Road Rage Advise required please
Comments
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I'm also glad that you are OK.
What I find incredible though is that you now have to ring a doorbell, a doorbell to a police station! That they don't even answer, because the Police Officers are in the kitchen, well I suppose you do have to keep your energy levels up if you are going to keep answering that door. :roll:, watching from the window while you roll around on the floor with some moron. Sorry but if this wasn't such a serious incident for the OP it would just be laughable!
'Ooh look Sarge, a cyclist is getting attacked outside. Should we go out?'
'Nom nom nom, yeah I suppose we should, maybe one more bite, nom nom nom'0 -
Your probably not going to get payed out what you deserve, but to stand any chance start using words like harassment, alarm and distress (key words the police are measured on in statements.... Sad but true.)
Don't forget that feelings of distress can come after an event, this is the key as mental anguish is hard to disprove... so if you feel yourself unable to take part in your beloved pastime of cycling due to the horrific memories of being assaulted by an extremely aggressive man who made you fear for your safety as he charged towards you, teeth bared and snarling while striking you in unbridled rage.
Ican only immagine that you must have been alarmed by his aggression, distressed by the fact that such an act could take place in a public place.... No less in front of a police station with on duty police officers in the vicinity and harassed to the point you felt it necessary to dismount and defend yourself with your beloved bike which took you months to save up for and which you relied upon for transport and to partake in your hobby.
If this is the case your probably more likely to get a payout.
Oh and if you were outside of a police station don't forget that there is a good chance ths was caught on CCTV, look carefully at all buildings in the vicinity. You would be surprised how many little cameras are dotted about the place, CCTV would go hugely in your favour if everything is as simple as you say. But don't forget that lots of CCTV systems only keep the data for a out a week so get to it!
Stick it to the sh1t, sounds like he deserves it.0 -
Guanajuato wrote:I suspect there's a large chunk of the story missing here. Some motorists are complete prats, but that's beyond anything normal. If the police witnessed it, then they'd be jumping at the chance to get a positive conviction as from your description its clearly assault. Unless there's something you're not telling us.
I'm guessing you have never worked in the police, lol at jumping at the chance to get a positive conviction. Do you realise how many crappy little scuffles you come across where neither party has any intention of involvement of criminal action a day later than the even, weigh that up against the sheer amount of paperwork to properly process such an incident and a custody sergeant who won't thank you for filling his cells with utter crap when there a often more serious criminals queuing up. Sad but true that some jaded officers won't give this their time of day.
Expecting an officer to jump at the chance to a positive conviction in a case like this is like expecting a shelf stacker he should jump at the chance to stack un-dented tins.diy wrote:There are 3 parts to this.
1) Criminal prosecution for the offences - here your role is to assist the police to ensure justice is done and he doesn't lamp the next person he comes in to conflict with. This is not where you get compensation. Though you might ask the police about any restorative justice program that they might consider (basically his sentence is to make good the crime).
In real life "make good the crime." Means apologise face to face.0 -
I would say stick to the facts for the criminal case and do a bit of research for the civil claim. Avoid talking something up while the magistrate (criminal case) might buy it, the district judge (civil claim) wont. While they perform similar roles, they are chalk and cheese. Talking up just tends to cast doubt over the factual part. CPS prosecutor will do the talking up to the magistrate - if it goes the distance.
I also think there are more serious considerations than section 4a public order with regard to threats and harassment. I'm assuming some of the flying fists landed, so we are beyond the level of threats of violence.
Depending on his statement to plod for the driving and other evidence, there may be a driving prosecution too.
Gut feel says they will give him a caution if he is unknown to them and then you get on with your civil claim. If it looks like its going to magistrates then you need to start researching him to determine if he'd pay if ordered to by a civil court.0 -
Sounds like you easily overpowered him. Perhaps you should have just chinned the cunt when you was holding him down?0
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Bustacapp wrote:Sounds like you easily overpowered him. Perhaps you should have just chinned the **** when you was holding him down?
Because in doing so in the car park of a police station would have ended up with them both being arrested and either both being charged, cautioned or mutually agree to drop their respective complaints.
Think the OP did the right thing & if he wants to take it further has much stronger grounds.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
I'd rather have the satisfaction of battering him and just pay for the bike myself. He sounds like a right tosser.0
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Find out where he lives, cycle round about 2am with baseball bat and put his windscreen through
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Yeah agree - reasonable (and ideally minimal) force to defend yourself keeps you squeaky clean and off plod's nasty DNA database for the rest of your life.
Those who've been arrested enjoy a different level of service from plod thereafter.0 -
Dont request criminal compensation you will never get anything that way, speak to a solicitor you want to claim Trespass to the person and Trespass to property. Beleive it not you can sue someone for intentional damage to yourself and damage to your goods.
How do I know this I am currently studying Law of Tort.0 -
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He was arrested so that's a start. Now you need to find out whether he was charged and bailed to court, NFA'd (kicked out without charge and no further action taken), or bailed to return to the police station while further enquiries are done.
If he is eligible for a caution, and I were the Officer in the case, I'd be recommending a CONDITIONAL CAUTION as the best disposal. That's where you state what recompense would make you happy (financial or otherwise) and he has to agree to fulfil that by an agreed date. If he does, he gets a caution. If not he gets charged. If the officer witnessed the assault and criminal damage it should be fairly straightforward to convict him at court. This way he pays to get your bike fixed without you having to drag him through the small claims process.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/othe ... ing04.html0 -
Cornerblock wrote:I'm also glad that you are OK.
What I find incredible though is that you now have to ring a doorbell, a doorbell to a police station! That they don't even answer, because the Police Officers are in the kitchen, well I suppose you do have to keep your energy levels up if you are going to keep answering that door. :roll:, watching from the window while you roll around on the floor with some moron. Sorry but if this wasn't such a serious incident for the OP it would just be laughable!
'Ooh look Sarge, a cyclist is getting attacked outside. Should we go out?'
'Nom nom nom, yeah I suppose we should, maybe one more bite, nom nom nom'
Not all police stations have a public "front counter". A lot are simply a building from which officers start their shift. Their lockers and kit are in there, as are the computers and paperwork they need to submit files. Such as the files needed by CPS when people, for example, get knocked off their bikes and assaulted. They usually have a small kitchen which nowadays consists of a microwave and a fridge. This is used to heat their food and is a convenient place to eat it too. There are also toilets in there because, surprise surprise, officers need the loo sometimes too.
It seems to me that the officers got to the front door pretty quickly. Do you seriously think they sit in the nick all day, wearing their hats, one hand on the door handle, waiting for someone to knock ?
Nowadays, the OP was actually lucky there was anyone in the nick at all. The civilians who staff the public front counter in our force area wouldn't have been able to help him. They'd have just rang the police...0 -
steve6690 wrote:If he is eligible for a caution, and I were the Officer in the case, I'd be recommending a CONDITIONAL CAUTION as the best disposal. That's where you state what recompense would make you happy (financial or otherwise) and he has to agree to fulfil that by an agreed date. If he does, he gets a caution. If not he gets charged
Could do with a few more like that - far too many offer caution, when there is insufficient evidence to convict and no confession to the crime or duty solicitor present. People do have to be very, very careful when accepting a Caution.0 -
Update
The police called me yesterday to advise the driver has been given a caution. Not sure how I feel about this but I guess there is nothing I can do about it anyway.
So now I need to work out what going to be best civil court or small claims court. To be honest I don’t have faith in this process anymore and think I might just be wasting my time.0 -
Cloudy_Wheat wrote:Update
The police called me yesterday to advise the driver has been given a caution. Not sure how I feel about this but I guess there is nothing I can do about it anyway.
So now I need to work out what going to be best civil court or small claims court. To be honest I don’t have faith in this process anymore and think I might just be wasting my time.
Tough one for you but you could always book an appointment to the citizens advice centre to get some free independent advice on the best course of action. That way you wouldn't be wasting your time just clarifying what your options are before you commit any more effort into it.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Cloudy_Wheat wrote:Update
The police called me yesterday to advise the driver has been given a caution. Not sure how I feel about this but I guess there is nothing I can do about it anyway.
So now I need to work out what going to be best civil court or small claims court. To be honest I don’t have faith in this process anymore and think I might just be wasting my time.
Just use the "no win no fee" lawyers. if you or your property were injured/damaged they can pursue his insurance company (if he was insured) or him directly. When I was injured after some idiot driver pulled in front of me, I just called Russell Jones & Walker and they took care of everything - approached the police, got details needed, contacted the driver's insurance company, negotiated damages etc etc. All I had to do was sign some documents.... Make sure you get photos of your physical injuries before they heal and don't fix your bike, or at least get a written assessment for damages at a bike repair place before you fix it... Hand all that over to the lawyers and let them take over. You don't pay a penny.Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Cloudy_Wheat wrote:So now I need to work out what going to be best civil court or small claims court. To be honest I don’t have faith in this process anymore and think I might just be wasting my time.
Firstly a Caution is effectively a prosecution without punishment. it is still in many respects a conviction for the offence and in order to qualify he must admit the offence. It will show up in all sorts of checks and will be a pain in the a for him for a very long time. Did plod say what he had been cautioned for?
1. Do a bit of research on him if you can. Name address, car google will help you, to understand if he has the means to pay.
2. Send him a letter before action detailing the claim you will make (outline the costs you have incurred, the damages you will seek) and the additional charges he will have to pay (listing fees etc). Allow him sometime to consider, make it clear that court is the next option, but also that this is his chance to end the matter. Typically here I will outline all the possible aspects I will seek to recover and then give him a without prejudice offer of a lower amount to settle and a date he must do this by.
3. If you think he cares about a CCJ then file it with the county court via the money claim on line link I provided earlier.
"Small claim" is the county court, it is just a specific type of track within the county court.0 -
diy wrote:Cloudy_Wheat wrote:So now I need to work out what going to be best civil court or small claims court. To be honest I don’t have faith in this process anymore and think I might just be wasting my time.
Firstly a Caution is effectively a prosecution without punishment. it is still in many respects a conviction for the offence and in order to qualify he must admit the offence. It will show up in all sorts of checks and will be a pain in the a for him for a very long time. Did plod say what he had been cautioned for?
1. Do a bit of research on him if you can. Name address, car google will help you, to understand if he has the means to pay.
2. Send him a letter before action detailing the claim you will make (outline the costs you have incurred, the damages you will seek) and the additional charges he will have to pay (listing fees etc). Allow him sometime to consider, make it clear that court is the next option, but also that this is his chance to end the matter. Typically here I will outline all the possible aspects I will seek to recover and then give him a without prejudice offer of a lower amount to settle and a date he must do this by.
3. If you think he cares about a CCJ then file it with the county court via the money claim on line link I provided earlier.
"Small claim" is the county court, it is just a specific type of track within the county court.
I really recommend you take the above advice. It's not that much hassle or expense to take the case to small claims court, if it even gets that far. He will find it hard to defend your claim having admitted the criminal offence and received a caution.0 -
diy wrote:steve6690 wrote:If he is eligible for a caution, and I were the Officer in the case, I'd be recommending a CONDITIONAL CAUTION as the best disposal. That's where you state what recompense would make you happy (financial or otherwise) and he has to agree to fulfil that by an agreed date. If he does, he gets a caution. If not he gets charged
Could do with a few more like that - far too many offer caution, when there is insufficient evidence to convict and no confession to the crime or duty solicitor present. People do have to be very, very careful when accepting a Caution.
Indeed they do. If I could offer one piece of advice to a person under arrest it would be to say nothing until you've spoken to a solicitor - which you should always do.0 -
Many innocent people accept cautions without realising the consequences, having waived their right to a free duty solicitor because they "had done nothing wrong". After being locked up for a few hours in a cell and being asked to sign "this simple piece of paper which will end the matter", seems like a very straight forward thing to do.
Its only after that they realise that there was a valid defence to the crime or that a caution is more than a "warning" - at which point it extremely difficult/near impossible to rectify.
@OP - if you are worried about doing the claim yourself - you can get it done for a fixed(ish) fee of about £50-75 via a solicitor. They may charge a bit on top if they need to get the statement from the police.0
