Interesting JTL Interview

sadlybiggins

On the Eurosport website today. Doesn't look as if anyone has posted this already but apologies if so. The link's also incredibly long but it's on the ES cycling page if the link doesn't work (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/cycl ... 25z;_ylv=3)

danlikesbikes

Thats a good piece, cheers for posting

LeicesterLad

Cheers for that!

jasonbrim

A good read - it made me think twice about my fantasy cycling team though.

He talked himself up but seems to think team orders will be in play, which is something Team Sky need to do in the classics. It would be nice for him to be able to race now that he has done his domestique duties for a while and recovered from illness. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens!

Richmond Racer

jasonbrim wrote:

A good read - it made me think twice about my fantasy cycling team though.

He talked himself up but seems to think team orders will be in play, which is something Team Sky need to do in the classics. It would be nice for him to be able to race now that he has done his domestique duties for a while and recovered from illness. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens!

Some telling comments about how much of a step up it is to WT, and having struggled to get going. Kind of verifies what we've seen so far. They'd be crazy to have him as leader on Sunday for sure instead of Henao who's hit a real purple patch. I guess only the SKy DSs in his recent and the coaches, and JTL himself, know whether its worth gambling on giving him a free hand in the next week and a half.

jasonbrim

Richmond Racer wrote:

jasonbrim wrote:

A good read - it made me think twice about my fantasy cycling team though.

He talked himself up but seems to think team orders will be in play, which is something Team Sky need to do in the classics. It would be nice for him to be able to race now that he has done his domestique duties for a while and recovered from illness. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens!

Some telling comments about how much of a step up it is to WT, and having struggled to get going. Kind of verifies what we've seen so far. They'd be crazy to have him as leader on Sunday for sure instead of Henao who's hit a real purple patch. I guess only the SKy DSs in his recent and the coaches, and JTL himself, know whether its worth gambling on giving him a free hand in the next week and a half.

Very true. Would be nice to see him ride though. Henao is incredible though, will be great to see how he fares going against il purito in the races next week.

Richmond Racer

jasonbrim wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

jasonbrim wrote:

A good read - it made me think twice about my fantasy cycling team though.

He talked himself up but seems to think team orders will be in play, which is something Team Sky need to do in the classics. It would be nice for him to be able to race now that he has done his domestique duties for a while and recovered from illness. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens!

Some telling comments about how much of a step up it is to WT, and having struggled to get going. Kind of verifies what we've seen so far. They'd be crazy to have him as leader on Sunday for sure instead of Henao who's hit a real purple patch. I guess only the SKy DSs in his recent and the coaches, and JTL himself, know whether its worth gambling on giving him a free hand in the next week and a half.

Very true. Would be nice to see him ride though. Henao is incredible though, will be great to see how he fares going against il purito in the races next week.

Its 14 months old but great article on Henao on the Cycling Inquisition site
http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2012/ ... -both.html

danlikesbikes

jasonbrim wrote:

Very true. Would be nice to see him ride though. Henao is incredible though, will be great to see how he fares going against il purito in the races next week.

But if he is near the front (depending on what part of the support train he is allocated too) at the end he could still easily end up high in the finishing slots. Which if he were in a lower league team he might not be fit enough too due to lesser training. Plus as we saw last week sometimes the lead 1 or 2 riders for a team (EDH, Stannard) might have issues and not be there but the riders in support (Eisel) still manage to post a respectable place on the GC

At his age think he shows a good level of maturity and understands that his time will come.

ocdupalais

Here's hoping that he's trying to deflect a smidgen of pressure away from himself. Obviously, if he ends up doing grunt work for others earlier on in the race, he won't be a factor in the finale: but I'm going to continue to stay faithful to the memories of the damage he caused to some rather top names last year.
e.g.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-c ... -2/results

danlikesbikes

OCDuPalais wrote:

Here's hoping that he's trying to deflect a smidgen of pressure away from himself. Obviously, if he ends up doing grunt work for others earlier on in the race, he won't be a factor in the finale: but I'm going to continue to stay faithful to the memories of the damage he caused to some rather top names last year.
e.g.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-c ... -2/results

Was very impressive, same as TOB too seems to climb with such a smooth style like he's hardly peddling. Looks V classy to me & hope he has a good weekend, even if he is in the service of others you never know on a tight hilly course what might happen.

sadlybiggins

He is an exciting rider to watch and I hope he gets chances with Sky and stays fit and motivated. He also seems a bit more "human" somehow than a lot of other riders, if that doesn't sound dumb.

danlikesbikes

Doesn't sound dumb, think I know what you mean seems more down to earth possibly not that I've seen any interviews with sky riders who are not.

Hope this riding is doing his form good as seems like the team seem better settled this year & seemingly offering more chances for more riders, maybe thats just my view though.

thomthom

Was always going to play second fiddle on Sky. Such an exciting rider wasting his best years. Shame.

ocdupalais

ThomThom wrote:

Was always going to play second fiddle on Sky. Such an exciting rider wasting his best years. Shame.

My initial thought was to grant that statement full respect and careful consideration. After doing so, I have come to the conclusion that it's utter bo!!ocks.


You don't employ a rider who repeatedly put others to the sword on the steep stuff to play "second fiddle"... You don't test that rider out at the World Champ RR - with the out-going World Champ, the 1st & 2nd placed riders at the Tour and some of the top British riders in the peloton all riding in his service... You don't diminish/demoralise that rider but crushing any personal hopes with a hefty pay package and demands that "you will obey"...

What you might do (as is now bearing fruit for Froome, Porte, Henao, etc) is maximise each rider's strengths and seek out the root causes of their weaknesses. In other words, to develop them.

One of things that seems to be a regular features of JTL's career has unfortunately been a vulnerable state of health - prone to sickness: perhaps the first part of this season has been about getting him to operate at World Tour level week in, week out - rather than sporadically throughout the season. Maybe that will bear fruit - maybe not.

Also - where else could he have gone, Euskadi? Argos?

DL1987

SadlyBiggins wrote:

He is an exciting rider to watch and I hope he gets chances with Sky and stays fit and motivated. He also seems a bit more "human" somehow than a lot of other riders, if that doesn't sound dumb.

Maybe put that down to the fact he's got on the WT the hard way as opposed to the more sheltered BC route, sort of a "local boy done good" scenario.

squired

One of the things I like about Team Sky is that they seem to use all of their data to rank the riders. If you are putting out the best numbers in training you'll be at the top of the ladder. If you are a "team leader" but not riding well they will ride for someone else. So, if JTL is training well and impressing he will get his chances. If he doesn't get a leadership role he will also know why.

Henao is a quality rider with a real kick, so it is no surprise that Sky are backing him. Although he's been in a team role so far, Uran is also a very high quality rider.

thomthom

OCDuPalais wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Was always going to play second fiddle on Sky. Such an exciting rider wasting his best years. Shame.

My initial thought was to grant that statement full respect and careful consideration. After doing so, I have come to the conclusion that it's utter bo!!ocks.


You don't employ a rider who repeatedly put others to the sword on the steep stuff to play "second fiddle"... You don't test that rider out at the World Champ RR - with the out-going World Champ, the 1st & 2nd placed riders at the Tour and some of the top British riders in the peloton all riding in his service... You don't diminish/demoralise that rider but crushing any personal hopes with a hefty pay package and demands that "you will obey"...

What you might do (as is now bearing fruit for Froome, Porte, Henao, etc) is maximise each rider's strengths and seek out the root causes of their weaknesses. In other words, to develop them.

One of things that seems to be a regular features of JTL's career has unfortunately been a vulnerable state of health - prone to sickness: perhaps the first part of this season has been about getting him to operate at World Tour level week in, week out - rather than sporadically throughout the season. Maybe that will bear fruit - maybe not.

Also - where else could he have gone, Euskadi? Argos?

That all sound very well - but the man is not 21. I love his style on the bike. I love the history about this rider and I think it's a damn shame he's not on a team where he would be the dominant rider. Sky might do a lot of good things for his development but personally I'd like to see him winning - I can't see him doing that on Sky.

Plenty of teams he would have a leader role on. Plenty of teams.

DeadCalm

ThomThom wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Was always going to play second fiddle on Sky. Such an exciting rider wasting his best years. Shame.

My initial thought was to grant that statement full respect and careful consideration. After doing so, I have come to the conclusion that it's utter bo!!ocks.


You don't employ a rider who repeatedly put others to the sword on the steep stuff to play "second fiddle"... You don't test that rider out at the World Champ RR - with the out-going World Champ, the 1st & 2nd placed riders at the Tour and some of the top British riders in the peloton all riding in his service... You don't diminish/demoralise that rider but crushing any personal hopes with a hefty pay package and demands that "you will obey"...

What you might do (as is now bearing fruit for Froome, Porte, Henao, etc) is maximise each rider's strengths and seek out the root causes of their weaknesses. In other words, to develop them.

One of things that seems to be a regular features of JTL's career has unfortunately been a vulnerable state of health - prone to sickness: perhaps the first part of this season has been about getting him to operate at World Tour level week in, week out - rather than sporadically throughout the season. Maybe that will bear fruit - maybe not.

Also - where else could he have gone, Euskadi? Argos?

That all sound very well - but the man is not 21. I love his style on the bike. I love the history about this rider and I think it's a damn shame he's not on a team where he would be the dominant rider. Sky might do a lot of good things for his development but personally I'd like to see him winning - I can't see him doing that on Sky.

Plenty of teams he would have a leader role on. Plenty of teams.

Care to name some of these teams?

thomthom

For this Amstel in particular?

From the top of my head.. Saxo, Garmin, Vacansoleil, IAM, Orica, Argos, FDJ. Heck, he'd even have at least a co-leader role on Omega.

symo

No knocking of MDCC riders. Tis the LAW!!!

He is on a great team and will shine has his talent dictates. He is better at Sky with stronger riders forcing him to raise his game to the top than any other WT team. Especially SaxoBank which employs unrepentant dopers as team captains. Dartmoor beef ain't got no hormones.

danlikesbikes

Tend to agree that he might/probably would get a co leader role or even a leader role in most of those teams. However I don't think he is wasting his time at Sky, he seems to like the way they treat him (Know it sounds shallow but we all hear stories about even the best teams having issues in rider communication etc) & he is obviously benefiting from the scientific way the team approach his training. Plus in a race like this weekends I will stick by my statement that if he is a support rider and up near the front you never know what will happen. Look at G, Stanndard & EBH in P-R yet it was Bernie who came in higher.

Richmond Racer

ThomThom wrote:

For this Amstel in particular?

From the top of my head.. Saxo, Garmin, Vacansoleil, IAM, Orica, Argos, FDJ. Heck, he'd even have at least a co-leader role on Omega.

Garmin: he'd be riding for Martin and Hesjedal
OGE: for Gerrans and Albasini
Saxo: for Kreuziger and Kroon
Vacansoleil: for Leukemans
OPQS: for Devenyns and Kwiatkowski, maybe even Velits


JTL has had a shaky start to riding the ProTour, he's the first to admit that in interviews - even now he's just getting over a bad saddle sore. Think any of the teams I've listed would give him the leader's nod over the more established guys in the Ardennes, many of whom are going fairly well right now?

thomthom

Bar Ryder and Albasini, those are not riders that should be stronger for this kind of race.

Kroon especially.

This race looks like the WC course and he did great there.

Richmond Racer

The point is that these are all established guys, who'd be much more likely to get the nod over a newbie neo pro (his age nothwithstanding, he's basically a neo) who's suffered a shaky start to his ProTour career and who's still getting used to riding in the peloton of the ProTour

EDIT: Gerrans 3rd in 2011 - but not suited for this race?? Tough crow, Thom Thom...

Back to the Sky point: the likes of Henao are flying, whereas JTL is plainly not. Back to the Worlds last year, JTL built up to peak for ToB and with the Worlds a week later he was in the perfect point, form wise.

I'd love to see MDCC's finest flying on Sunday. Just dont see that at this point picking him over certain others, stands up necessarily, especially for a team that have a lot to lose by backing the wrong horse, as opposed to a team with little hope of success to start with

thomthom

Richmond Racer wrote:

The point is that these are all established guys, who'd be much more likely to get the nod over a newbie neo pro (his age nothwithstanding, he's basically a neo) who's suffered a shaky start to his ProTour career and who's still getting used to riding in the peloton of the ProTour

EDIT: Gerrans 3rd in 2011 - but not suited for this race?? Come on, Thom Thom...

Gerrans too, obviously. (But I think they are going with Albasini for this).

But to the first bit; That makes perfectly sense when riding for Sky.

But that's why I think it's a shame he didn't go for a smaller team. As I said to begin with - he was always going to be playing second fiddle there. Not blaming Sky. Not blaming Jonathan, the money are probably good, but that's how his position is and he could have been much higher up in the hierarchy - neo or not - in plenty of others teams.

But hey - I don't know his programme. Maybe he's peaking for completely different races. I just think it's a shame as I think he would have done a job in the next weeks - given he had the support.

frenchfighter

The best Henao photo out there ; )

danlikesbikes

ThomThom wrote:

But that's why I think it's a shame he didn't go for a smaller team. As I said to begin with - he was always going to be playing second fiddle there. Not blaming Sky. Not blaming Jonathan, the money are probably good, but that's how his position is and he could have been much higher up in the hierarchy - neo or not - in plenty of others teams.

You could look at it another way though, as others have quite rightly said that Sky have a team of 2,3,4,5th placed riders who were purchased and trained up to be as good as many other teams number 1 rider, with the rest of the team they seem to have applied a training regime that would make them pretty high up the order in other teams too.

If in 2-3 years time he his still not being repaid by the team in some events as leader or co-leader he could easily go then to anther team.

Look at riders like Dan Martin or Nicolas Roche they were both though of as young super stars but ended up in team where they played second fiddle to team leaders but (no offence meant) lower level leaders and it has slowed them up somewhat in their own development. Roche left to go to Saxo but on the basis of supporting Bert in the mountains on GT races & I hope that he gets the chance to ride on his own but feel that he might not.

DeadCalm

Richmond Racer wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

For this Amstel in particular?

From the top of my head.. Saxo, Garmin, Vacansoleil, IAM, Orica, Argos, FDJ. Heck, he'd even have at least a co-leader role on Omega.

Garmin: he'd be riding for Martin and Hesjedal
OGE: for Gerrans and Albasini
Saxo: for Kreuziger and Kroon
Vacansoleil: for Leukemans
OPQS: for Devenyns and Kwiatkowski, maybe even Velits

Plus...
FDJ: wouldn't have been interested in him unless he was French
Argos: how would he fit into their lead out train?
IAM: pro-conti. He might as well have stayed at NetApp-Endura.

Also, people are assuming that he had the pick of all teams. I don't know how many teams he had offers from but suspect it wasn't as many as some might think.

thomthom

Danlikesbikes wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

But that's why I think it's a shame he didn't go for a smaller team. As I said to begin with - he was always going to be playing second fiddle there. Not blaming Sky. Not blaming Jonathan, the money are probably good, but that's how his position is and he could have been much higher up in the hierarchy - neo or not - in plenty of others teams.

You could look at it another way though, as others have quite rightly said that Sky have a team of 2,3,4,5th placed riders who were purchased and trained up to be as good as many other teams number 1 rider, with the rest of the team they seem to have applied a training regime that would make them pretty high up the order in other teams too.

If in 2-3 years time he his still not being repaid by the team in some events as leader or co-leader he could easily go then to anther team.

Can you name me an example? A rider that revived his carreer or trained up by Sky to take that 'Sky-momentum' with him to his new team with same succes?

danlikesbikes

ThomThom wrote:

Can you name me an example? A rider that revived his carreer or trained up by Sky to take that 'Sky-momentum' with him to his new team with same succes?

Not a stats man myself so without having to look up who was where before & after Sky is not really my thing but first one that comes to mind is Flecha.

Sure that others may know of a few more though.

thomthom

Flecha was neither trained up or revived at Sky.