Local election results
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:I'm not concerned about UKIP.
They're still not credible on any issue beyond the EU, and even their position on that is that of a child.
Their manifesto reads like something written after a few pints at the pub. The figures don't add up, the policies are not thought through to their logical end. Generally they're not a smart bunch.
They'll soon lose their protest vote profile. It can only last so long when you have people in power. I'm confident their lack of governance ability compared to the other parties will come to the fore soon enough.
UKIP sell a main policy they can't deliver outside of an overall parliamentary majority. They're unlikely to get this, and that retention of their vote on that promise even more difficult, and thus in ever decreasing circles. See also every mid-term success of populist politics ever.
UKIP do get an absolute sweetheart deal from the press, though. They've coasted for years on all the stock "EU Madness" stories the papers print, stories based usually on naught but pish and wind. If any party could persuade the press not to print the blatant fabrications on the EU (and the HSE, ECHR and the HRA) and pass off the end of the "madness" as their own work, they'd be home and dry for a decade.0 -
Alain Quay wrote:The elderly UKIP voters want the pension and they want to save all their inherited wealth, pay low taxes, have a comprehensive NHS for free, stop foreigners entering the UK, etc. They think climate change is bs and they want to bring back smoking in pubs, hunting, etc. Comedy gold, but people voted for it.
I haven't seen the demograph of the turnout at the election, but if you are right, a lot of old folks took the trouble to vote!
The elderly, not just UKIP elderly, are entitled to a maximum pension of £110 per week. This I believe will rise to around £144 in a few years. The Living Wage Foundation sets their rate at £342 in London and £298 outside. So pensioners aren't being kept in a life of luxury. There is scope to restrict other universal benefits, such as heating allowance though.
As regards inherited wealth, the elderly tend not to inherit wealth but bequeath it, for what I thought was a fairly obvious reason. Inheritance tax may be liable on their estate, post mortem, the threshold being £325,000. ie To be paid by their children, grandchildren or whoever else inherits.
As regards the NHS, they are saddled with the same model as the rest of us. They do get the concession of free prescriptions, but they are not alone in that.
As for 'stopping foreigners entering the UK' , you surely do not need to be a member of UKIP or a pensioner to realise that immigration policy is a mess and needs to be addressed.
There are legitimate targets for your ire, but the elderly are not one of them.0 -
Alain Quay wrote:They think climate change is bs and they want to bring back smoking in pubs, hunting, etc. Comedy gold, but people voted for it.
Oh and as Mantis pointed out, this last bit is just made up.
Comedy gold indeed!0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I'm not concerned about UKIP.
They're still not credible on any issue beyond the EU, and even their position on that is that of a child.
how so??0 -
MaxwellBygraves wrote:Also love that they describe themselves as a 'libertarian, non-racist party'.
Alarm bells should surely ring when the first thing you have to introduce yourself as is 'non-racist'.
ut they have to. the threatened right label them as such to try to discredit them, the left do so as well for th same reason, and because some of them, somehow think putting restrictions on movement into a small dense island with finite resources is unethical.
i think people know ukip are not racist. if talking about restricting immigration was racist how come even millipede and the spineless lib dems are doing it. all parties are thus racist by proxy0 -
I think most people looking at the pronouncements of various UKIP figures might well need to be told they aren't racist. It's not purely their opposition to immigration that has granted them this reputation. Bear in mind their own co-founder left the party as it was "racist and infected by the far right" and was "less liberal than the BNP"0
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AchillesLeftKnee wrote:
Why should they bother? None of the three main parties give a flying crap about 'em, so there's absolutely nothing to rally to.Alain Quay wrote:Meanwhile, young people have tuition fees and loan debt, no traineeships or other government help, few jobs, short-term job contracts, poor pension arrangements, etc. But you would barely know. They should be bashing down the door of No. 10 Downing Street.
Firstly I have nothing against the elderly of course and I agree people will always vote out of self-interest. But young Britons are the future of the economy and get a raw deal compared withtheir equivalents in other countries. I work in a
university, and in UK universities professors are on very high salaries and don't have to retire at 65.
Theoretically they can work till aged 80+. You could employ 3 technologically savvy young postdocs with their salary.
The older population needs to give ground a bit, especially those who are very well off.0 -
"Young people 'almost three times more likely than adults' to be unemployed
UN agency warns of unrest with global youth unemployment forecast to reach 12.8% by 2018 after falling since 2009
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 8 May 2013 10.59 BST"0 -
I agree with you entirely. The problem is the solutions to so much of it run counter to what's been drummed into all and sundry as "good for the economy", and it'll take a sudden outbreak of self-awareness and altruism the like of which has never been seen for the situation to be turned around (...or a return to an inflation rate of about 5%, but that's by the byAlain Quay wrote:Firstly I have nothing against the elderly of course and I agree people will always vote out of self-interest. But young Britons are the future of the economy and get a raw deal compared withtheir equivalents in other countries. I work in a university, and in UK universities professors are on very high salaries and don't have to retire at 65.
Theoretically they can work till aged 80+. You could employ 3 technologically savvy young postdocs with their salary.
The older population needs to give ground a bit, especially those who are very well off.
). Mangeur0 -
This election was mainly located in the English shires. No surprise that an unpopular administration gets repudiated. UKIP would be better named the English Independence Party, their programme resonates well with an electorate without any choice except the party owned by big business now that the L/D have folded.
A political sage from the U S A (I forget the name :oops: ) describes parties such as UKIP and the Tea Party phenomenon, as 'Bees' they sting once and then they die. Nigel Farage should enjoy this moment, it won't get any better.'fool'0 -
the playing mantis wrote:Alain Quay wrote:The elderly UKIP voters want the pension and they want to save all their inherited wealth, pay low taxes, have a comprehensive NHS for free, stop foreigners entering the UK, etc. They think climate change is bs and they want to bring back smoking in pubs, hunting, etc. Comedy gold, but people voted for it.
and what is wrong with most of that, apart from your smoking made up comment and the extreme climate change comment.
It isn't made up. UKIP have come out in favour of repealing the ban. Farage was talking about it on R4 after the election. Their site is working particularly well today, but I have seen at least one manifesto in which they described man-made climate change as a hoax.the playing mantis wrote:whats wrong with looking after your own, or if your family has worked hard, keeping that money in the family rather than letting those who havnet get it???
I think the point is that a load of people expect world-class services but don't want to pay any taxes for them.0 -
johnfinch wrote:the playing mantis wrote:Alain Quay wrote:The elderly UKIP voters want the pension and they want to save all their inherited wealth, pay low taxes, have a comprehensive NHS for free, stop foreigners entering the UK, etc. They think climate change is bs and they want to bring back smoking in pubs, hunting, etc. Comedy gold, but people voted for it.
and what is wrong with most of that, apart from your smoking made up comment and the extreme climate change comment.
It isn't made up. UKIP have come out in favour of repealing the ban. Farage was talking about it on R4 after the election. Their site is working particularly well today, but I have seen at least one manifesto in which they described man-made climate change as a hoax.the playing mantis wrote:whats wrong with looking after your own, or if your family has worked hard, keeping that money in the family rather than letting those who havnet get it???
I think the point is that a load of people expect world-class services but don't want to pay any taxes for them.
Is Nigel Farage just wandering round with the same pint of bitter and his rotten teeth? He just spouts a load of nonsensical sh1te that you would expect to hear in the local boozer just before closing on a Saturday night. Just rubbish. There's just no substance to them and they'll jump on any bandwaggon for a bit of publicity. Isn't it the case overall that they've actually lost County Council seats north of Birmingham despite all this diatribe about changing the shape of British politics. I suppose if it weadles out a few of the far right from the Tories its no bad thing at least before they slip back in again we know who they are.0 -
I think that's over-simplifying it more than a bit. The link between tax payed and experience of services is, IMHO, tenuous at best because it all comes down to which services you use, which services you're entitled to use, and whether those services are actively working for or against you in the first place.johnfinch wrote:
I think the point is that a load of people expect world-class services but don't want to pay any taxes for them.the playing mantis wrote:whats wrong with looking after your own, or if your family has worked hard, keeping that money in the family rather than letting those who havnet get it???Mangeur0
