Juicys. Bleed? Replace?
Yacoby
Posts: 211
I have some old juicys that I have put on a new build. The down side is that they have a lot of free moment before you start to feel the brake engage. (Like half the travel of the leaver)
Took it to a bike shop (exam time and I CBA with Dot 4/5/whatever) and they said
* They can bleed it
* They can't guarantee it will be any better
* For the most part they take Juicys off and put them in the bin
Adding new pads in the rear brake seems to have fixed the issue for the rear brake at least. (Not actually ridden it properly yet though)
The primary purpose of this build was to do the Alps, DH and Enduro stuff.
So I have several options:
* Don't bother bleeding, ride it for a bit and see if it is an issue. The downside is that I am out in France for two weeks and don't want to find I have a problem there.
* Bleed it now.
* Buy a set of XTs/SLX brakes and use the Avids as spares.
While the latter would be ideal, it is a lot of money so I am not keen on it for that reason. So is it worth me asking the shop to bleed the brakes (or at least the front)? In other words, how likely is it that it will fix the issue?
Took it to a bike shop (exam time and I CBA with Dot 4/5/whatever) and they said
* They can bleed it
* They can't guarantee it will be any better
* For the most part they take Juicys off and put them in the bin
Adding new pads in the rear brake seems to have fixed the issue for the rear brake at least. (Not actually ridden it properly yet though)
The primary purpose of this build was to do the Alps, DH and Enduro stuff.
So I have several options:
* Don't bother bleeding, ride it for a bit and see if it is an issue. The downside is that I am out in France for two weeks and don't want to find I have a problem there.
* Bleed it now.
* Buy a set of XTs/SLX brakes and use the Avids as spares.
While the latter would be ideal, it is a lot of money so I am not keen on it for that reason. So is it worth me asking the shop to bleed the brakes (or at least the front)? In other words, how likely is it that it will fix the issue?
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Comments
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If you do an analysis of what is happening it's not hard to work out whether the poor braking is
1/ Pads need advancing (long lever travel, you can see the pads moving)
2/ Needs a blled (long lever travel, can't see pads moving)
3/ Contaminated needs new pads.
Why people get brakes bled before seeing if they need it is beyond me, they rarely do, assuming they were OK to start with where/how did the air get in and the fluid out?Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
Sweet. From what I can see they probably just needs advancing then.The Beginner wrote:If you do an analysis of what is happening it's not hard to work out whether the poor braking is
1/ Pads need advancing (long lever travel, you can see the pads moving)
2/ Needs a blled (long lever travel, can't see pads moving)
3/ Contaminated needs new pads.
Because I didn't know about pads needing to be advanced?Why people get brakes bled before seeing if they need it is beyond me, they rarely do, assuming they were OK to start with where/how did the air get in and the fluid out?
Anyway. Cheers.0 -
Seems everyone knows about bleeding, very few about advancing, money for old rope for unscrupulous shops!Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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Ok, so advancing the pads didn't work, and looking again there is no movement for a lot of the travel.
Damn.0 -
bleed them . I just bruaght a second hand bike and i am bleeding them so I know there done and out of the way. I never knew about advancing though will look it upI am sorry if I talk to much s@#t it goes with the name.............0
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Bleeding used to sort this issue out for me, but replace it with another issue which is you cant change the pads because the pistons won't retract.0
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That's called overfilling, if you bleed with the bleedblocks in place you can't overfill.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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Yeah, but they always felt crap when i did it with the bleed block.0
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i always bleed my elixirs with the new pads already in ,saves time and theres no chance of not being able to fit the pads in afterwards, just make sure you dont spill the brake fluid on the new pads, never done that myself yet but theres always the first time lol, especially when in a rush in a pub car park0
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just put deores on.sorted.
you dont need to go to the exspense of xts to improve on avids.Death or Glory- Just another Story0 -
Although needing to take fluid out when you want to change the pads sounds ideal...steviecapt wrote:i always bleed my elixirs with the new pads already in ,saves time and theres no chance of not being able to fit the pads in afterwards, just make sure you dont spill the brake fluid on the new pads, never done that myself yet but theres always the first time lol, especially when in a rush in a pub car park
(Sarcasm
)mattshrops wrote:just put deores on.sorted.
But XTs are shiny
It is £4 worth of DOT fluid to try bleeding them. I have other things I would prefer to spend money on before brakes. (Like a chainguide that fits the 32 tooth chainring I am running) In any case looking at things I would probably get the SLX for the new calliper design.0 -
If the job's done properly, you should never need to let fluid out, and if you are bleeding brakes more often than every few years at a minimum, they either don't need it or you are misdiagnosing a problem. Point of fact they should never really need bleeding, but a fluid change every few years can't do any harm.I don't do smileys.
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Parktools0 -
These brakes are old... Like 4 - 5 years at least. So it is worth a try.cooldad wrote:If the job's done properly, you should never need to let fluid out, and if you are bleeding brakes more often than every few years at a minimum, they either don't need it or you are misdiagnosing a problem.0 -
Probably bcause you didn't then advance the pads......bennett_346 wrote:Yeah, but they always felt crap when i did it with the bleed block.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
if the brakes are 5yr old and not serviced id simply strip clean and fit new seals and refill with new fluid..
the seal is what pulls the piston and pad back off the disc and the need to "advance the pads is a myth btw" wont be necessary as the system simply sorts that itself (ie when new pads fitted to the car or motorcycle , do you have to do this ?? no course you dont as the pistons simply take up slack as pads wear and why you have a fluid reservoir so fluid can allow this ..
hydraulic systems work best when clean and correctly filled ..
pasds work best when clean and correctly bedded in .. also maybe a sintered pad for an alp trip as better heat dispersal
if you had cable brakes its a different matter of course as they do need the pads advancing via cable adjustment and caliper setting ...
hth0 -
If the need to advance the pads is a myth, why is it in the SRAM documentation?Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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The Beginner wrote:If the need to advance the pads is a myth, why is it in the SRAM documentation?
so what your saying is pull lever a few times so pads close up and then try and force caliper onto disc?
the system does this for you and why the need to self adjust isn't necessary
can you imaging the claims if people had accidents because the hadn't advanced their pads???
ill leave you to it bud0 -
You seem obsessed with this method. Have you not yet understood that it does not work for some people's brakes?The Beginner wrote:
Probably bcause you didn't then advance the pads......bennett_346 wrote:Yeah, but they always felt crap when i did it with the bleed block.
I must of tried it a hundred times to no avail. They're just shyte brakes, simply put.0 -
bennett_346 wrote:
You seem obsessed with this method. Have you not yet understood that it does not work for some people's brakes?The Beginner wrote:
Probably bcause you didn't then advance the pads......bennett_346 wrote:Yeah, but they always felt crap when i did it with the bleed block.
I must have tried it a hundred times to no avail. They're just shyte brakes, simply put.
difficult to argue with that statement
i put shimano deores on all my bikes from Merlin cycles "what a bargain" http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/m ... -rear.html
there just great after avids hayes tecktro etc brakes that were oe fitment on the bikes i have
i cant afford hopes or XT range etc but then i dont go down Alp runs so not needed
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Yep. I know they are fairly crap brakes. The donwside is that if I went down that route I would start saying like "The totems stansions are scratched, maybe I should get some new forks" etc etc etc. I may as well try to get them working to my satisfaction for £5 of DOT fluid before forking out £100 for some SLX from Rose.
Quick question, how much would I need for two brakes? Is 125ml (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=29900) Ok or should I head out to a car place and buy a bigger bottle. Apparently it absorbs water fairly rapidly so isn't worth buying in bulk. (I know all DOT5.1 is the same. But CRC offer free shipping and if I am not going to use more than 125ml there is no point buying a bigger more costly (but better value) bottle)0 -
Yacoby wrote:Yep. I know they are fairly crap brakes. The donwside is that if I went down that route I would start saying like "The totems stansions are scratched, maybe I should get some new forks" etc etc etc. I may as well try to get them working to my satisfaction for £5 of DOT fluid before forking out £100 for some SLX from Rose.
Quick question, how much would I need for two brakes? Is 125ml (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=29900) Ok or should I head out to a car place and buy a bigger bottle. Apparently it absorbs water fairly rapidly so isn't worth buying in bulk. (I know all DOT5.1 is the same. But CRC offer free shipping and if I am not going to use more than 125ml there is no point buying a bigger more costly (but better value) bottle)
that's fine or simply get a bottle of halfords brake fluid 5.1 etc
do both the pistons push in easily ? as i do think you may have sticky pistons...0 -
No idea. Or rather I have no idea how easy it is to do normally.do both the pistons push in easily ? as i do think you may have sticky pistons...
I'll see how bleeding goes. If they are still crap I can't really be arsed throwing good money after bad tbh and I would just use them as is till I could afford some SLXs.0 -
Might be a silly question - do you have the syringes etc for bleeding? If not then you will need more than just the DOT fluid.0
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It does not work on all, no and yes I have changed to XT's and they are much better, but it's stupid to condemn them without trying it isn't it? 5 mins and no cost to see if it fixes it sounds like a no brainer......argh I see the irony in that.....bennett_346 wrote:
You seem obsessed with this method. Have you not yet understood that it does not work for some people's brakes?The Beginner wrote:
Probably bcause you didn't then advance the pads......bennett_346 wrote:Yeah, but they always felt crap when i did it with the bleed block.
I must have tried it a hundred times to no avail. They're just shyte brakes, simply put.
Yours may have been shite as you didn't follow instructions on how to maintain them.....Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
I never condemned them once. I told him how i solved the situation when the pad advancing didn't work then said they were a bit crap. I never actually suggested he buy new brakes.
Also, instructions on how to maintain them? Please elaborate.0 -
Like using the bleed blocks, if you don't attempt to maintain as the manufatucrer suggests you'll never know if the item is shite or the maintenance.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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If i didn't use the brake blocks first how would i have known it didn't work right on my pair?
Your comprehension skills are diabolical mate.0 -
EXACTLY, at no point did you mention you used them, my comprehension is better than your expression innit!Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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not to interfere with the above arguments .....
Yacoby
Problem i think you MAY have with your brakes is that some corrosion or dirt has made the seals tight? plus you may have shitty pads that are contaminated??
often the cause after long periods of no use or riding in winter etc dreaded salt on roads
what often happens is the seal grove in the caliper half's gets dirty and this simply pushes the seal out so it doesn't allow the pistons to retract properly and this gives a poor brake lever and draggy brakes .
so a full strip and thorough clean will solve all piston issues unless the pistons are damaged "you would get leakage if there fubared"
so if you can do a strip and service then a bleed you will have decent brakes again assuming pads are also clean and not oily?
if you do this use new brake fluid on assembly or a red rubber grease on seals and pistons as this will aid insertion + seals must not get contaminated with dirt or petroleum based oils etc
if you are ok with trying this procedure you will have good brakes again But if you are in any doubt or dont have the tools etc try the lbs as its a simple job for those who do it regularly ..
there are some guids on the net ie you tube so have a good look before attemting so you know what to expect.
if the seals are ok it will be a bottle of fluid and jobs a good un
hth0
