to be very stong and light.

lostboysaint

supersonic wrote:

Chris King are not the way forward mind. Not Flows really, maybe the EX version, or Arch EX. DT 240, Arch EX and Super Comp spokes should be about 1550g.

I didn't say they were, they are just quite light DT Supercomps are heavier than the Revolutions that I quoted, which again I did because I was trying to hit this mythical 1600g target. I wouldn't trust them in a build for an AM bike (assuming the OP is actually going to ride it as an AM bike).

And Jairaj yes, the Flows are available in 650B.

And Notax - have you checked that Crossmax are available in 650B. You do realise that the Bronson is a 650B wheeled-bike don't you?!

supersonic

I always find Mavic full builds to cost twice what they are really worth compared to custom builds.

notax

Lostboysaint - that's a very good point, I know the Bronson is 650B (part of the appeal is to try something a bit different) but had forgotten that fact since we'd moved onto wheels! Crossmax SLR should be available in 650b but aren't yet. What do you all think of the SC non Enve wheel WTB ST i23 TCS rims with Shimano M758 hubs, 15mm bolt thro, DT 14 guage spokes and brass nipples? Worth upgrading and seeing if LBS would swap for something custom?

jairaj

What do you all think of the SC non Enve wheel WTB ST i23 TCS rims with Shimano M758 hubs, 15mm bolt thro, DT 14 guage spokes and brass nipples?

No actual experience of the rim but I'm thinking f buying some new wheels soon so done a bit of reading on them. They are very comparable to Stans Arch rims, similar weight, intended use and are tubeless too. The wheelset has some good components but won't be super light. Good for the money but if you are prepared to spend more you can get a lighter setup. ie Supersonic's suggestion above.

I wonder how different the bike would feel if you used 26" wheels but with high volume tyres something like a Conti Rubber Queen. I suppose the geo would stay the same but the BB height would drop?

supersonic

What do you all think of the SC non Enve wheel WTB ST i23 TCS rims with Shimano M758 hubs, 15mm bolt thro, DT 14 guage spokes and brass nipples?

The rims are about the same weigth as Flows, but you want double butted spokes at least (DT Comp 14/15, SuperComp - maybe even Revolution given you are only 11 stone). The hubs are ancient and heavy, I'd be looking at the newer Centrelock XT and XTR.

lawman

Forget the off the shelf specs, they are shocking value for money. Enves not really worth the extra. Personally, and I am considering the Bronson as my next bike as well, I'd wait til SRAM or shimano bring out cheaper 1x11 groupsets, get some industry nine torch wheels and top off with whatever finishing kit takes your fancy. Shimano brakes obviously. Pikes or Fox 34's now they've sorted the compression out hopefully. As for whether it can replace the bullit, I'd day unless you do some proper DH stuff then I'd say it'll be fine with the right build. Had an absolute blast at Antor on my HD and that only has 140mm travel. The bronson does look like a proper quiver killer and I can't wait to ride one, already scheming on how I can afford one!

notax

Thanks, I am tempted to buy a carbon frame and buy the bits myself. I could also take various parts off the Orange as I have everything it came with as standard so could sell it as standard. Still not sure about the 1 x 11 argument, I think 2 x 10 is where I'd start, weight penalty can't be that huge. Which 150mm fork would you all go for?

supersonic

The new Pike. Out in June I believe.

Kowalski675

Notax wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

I know there are different ratios available but no idea how to compare them!

Just divide the number of teeth on the front chainring by the number of teeth on the rear sprocket. That gives you a numerical figure for each gear that you can use as a direct comparison.

For example, if (just for the sake of simplicity) there's 45 teeth on the front ring and 15 teeth on the rear sprocket then the ratio for that gear is 1:3 (for every one turn of the chainwheel the rear wheel turns 3 times).

The Rookie

Notax wrote:

I think 2 x 10 is where I'd start, weight penalty can't be that huge.

Front shifter, circa 110g, cable and outer circa 40g, front mech circa 135g = 285g, offset that with a chainguide if you don't totally trust it at circa 65g and you have a 220g saving give or take a few gs.

notax

Thanks, but I think that proves my point, it would surely be very hard to feel a 220g difference - unless it was in the wheels or tyres and rotational? I guess every little helps, I think I'll ask what people's opinions are having swapped from 3 x 10 to 2 x 10 on a new thread

njee20

Even then it won't make much difference, red herring. However... save 0.5lbs from all the major parts and then you will notice it! XX1 is bloody light too, so unless you're thinking of XTR/XX (which is quite likely) there's a weight penalty there.

felix.london

Notax wrote:

Thanks, but I think that proves my point, it would surely be very hard to feel a 220g difference - unless it was in the wheels or tyres and rotational? I guess every little helps, I think I'll ask what people's opinions are having swapped from 3 x 10 to 2 x 10 on a new thread

I went from 3x9 to 2x10 (22/36 x 11-32) and love it. Don't miss the big ring one bit and can get up pretty much everything that I'd want to ride up (on my 12kg 'hopper)

The next build which is gonna come in at over 14kg to start with I'm going 2x10 (22/34 x 11-34)

Guess it depends where you ride but 'round these parts 2x10 just makes more sense

lawman

I went from 3x9 to 2x9, then went 2x10 to 1x10 and I won't be going back to a double. 1x is lighter, the chain is more secure with some kind of guide or wide/narrow chainring and the newer super-wide range cassettes could give you that one extra I very rarely wish for. Obviously it depends on your fitness but IMO 1x11 and the super-wide cassettes are the way forward. Just makes more sense IMO

felix.london

yep - when they (1x11's) come down in price that is obviously the way forward. But for now I don't think 1x10 has low enough ratios to get me up big mountains

how much difference is there between a 22x32 lowest gear and a 32x36?