26, 650b or 29er in the long run?
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If you are buying a bike you cant afford dont buy it - why live your life in debt when you already have a functioning bike? Save for three years and buy the bike appropriate then?Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0
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paul.skibum wrote:If you are buying a bike you cant afford dont buy it - why live your life in debt when you already have a functioning bike? Save for three years and buy the bike appropriate then?
Who said I can't afford it? I said I haven't got the cash in 1 lump. Who has got £2500 spare sitting around really?
Plus, the bike I ride now is a hardtail. I've had a bad back since a rugby injury years ago and the harshness of the hardtail seems to be making it worse lately. So a full suss upgrade it is.0 -
adamfo wrote:cooldad wrote:Why would the contact patch be thinner if the tyres are the same width?
Because the total area is the same but the 29er has greater circumference.
But surely a 2.3 tyre is 2.3" wide regardless of whether its 26, 650b or 29? The contact patch will be longer, ad the width is the same, given the same tyre size, say a 2.25 Nobby Nic or similar in all the wheel sizes, the width is the same so the contact patch is of equal width but with a greater length, so is therefore greater?
On top of this, there are all kinds of other variables to take into account, internal rim width, pressures, discrepancies in tyre size, but surely as I said above, the same size tyre of the same tread pattern with equal pressure mounted a rim with identical width will leave the 29er wheel with a greater contact patch than 26"0 -
There are other variables to take into account, true, but:the width is the same so the contact patch is of equal width but with a greater length, so is therefore greater?
is fundamentally wrong. The patch gets longer and thinner to preserve the law of physics. So this is also wrong:29er wheel with a greater contact patch than 26"0 -
lawman wrote:adamfo wrote:cooldad wrote:Why would the contact patch be thinner if the tyres are the same width?
Because the total area is the same but the 29er has greater circumference.
But surely a 2.3 tyre is 2.3" wide regardless of whether its 26, 650b or 29? The contact patch will be longer, ad the width is the same, given the same tyre size, say a 2.25 Nobby Nic or similar in all the wheel sizes, the width is the same so the contact patch is of equal width but with a greater length, so is therefore greater?
On top of this, there are all kinds of other variables to take into account, internal rim width, pressures, discrepancies in tyre size, but surely as I said above, the same size tyre of the same tread pattern with equal pressure mounted a rim with identical width will leave the 29er wheel with a greater contact patch than 26"
It's basic physics regarding gravity. If weight and air pressure remain fixed the total contact patch area remains the same regardless of wheel or tyre size. What changes is the contact patch shape.
In practice other differences are probably more important. The 29er having greater roll over and gyroscopic stability for instance.
There was a test in one of the mags last year. Two Felt hard tails with 26 and 29 wheels and a 650b bike.
The rider paced himself with a heart monitor over a closed course on mixed terrain. The 29er set the fastest time showing that for the same power input it was the most efficient. However, the 650b time was so close as to be practically insignificant. The gap between the 26 and 650b suggests the 650b really does have advantages and may in time replace the 26 if more manufacturers get on board.0 -
My training and experience as a senior mechanical engineer tells me that the contact patch AREA will be constant regardless of wheel diameter. The contact patch area can only be varied by changing the pressure. Just think about what pressure is and what psi stands for.
I have ridden a Identiti AKA with 26" & 650B tyres back to back and couldn't tell the difference.
29" makes sense, 650B is just a gimmick to sell more bikes. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy one but it will be if the bike I want comes with 650B wheels and not 26".Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
welshkev wrote:paul.skibum wrote:If you are buying a bike you cant afford dont buy it - why live your life in debt when you already have a functioning bike? Save for three years and buy the bike appropriate then?
Who said I can't afford it? I said I haven't got the cash in 1 lump. Who has got £2500 spare sitting around really?
Plus, the bike I ride now is a hardtail. I've had a bad back since a rugby injury years ago and the harshness of the hardtail seems to be making it worse lately. So a full suss upgrade it is.
If you dont have the money now you are running the risk you wont be able to afford it in the future - loans for lifestyle stuff I dont get - it makes no sense to get in hock and have a burden on you I feel it removes the enjoyment of your new toy if you know that everytime you ride it you are depreciating something you havent even finished paying for yet.
Just my opinion though. Go for your life - personally I'd go for a 26er but that's just because I dont like change!Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0 -
welshkev.
I think your best trying a few of these different size bikes out first, if you can. Now that there's a 650b to add to the selection, i can't see any of these sizes going anywhere. There are still pro's out there who are getting rid of there 29'ers or full sussers to use 26" hardtails for there main racing bikes.
I feel confident enough to say that all will be around in 10 years time, so all you have to consider is wich feels best for you. If any of these sizes are to disappear though, i would say it's the 650b. I would personaly go with with a 29'er or 26" and in that order. More availability for these sizes wich makes parts, upgrades and repairs a bit less of a headache.
Before you jump straight to a full susser though, check this bike out first. No link sorry so you'll have to google it. It's the Pinarello Dogma XC 29'er hardtail. I was set on a full susser too for my next bike, but this has thrown a spanner in the works. They appear to have done clever things with the frame to add comfort and reduce the effects of bumps and vibrations. Check it out and then see if you can find reviews or get peoples feedback on here. It could be well worth considering if it works half as well as they say. You'll have enough extra comfort without the extra weight or maintenance of a full susser.0 -
welshkev wrote:paul.skibum wrote:If you are buying a bike you cant afford dont buy it - why live your life in debt when you already have a functioning bike? Save for three years and buy the bike appropriate then?
Who said I can't afford it? I said I haven't got the cash in 1 lump. Who has got £2500 spare sitting around really?
Plus, the bike I ride now is a hardtail. I've had a bad back since a rugby injury years ago and the harshness of the hardtail seems to be making it worse lately. So a full suss upgrade it is.
Well, if you haven't got the cash to hand then you can't afford it. You may be able to 'afford' credit, but did your parents not explain to you about the concept of saving, or are you so desperate to join the hoi polloi and live a lifestyle of a keeping up with the jones' just for a bit self gratitude?
Plenty of people have £2.5k sitting around spare. If you don't think they do, it highlights your lack of perception of wealth, and further demonstrates you can't afford it.Plymouthsteve for councillor!!0 -
If he can afford it, let him buy it, after all we need people to spend money to get the economy moving, although buying an Orange with Hope everything may help more than 2/3's the value going to Taiwan!Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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Slack wrote:welshkev wrote:paul.skibum wrote:If you are buying a bike you cant afford dont buy it - why live your life in debt when you already have a functioning bike? Save for three years and buy the bike appropriate then?
Who said I can't afford it? I said I haven't got the cash in 1 lump. Who has got £2500 spare sitting around really?
Plus, the bike I ride now is a hardtail. I've had a bad back since a rugby injury years ago and the harshness of the hardtail seems to be making it worse lately. So a full suss upgrade it is.
Well, if you haven't got the cash to hand then you can't afford it. You may be able to 'afford' credit, but did your parents not explain to you about the concept of saving, or are you so desperate to join the hoi polloi and live a lifestyle of a keeping up with the jones' just for a bit self gratitude?
Plenty of people have £2.5k sitting around spare. If you don't think they do, it highlights your lack of perception of wealth, and further demonstrates you can't afford it.
Did you pay for your house in cold hard cash? There is nothing wrong with credit and long as you use it wisely.0 -
Slack wrote:welshkev wrote:paul.skibum wrote:If you are buying a bike you cant afford dont buy it - why live your life in debt when you already have a functioning bike? Save for three years and buy the bike appropriate then?
Who said I can't afford it? I said I haven't got the cash in 1 lump. Who has got £2500 spare sitting around really?
Plus, the bike I ride now is a hardtail. I've had a bad back since a rugby injury years ago and the harshness of the hardtail seems to be making it worse lately. So a full suss upgrade it is.
Well, if you haven't got the cash to hand then you can't afford it. You may be able to 'afford' credit, but did your parents not explain to you about the concept of saving, or are you so desperate to join the hoi polloi and live a lifestyle of a keeping up with the jones' just for a bit self gratitude?
Plenty of people have £2.5k sitting around spare. If you don't think they do, it highlights your lack of perception of wealth, and further demonstrates you can't afford it.
You patronising tw@t. I own my own business and employ 14 people and you try and lecture me on economics. Idiot. Yes I could save up the cash and yes my mum is exactly the type of person who doesn't buy anything unless she has the cash in her hand. I want a new bike, I can afford the repayments, so I'm getting a new bike.
Now scuttle back off please as your input bears no relation to the original question.
Edit: and did you not read the bit about aggravating my back injury, not a case of keeping up with the jonses! You have no idea what bikes I ride now0 -
And while I'm at it, I've just invested a hell of a lot more than £2500 in the business that's maybe why I don't have cash floating around. I've also just bought another house and am waiting for my other one to have the tennants move in so I'm currently paying 2 mortgages.
But you're right I have no idea about wealth or the perception of money :roll:
Not that you need to know any of this, you just pissed me off0 -
Slack, are you a janner?0
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I'm looking at a Intense Tracer 2, it can be converted to 650b, so can there carbine. but i'm trying one first. theres a demo day at Cannock Chase in a couple of weeks that have both there.
http://www.planetreg.com/E3410463618385what are brakes for again0 -
kangaroo wrote:I'm looking at a Intense Tracer 2, it can be converted to 650b, so can there carbine. but i'm trying one first. theres a demo day at Cannock Chase in a couple of weeks that have both there.
http://www.planetreg.com/E3410463618385
Cheers buddy, I'll take a look at that
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More uncertainty/signs of change depending on your opinionAnd to those wheels…
So as it ended up 5 of the top 7 elites were running bigger wheels, seemingly a good move for this race then although these guys are fast on any bike so I wouldn’t read too much into it. But does this mean each race will see a variety of bikes on the start line?
Personally I see 650b being the ‘norm’ for trail bikes and its racing, DH will continue to run ‘traditional’ 26” (for now at least) and XC racing has to be 29” now to compete, I just look forward to the whole thing settling down in the coming years so the debate will settle with it.
Kangaroo has hit it though...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
From here - http://bikemagic.com/news/uk-gravity-en ... eport.html - sorryWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Worst time ever to buy a new bike, especially for people who don't really know anything about mountain biking. Too many options and too many standards.0
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ddraver wrote:More uncertainty/signs of change depending on your opinionAnd to those wheels…
So as it ended up 5 of the top 7 elites were running bigger wheels, seemingly a good move for this race then although these guys are fast on any bike so I wouldn’t read too much into it. But does this mean each race will see a variety of bikes on the start line?
Personally I see 650b being the ‘norm’ for trail bikes and its racing, DH will continue to run ‘traditional’ 26” (for now at least) and XC racing has to be 29” now to compete, I just look forward to the whole thing settling down in the coming years so the debate will settle with it.
Kangaroo has hit it though...
that's how I viewed it as well. that's why I didn't want to buy a 26er only for it to be fazed out for 650b. but as said, there's so much legacy 26er stuff it shouldn't go that quickly
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Good summary, except some DH teams already seem to be experimenting with 650BCurrently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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The Beginner wrote:Good summary, except some DH teams already seem to be experimenting with 650B
They tested 650B last year but it's looking like most will be sticking with 26". GT's all new prototype DH bike is 26" so they must be planning on sticking with 26" for the next few years and it's well known that they tested 650B.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Gee was definitely using 26" yesterday, so were Rachel Atherton & Mark Beaumont.
Not sure what you mean by DH & Enduro separating? They are already separate sports.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Still looks like another hippy thing to me....
Damn Hippies..0
