Local election results

Frank the tank

UKIP get 25% of all votes cast.

Is this just a protest vote or is there a genuine shift further to the right in British politics?

I would hope it's the former personally.

danlikesbikes

sadly probably a bit of both

finchy

It probably means that soon UKIP are going to have to make their policies on issues other than the EU a bit clearer, so they'll probably lose some of the support they've gained from Labour. Unless UKIP implode, the Tories could be screwed - move further to the right on social issues or they'll lose a large part of the Thatcherite vote, but if they do move right they'll lose voters from the centre.

Labour need to actually come up with a strategy and sense of purpose some time before the next election though.

Frank the tank

Whichever it may be UKIP will now over the next two years have to start using finer brush strokes rather than the broad ones employed up until now.

VTech

I voted last night for the same party as ive always voted for and the wife mentioned ukip at the booth. I said to her its a wasted vote for anyone who bothers.
How wrong was I ?!?

ballysmate

People's Front of Judea, that's the way forward!

AchillesLeftKnee

Frank the tank wrote:

Is this just a protest vote or is there a genuine shift further to the right in British politics?

Personally, I think it's more a case of an attempt to shift away from the current political setup than in any particular direction. Given that the traditional outlet for such votes - the LibDems - have now gone and spoiled it for themselves by revealing their hand (i.e. we want electoral reform, then *tumbleweed*) in power, the Tories are showing about as imagination, creativity, and long term sustainable policy as one would find in a pot of Muller Fruit Corner, and Labour's record was beyond shameful, I think it's hardly surprising a good few people are voting for anything but the usual rubbish.

For what it's worth, I am beyond amazed that we haven't seen a credit "proper" left of centre party emerge in the last few years.

Voting disclaimer : I don't vote in local elections. Having lived under Conservative, LibDem, Labour and hung councils, I can safely say that, in my opinion, they are indistinguishable. I wouldn't vote UKIP under any circumstances. They seem a bit nuts to me, and if I feel the need to protest at the ballot box I just spoil my paper.

Frank the tank

As I said earlier UKIP are now going to have to come up with proper policies relating to all manner of issues over the next two years, rather than we want out of europe and we're going to stop immigration blah,blah, blah!

AchillesLeftKnee

Not entirely sure that's the case. After all the LibDems got to where they currently are by clattering on about electoral reform, making the odd catchy but trivial tax commitment, and just by not being the Red or Blue team. I don't really see how immigration + we're not the other three is substantially different to what the LibDems offered.

Frank the tank

Only time will tell.

ballysmate

Ukip are not anywhere near being a party of government, as people have said, they have no detailed policies.They are not alone in that, the Labour party is coy about its future plans and it would appear that they would return to the free spending of the last government.
The present lot are neither fish nor foul. The Conservatives don't have the Parliamentary majority to adopt traditional Tory policies, and as for the LibDems, well......
The attraction of UKIP appears to be the belief that they are solely interested in putting Britains interests first. People are pi$$ed off with appeasing the EU, sometimes at the detriment of our interests and being shunted down a road we don't want to go. They are pi$$ed off playing world policeman and sending servicemen all over the world for who knows what. Rightly or wrongly,UKIP is seen as the only party offering a radical alternative.
At the moment, people are sending a message to the main parties, which needs to be heeded. At present I don't think they are credible as an alternative government, but merely a protest.

canny_lad

At the minute they're saying what a lot of people are thinking. Can they deliver? - would be nice if they could but I doubt it.

As Frank said, only time will tell. At least it's given the useless feckers something to think about.

verylonglegs

The immigration conundrum baffles me unless I'm missing something obvious. Labour, or the left, are seen as pro-immigration but it's effects are most felt by it's core voters, those on low wages find their wages suppressed even more as the influx of extra labour drives them down. The anti-immigration sentiment is classed as right-wing but its effects of keeping wages down and suppressing the low earners is often cited as classic desirable outcome of right-wing economic policy so theoretically shouldn't they be in favour? Is that right or have I got my logic wrong?

finchy

verylonglegs wrote:

The immigration conundrum baffles me unless I'm missing something obvious. Labour, or the left, are seen as pro-immigration but it's effects are most felt by it's core voters, those on low wages find their wages suppressed even more as the influx of extra labour drives them down. The anti-immigration sentiment is classed as right-wing but its effects of keeping wages down and suppressing the low earners is often cited as classic desirable outcome of right-wing economic policy so theoretically shouldn't they be in favour? Is that right or have I got my logic wrong?

I think you're making the mistake of attributing consistency to human beings.

dynamicbrick

It's all rather reminiscent of a few years ago when the BNP had an unexpected surge in support, and that odious git Griffin was wheeled out to face the Question Time rent-a-mob. The main parties bricked themselves, and ran round in circles trying to say lots of right things to everyone. Then we all forgot about it.

UKIP have put the wind up the main parties, and there now follows a phase of empty rhetoric about listening to hard working people, vague promises of EU referendum, and some airy commitments to tackle immigration. Then we'll all forget about it.

The electoral system in the UK is so geared towards a two party system that UKIP will never feature in parliament. It's a bit of freak occurrence we have a three party house at the moment - much of that I think was down to the protest vote over Labour at the last General Election.

Nonetheless, pedalling the line that a vote for UKIP/BNP/George Galloway's Ego Party is a vote wasted is simply playing into mainstream's hands to keep the status very much of the quo. You have a democratic right to vote for whoever, not only in an attempt to see them in power representing your beliefs, but also as a statement to them and their opponents that you, along with others, believe they represent your beliefs. If you think it's a vote wasted then write to you blue or red MP and ask them to put a bill through the commons banning other political parties that aren't them.

tim_wand

It cracked me up, that 3 members of the same family (The Ransomes) all won seats for UKIP in Boston.

Firstly and surely everyone in Boston who isnt an Immigrant is in the same family.

When Sue Ransome, one of the UKIP winning candidates was questioned on why she thought UKIP had been successfull in the area in gaining seats? she said the following:

"There is a high immigrant influx to the area; and we have taken a positive position on dealing with Potholes on the local highways".

Umh? gets my vote, you just got to look after those Carbon rims some how.

verylonglegs

johnfinch wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

The immigration conundrum baffles me unless I'm missing something obvious. Labour, or the left, are seen as pro-immigration but it's effects are most felt by it's core voters, those on low wages find their wages suppressed even more as the influx of extra labour drives them down. The anti-immigration sentiment is classed as right-wing but its effects of keeping wages down and suppressing the low earners is often cited as classic desirable outcome of right-wing economic policy so theoretically shouldn't they be in favour? Is that right or have I got my logic wrong?

I think you're making the mistake of attributing consistency to human beings.

Well your reply is somewhat reassuring. I have often thought that American politics suffers from a contradiction too in that the Republicans, the party of the religous right and bible belt, are always the most feverent opposers of benefits and good healthcare for all regardless of their position in society...which is in fact a very anti-christian viewpoint :? No wonder politics is so hard to fathom.

Tom Butcher

dynamicbrick wrote:

It's all rather reminiscent of a few years ago when the BNP had an unexpected surge in support, and that odious git Griffin was wheeled out to face the Question Time rent-a-mob. The main parties bricked themselves, and ran round in circles trying to say lots of right things to everyone. Then we all forgot about it.

Yes to an extent but UKIP are really drawing on the same discontent with immigration and the EU that led to the BNP getting that surge in support. The difference is UKIP do not carry the same stigma that the BNP do so have been able to turn that discontent into a far higher share of the vote than the BNP ever could.

All the main parties - but especially the Tories - have to take heed of yesterday's results if they want to be electable. No I don't expect UKIP ever to be a Parliamentary force but the Tories (and others come to that) can't just ignore this if they want to be electable and MPs aren't going to sit back if they think their party leader is going to cost them their seat.

random man

Mid-term elections always show a swing away from the party in government. Although UKIP may have 25% of the vote, they didn't get 25% of seats, except in Lincs, which is one benefit of our FPTP stystem.

the playing mantis

woo woo, watch out we're gonna get u!

the sole aim of ukip is to shift the tories right, or at least certain policies right. clearly if ever in a position of poer they would fall apart.

Giraffoto

As I said in another thread . . .

I wrote:

Mid-term council elections are a chance to say to the government that we don't have to vote for them, and to point out to the opposition that we don't think that they're any better. UKIP will do better than they deserve to (since they have almost no policies other than statements of what they're not) and will regrettably unseat a few local councillors who really knew what they were doing. In the last recession the BNP got a bit of undeserved attention, this time it's their turn - shame, but that's how things seem to happen

As for policies, it's a mixture of the single policy of the old Referendum party - and the good ol' Cons have already said there will be a referendum on the EU if they get voted back in - and a load of vague populist tripe with strong overtones of anti-environmentalism ("Stop wind turbines blighting our green and pleasant land") and wilful ignorance ("I don't see why quitting the EU should be complicated"). Both are reasons to worry: the religious right in the US have the same anti-environmental stance, and professing total ignorance of how government works shouldn't be a qualification for power. It's up to people - all people - to pay a bit more attention to who they vote for and what it means for them.

Now, since this is a political discussion, here's a soundbite:

A party that dresses up ignorance as policy will naturally find followers in people who have called it their opinion.

AchillesLeftKnee

Giraffoto wrote:

It's up to people - all people - to pay a bit more attention to who they vote for and what it means for them.

Which begs the question, if there's nothing on offer from the main three, what exactly is one supposed to do?

Alain Quay

Looking at UKIP, its policies the number of votes they got, what it shows is that in 2013, the elderly are numerically larger and much better at playing politics than young people - i.e. understanding it, getting organised and voting. The elderly UKIP voters want the pension and they want to save all their inherited wealth, pay low taxes, have a comprehensive NHS for free, stop foreigners entering the UK, etc. They think climate change is bs and they want to bring back smoking in pubs, hunting, etc. Comedy gold, but people voted for it.

Meanwhile, young people have tuition fees and loan debt, no traineeships or other government help, few jobs, short-term job contracts, poor pension arrangements, etc. But you would barely know. They should be bashing down the door of No. 10 Downing Street.

AchillesLeftKnee

Alain Quay wrote:

Meanwhile, young people have tuition fees and loan debt, no traineeships or other government help, few jobs, short-term job contracts, poor pension arrangements, etc. But you would barely know. They should be bashing down the door of No. 10 Downing Street.

Why should they bother? None of the three main parties give a flying crap about 'em, so there's absolutely nothing to rally to.

Alain Quay

Sure, but apathy guarantees failure. UKIP cut across the traditional party set-up, and there's a lesson there. In the 60s early 70s, young people in the USA, Australia etc became politically active because of the war draft and they just kept going and got what they wanted - free university education, scholarships, etc. But they were the baby boomers and there were lots of them.

verylonglegs

The disaffected youth of today rioted for new trainers and ipods, must have given the clearest message possible to the politicians that they weren't a threat politically.

the playing mantis

Alain Quay wrote:

The elderly UKIP voters want the pension and they want to save all their inherited wealth, pay low taxes, have a comprehensive NHS for free, stop foreigners entering the UK, etc. They think climate change is bs and they want to bring back smoking in pubs, hunting, etc. Comedy gold, but people voted for it.

and what is wrong with most of that, apart from your smoking made up comment and the extreme climate change comment.

whats wrong with looking after your own, or if your family has worked hard, keeping that money in the family rather than letting those who havnet get it???

talk to the man/woman in the street, the workplace, the pub. UKIP most backs the views most people beleive in and talk about. pretending that they dont is just silly. i mix in a number of different circles (not necessarily by choice), workwise and socially, and in one way or another these views are widely held be it with the salt of the earth 'tradional' working class types, the wealthy, and the supposed middle class and with the common everyday average person, be they traditionally labour or tory.

rick_chasey

I'm not concerned about UKIP.

They're still not credible on any issue beyond the EU, and even their position on that is that of a child.

Their manifesto reads like something written after a few pints at the pub. The figures don't add up, the policies are not thought through to their logical end. Generally they're not a smart bunch.

They'll soon lose their protest vote profile. It can only last so long when you have people in power. I'm confident their lack of governance ability compared to the other parties will come to the fore soon enough.

MaxwellBygraves

Rick Chasey wrote:

their lack of governance ability compared to the other parties

Yeah, cos Dave, Nick and Ed have that in spades...

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'm not concerned about UKIP.

They're still not credible on any issue beyond the EU, and even their position on that is that of a child.

Their manifesto reads like something written after a few pints at the pub. The figures don't add up, the policies are not thought through to their logical end. Generally they're not a smart bunch.

They'll soon lose their protest vote profile. It can only last so long when you have people in power. I'm confident their lack of governance ability compared to the other parties will come to the fore soon enough.

Some people would say the same thing about the Lib Dems, only they have a few years start on UKIP (Well, apart from the EU point...)

MaxwellBygraves

Also love that they describe themselves as a 'libertarian, non-racist party'.

Alarm bells should surely ring when the first thing you have to introduce yourself as is 'non-racist'.