Getting up hills

cyclingprop

itboffin wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Is anyone else less worried about the hills and more about the huge hole being dug?

Just asking....

What about this 30/34 gear combo you've been hiding eh!?

Leave you're cape at the door please :twisted:

Next to where you left the grammar book?

Kieran_Burns

itboffin wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Is anyone else less worried about the hills and more about the huge hole being dug?

Just asking....

What about this 30/34 gear combo you've been hiding eh!?

Leave you're cape at the door please :twisted:

Bugger off. My CX can climb with the best of the muddy ones thanks to the 11-32 cassette combined with the 50/39/30 chainwheel.

It's the MADONE triple you need to get upset about.... 8) I've been thinking of changing the 12-25 for an 11-28...

itboffin

rolf_f

Bustacapp wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

but I do know that the area is known as the West Lancashire plain - plain being a geographical term for somewhere fairly flat! Maybe it isn't as bad as the fens but hilly it isn't.

This post shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

I think you'll find that a plain is definitely a geographical term for somewhere fairly flat - though if there are any geographers around here to say otherwise I bow to their superior knowledge!

And I have travelled around the area a bit. It didn't seem particularly hilly.

I tell you what though - I'll just check 100 Greatest Cycling Climbs and Another 100 Greatest Cycling Climbs and get back to you with the ones in the book on the Lancashire Plain - how's that then?!

Edit - Oh drat! There aren't any. You should write to the author and tell him he is missing out on some biggies!

Initialised

Today I found the best incentive to get up the hill was the guy in front of me with a lower FCN.

This is the hill: http://veloviewer.com/segment/2479469/

I think it has hardest mile of climbing up that hill other than the staircase (flood damaged cycle path). I hadn't tried it until this thread inspired me and getting down (after a different, longer climb) with enough time to give it a crack. Glad I did so thanks to this thread my legs are a bit annoyed with me. If I just did this climb I might be able to get three circuits in and since it's more sheltered than the other routes it's one for the windier days.

Oh and I didn't have to resort to 34/30 too often.

tgotb

Bustacapp wrote:

Sorry but none of that explains how my Dad (who is over 70) is somehow capable of riding over Hardknott Pass just because he can make it up the stairs.

Hope you don't mind me coming back to this... I'm slightly unclear from the above, whether your father can make it over Hardknott Pass; a surprising number of septuagenarians seem to be capable of this sort of feat these days...

If he can, good on him!

If he can't (and there's nothing wrong with that) why not? Would he simply be unable to turn the pedals, or would he set off but grind to a halt somewhere on Wrynose?

If the latter, maybe he could try doing squats...

EKE_38BPM

Bustacapp wrote:

Here's something for you to think about. If you were to add say 30kg of lead into a rucksack and then try to ride up a steep hill, does leg strength still not have any play in it whatsoever? Oh I forgot. It's all technique and cardio fitness right?

With the increased load, you'd need lower gearing and good CV fitness to keep turning the gear over. Having massively strong legs won't help on a long, steep hill but will on a short steep hill. As has been said, Chris Hoy can use his strength to climb a hill but Bradley Wiggins will use his CV fitness to climb a mountain.

A touring cyclist will use low gearing to carry the big load of tents, food, clothing etc. Just mashing a big gear won't cut it.

Bustacapp

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Bustacapp wrote:

Here's something for you to think about. If you were to add say 30kg of lead into a rucksack and then try to ride up a steep hill, does leg strength still not have any play in it whatsoever? Oh I forgot. It's all technique and cardio fitness right?

With the increased load, you'd need lower gearing and good CV fitness to keep turning the gear over. Having massively strong legs won't help on a long, steep hill but will on a short steep hill. As has been said, Chris Hoy can use his strength to climb a hill but Bradley Wiggins will use his CV fitness to climb a mountain.

A touring cyclist will use low gearing to carry the big load of tents, food, clothing etc. Just mashing a big gear won't cut it.

But what if there are no more gears to move down?

rick_chasey

Alright guys. Just had to delete two posts. I get one more legitimate report and I'll lock the thread.

I'll deal with particular offenders privately.

It's a thread originally about going up hills a little faster guys. C'mon.

EKE_38BPM

Bustacapp wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Bustacapp wrote:

Here's something for you to think about. If you were to add say 30kg of lead into a rucksack and then try to ride up a steep hill, does leg strength still not have any play in it whatsoever? Oh I forgot. It's all technique and cardio fitness right?

With the increased load, you'd need lower gearing and good CV fitness to keep turning the gear over. Having massively strong legs won't help on a long, steep hill but will on a short steep hill. As has been said, Chris Hoy can use his strength to climb a hill but Bradley Wiggins will use his CV fitness to climb a mountain.

A touring cyclist will use low gearing to carry the big load of tents, food, clothing etc. Just mashing a big gear won't cut it.

But what if there are no more gears to move down?

No one is saying that strength is irrelevant, of course strength plays a factor, but appropriate gearing, good CV fitness and good technique will get a cyclist up more slopes/hills/mountains than just massive leg strength.
There is a reason that climbers have the physique that they do and sprinters have the physique that they do.

Can you imagine how badly Chris Hoy would blow up on a TdF mountain stage? It would be like asking Usain Bolt to run a marathon. Horses for courses. I doubt many long distance runners do weight training (for strength), but I know that sprinters do.

You are going down a blind alley with your conviction that strength is all when it comes to climbing. I say again, strength is a factor, but it isn't the most important factor (gearing, CV fitness and technique rate higher).

Chill out, cheer up and open your mind.

EKE_38BPM

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright guys. Just had to delete two posts. I get one more legitimate report and I'll lock the thread.

I'll deal with particular offenders privately.

It's a thread originally about going up hills a little faster guys. C'mon.

Is Kieran getting defensive about his triples again?

Right people, STOP BULLYING KIERAN!

tgotb

Kieran_Burns wrote:

.....CX.....
.....11-32.....
.....50/39/30.....

30/32?!?


May be taking the stairs analogy a bit literally here, but wouldn't it be quicker to jump off and run?

rolf_f

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright guys. Just had to delete two posts. I get one more legitimate report and I'll lock the thread.

I'll deal with particular offenders privately.

It's a thread originally about going up hills a little faster guys. C'mon.

Is Kieran getting defensive about his triples again?

Right people, STOP BULLYING KIERAN!

Too late. I think Ricks banned Kieran for running triples. Harsh but fair.

EKE_38BPM

TGOTB wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

.....CX.....
.....11-32.....
.....50/39/30.....

30/32?!?


May be taking the stairs analogy a bit literally here, but wouldn't it be quicker to jump off and run?

I think it would probably be quicker to get off, shoulder your bike CX stylee, turn around and hop backwards up the hill. To keep Bustacapp happy, this would be a bit like doing squats.

veronese68

Blimey, I hadn't realised hills were so controversial. A few things come to mind:
KB I used to have a triple on the Kona CX, now a compact on the green thing.
Menthel try riding up Ridgeway Place a few times.
I can't remember the others it was a few pages ago.

Bustacapp

EKE_38BPM wrote:

You are going down a blind alley with your conviction that strength is all when it comes to climbing. I say again, strength is a factor, but it isn't the most important factor (gearing, CV fitness and technique rate higher).

Chill out, cheer up and open your mind.

Lol OMG not ONCE did I allude to strength being 'all' when it comes to climbing. I merely stated that it helps, which you actually agree with! If you read my posts you would see this. Never mind about me opening my mind how about you open your eyes! Yet again the lemmings come swarming in though, making assumptions. Just a bunch of repeaters!

Bustacapp

Rolf F wrote:

I think you'll find that a plain is definitely a geographical term for somewhere fairly flat - though if there are any geographers around here to say otherwise I bow to their superior knowledge!

And I have travelled around the area a bit. It didn't seem particularly hilly.

I tell you what though - I'll just check 100 Greatest Cycling Climbs and Another 100 Greatest Cycling Climbs and get back to you with the ones in the book on the Lancashire Plain - how's that then?!

Edit - Oh drat! There aren't any. You should write to the author and tell him he is missing out on some biggies!

Pretty sure Parbold was lumpy last time I checked.

Anyway OP. Try squats!!

EKE_38BPM

Bustacapp wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

You are going down a blind alley with your conviction that strength is all when it comes to climbing. I say again, strength is a factor, but it isn't the most important factor (gearing, CV fitness and technique rate higher).

Chill out, cheer up and open your mind.

Lol OMG not ONCE did I allude to strength being 'all' when it comes to climbing. I merely stated that it helps, which you actually agree with! If you read my posts you would see this. Never mind about me opening my mind how about you open your eyes! Yet again the lemmings come swarming in though, making assumptions. Just a bunch of repeaters!

OK, I'll give you that. You didn't say that strength is all, but I (along with just about everyone else) think that you are placing too much importance on strength, when improving CV fitness, choosing appropriate gearing and improving technique (and maybe losing some weight) should all come before doing squats and hitting the gym to increase strength.

Maybe us "repeaters" are repeating ourselves because you won't listen to sense?

And with that, I'm out.

kelsen

Wow! I ignore this thread for a few days and it all kicks off!

My two pennies worth. I would say I have above average leg strength from many years of doing squats and leg presses since my teenage years. At my strongest I was squatting at just under twice my body weight. When I first started cycling regularly in my 20s, I was pretty crap at climbing. In fact I was pretty crap at anything involving a sustained effort on the pedals. This was despite having a pretty good cardio base from running, football and cross-training. Over 10 cycling years later, my climbing has improved massively. I was 169/3980 in the 2012 Etape Caledonia KOM up Schiehallion (ok, it's not a particularly famous climb but I'm proud of it). I don't think my pure leg strength has changed much, if anything its probably less as I haven't been doing weights regularly. The biggest difference has been the periods when I have been targeting hills as part of training, and losing just under a stone in weight. Having said that, I'll never be a racing snake and those types will simply fly past me on the longer climbs.

meanredspider

I think I'm probably an example of strong legs not being particularly effective for climbing hills. The KoM's I have on Strava are either short/sharp climbs or long flat (or gently sloping) segments. I'm a relatively big guy at 93kg and 6' and I have some good-sized (lean) thighs. I think I've historically used strength in my cycling far too much and relied on it more than aerobic fitness and I'm actually trying to change. The point about the Strava segments is that I can either muscle my way up a short climb or power my way along the level where my weight is no penalty.

The Schiehallion climb is funny. Last year's Etape Caledonia was my first and the first time I'd done over 50 miles. I had no idea what to expect and the weather was pretty horrible (white water on the loch). I therefore took it reasonably carefully. When I reached the Schiehallion climb, I set off up it and felt a bit strange as I was passing people left and right. I figured I must have underestimated the climb so I slowed down. The top arrived much quicker than I'd expected. In the last 15 miles I lost count of the number of people I passed (well over 100) and not a soul passed me. I'd basically totally underestimated my fitness as I got to the end with more in the tank. Good experience though.

Bustacapp

EKE_38BPM wrote:

OK, I'll give you that. You didn't say that strength is all, but I (along with just about everyone else) think that you are placing too much importance on strength, when improving CV fitness, choosing appropriate gearing and improving technique (and maybe losing some weight) should all come before doing squats and hitting the gym to increase strength.

Maybe us "repeaters" are repeating ourselves because you won't listen to sense?

And with that, I'm out.

In the original post, the OP asked how to increase strength in his legs as part of the larger question of how to improve climbing. I answered. And then the hysteria started. Still, it provided me with something to do since Eurosport cut the Tour of Turkey short with 4k to go.

itboffin

Rolf F wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright guys. Just had to delete two posts. I get one more legitimate report and I'll lock the thread.

I'll deal with particular offenders privately.

It's a thread originally about going up hills a little faster guys. C'mon.

Is Kieran getting defensive about his triples again?

Right people, STOP BULLYING KIERAN!

Too late. I think Ricks banned Kieran for running triples. Harsh but fair.

rolf_f

Bustacapp wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

OK, I'll give you that. You didn't say that strength is all, but I (along with just about everyone else) think that you are placing too much importance on strength, when improving CV fitness, choosing appropriate gearing and improving technique (and maybe losing some weight) should all come before doing squats and hitting the gym to increase strength.

Maybe us "repeaters" are repeating ourselves because you won't listen to sense?

And with that, I'm out.

In the original post, the OP asked how to increase strength in his legs as part of the larger question of how to improve climbing. I answered. And then the hysteria started. Still, it provided me with something to do since Eurosport cut the Tour of Turkey short with 4k to go.

To be fair, you said "squats - end thread". I'm not about to suggest that they don't have a role to play; I suspect I might benefit a little from that approach. However, as a means to improve climbing they are far down the list of priorities (which is certainly topped by "climb more hills") and certainly not the point to end the thread with. Good try though!

Kieran_Burns

TGOTB wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

.....CX.....
.....11-32.....
.....50/39/30.....

30/32?!?


May be taking the stairs analogy a bit literally here, but wouldn't it be quicker to jump off and run?

I've never actually managed to find ANYTHING that needs that gear, but if I fitted some 35c nobblies to the Tricross and went seriously off-road I might. Actually I'd just topple over but at least it would be low speed

rick_chasey

Rolf F wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright guys. Just had to delete two posts. I get one more legitimate report and I'll lock the thread.

I'll deal with particular offenders privately.

It's a thread originally about going up hills a little faster guys. C'mon.

Is Kieran getting defensive about his triples again?

Right people, STOP BULLYING KIERAN!

Too late. I think Ricks banned Kieran for running triples. Harsh but fair.

It was the only decent thing to do.

Kieran_Burns

Veronese68 wrote:

Blimey, I hadn't realised hills were so controversial. A few things come to mind:
KB I used to have a triple on the Kona CX, now a compact on the green thing.
Menthel try riding up Ridgeway Place a few times.
I can't remember the others it was a few pages ago.

My Felt F65X is a compact. I changed the 46/36 CX chainset to a 50/34 compact. Oddly I use the 34 ring more often than I ever did the 39 on the Tricross...

Oh, going back to the OP: I find just dropping into a slightly spinny gear at the bottom of any hill and sitting with my hands on the flats and just working my way up gets me to the top eventually. I've tried the leg strength thing but I prefer to look after my knees and I prefer the CV fitness to outright power.

Hang on... did I just make a serious post on this thread?

pangolin

Bustacapp wrote:

Lol OMG not ONCE did I allude to strength being 'all' when it comes to climbing.

Bustacapp wrote:

Squats.

/thread.

OMG!

Kieran_Burns

Rick Chasey wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright guys. Just had to delete two posts. I get one more legitimate report and I'll lock the thread.

I'll deal with particular offenders privately.

It's a thread originally about going up hills a little faster guys. C'mon.

Is Kieran getting defensive about his triples again?

Right people, STOP BULLYING KIERAN!

Too late. I think Ricks banned Kieran for running triples. Harsh but fair.

It was the only decent thing to do.

( ¦ ) ( / ) ( ¦ ) ( \ ) ( ¦ ) ( / ) ( ¦ ) ( \ ) ( ¦ ) ( / ) ( ¦ ) ( \ ) ( ¦ ) ( / ) ( ¦ ) ( \ ) ( ¦ ) ( / ) ( ¦ ) ( \ )

menthel

So, I asked how to make hills a little less painful on my commute and then it turns into a silly, willy waving bunfight.

Thanks to all of those whom gave useful advice.

veronese68

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Hang on... did I just make a serious post on this thread?

Yes, but I think the OP has run away from the monster he unwittingly created.

ETA Ha ha, whilst I'm writing that he popped back. :oops: