Etape/Marmotte Prep - Tempo Workouts
bahzob
Posts: 2,195
In a couple of recent posts about training for the Etape/Marmotte and similar events where the main challenge is tackling long mountain climbs I have suggested including tempo workouts as part of preparation. Here is a bit more about these, along with a couple of real examples.
Tempo is around:
76-90% of FTP
84-94% of HR at lactate threshold (LTHR)
(http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-levels,-by-andrew-coggan.aspx
Workouts in this zone may not feature in standard plans aimed at road racing or century rides. These will be more likely to concentrate on <=20mins threshold+ intervals and long duration "endurance" rides.
Still I would encourage anyone intending to tackle serious mountain climbs to be doing tempo sessions regularly, once or twice a week, from now on. They can be done standalone or as part of a longer endurance ride.
This is for the following reasons:
>> Just by themselves they are a good way to build general fitness.
Tempo is above endurance and below threshold and is sometime referred to as the "sweetspot" zone. It gets this name because it a nice compromise in terms of a workout that generates a good amount of training stress which will promote fitness while not being too fatiguing, so needs little recovery.
>> The climbs in the Etape/Marmotte and the like will be done in this zone.
Practising in it is consistent with the first rule of training "specificity". It allows you to really nail the efforts you need to make in in terms of perceived effort, pacing, eating/drinking and the likes.
>> Long climbs are a mental test not just a physical one
They require a solid focus from anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour or more. Threshold+ efforts, while harder in terms of load, are too short to really build this and endurance efforts are too easy, especially if they include sections where you coast. Hard tempo efforts help train this mental focus. If done on a turbo they are probably as hard or harder than the real thing in this respect.
With a bit of imagination, you can pretty much replicate a climb or even a whole route despite not having access to mountains. If you are used to doing such a tempo "climb" once or twice a week the event will be less taxing. Indeed, given the adrenaline of competition plus the motivation of climbing the real thing compared to riding a turbo the climbs may well feel, if not exactly easy also not especially hard, allowing you to really enjoy your time and hopefully hit whatever targets you have set yourself..
As an example of the sort of thing I am talking about here are a couple of tempo workouts I did over the last couple of days. (Both were done on a VR turbo using some real ride terrain data, links show WKO).
Climb1: This is a Cat 1 Alpine climb equivalent, with a constant gradient from bottom to top. Warmed up before start then set a flat pace start to finish except a final push final km. "Climb" took 40 minutes, total workout time around just over an hour.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-61JIt0rGsMs/UWUhM9MIlsI/AAAAAAAABq4/qaTAaGkRM-Y/s320/climb1.jpg
Climb2: This is a HC equivalent with more variable gradients. I rode it from cold to simulate arriving at it following a long descent. At the top there is a long section of mixed terrain. Total work time was 1r 50m which makes the whole thing about as tough as the toughest climb out there. The "climb"is pretty much exactly what would be needed for a sub hour Alpe D'Heuz which is very much the point of workouts like this. It allows you to get a good assessment of your form and be confident about how you will be able to tackle mountain climbs even if you live in area where the hardest hill is easier than the first couple of bends on the Alpe
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xRf61LGqryw/UWUhS27BWFI/AAAAAAAABrA/VXmf4zlY6lM/s320/climb2.jpg
Some key stats
Climb 1.
Sector..........Time..........Watts..........%FTP.....HR.....%LTHR..........Drift
Warmup.....3:10..........285......... 84%..........144.........84%.......... n/a
Climb........38:28......294/295.......86%......157/162.......93%..........2.5%
Push..........2:18..........318.........94%..........165.........96%..........n/a
Climb 2
Sector..........Time..........Watts..........%FTP....HR..........%LTHR..........Drift
Warmup......13:23..........295..........87%..........152..........88%..........7.1%
Climb.........46:13...... 285/285.......84%.......160/160.......93%..........0.4%
To end........49:57..........252..........74%..........152..........88%........ -1.6%
Notes:
>Watts are shown since I have a powermeter. For steady efforts such as this speed is also a good indicator for the purposes of setting target times and measuring improvement. Regardless of whether you use watts or speed one other thing to monitor is perceived effort. One aim is develop a "feel" for these sorts of efforts that you can take and replicate on the real thing.
>The two numbers in the climb row are the values for the first and second half of the climb. They are consistent which a good sign especially on Climb 2 where the gradient was pretty variable.
>Both climbs were done towards the top of tempo zone both in terms of power and HR. When starting out with these efforts a useful progression is to pace the first attempt at the bottom of the zone, then make each subsequent attempt a bit harder.
> When under load HR will naturally go up with time, even for the same power. "Drift" is a measure of this and it is automatically calculated by tools such as WKO. It can be a useful indicator, especially for steady state sub threshold efforts like tempo climbs. (If using speed as a pacing indicator you can calculate it by splitting the work zone in half. calculating the average HR per kmh for each then dividing the second half by the first.) . While it varies with time in zone and ambient conditions as a general rule the lower the number the more comfortable the zone is. One sign of getting fitter is this number coming down for the same power output and any number under 5% is a good sign. (Note drift is useless for intervals with very variable power or while still warming up as the table shows)
> The second climb happened to have an extended period of variable terrain afterwards including some downhill sections which is why the power is less. This would be the same in a real event. Sustaining the same average power in such conditions would require a number threshold+ efforts which will be unduly fatiguing.
> I find breathing is a good way to pace the efforts for these climbs. Good rhythm of deep but unforced breaths through the mouth, with a short pause between each.
>The cadence on the climbs was a steady 74-76rpm. I kept it deliberately low as I wanted to focus on using big slow endurance muscles. I also made a specific effort to keep quad effort to a minimum for the same reason. The only time they were pushed hard was on any short sections of threshold+.
> Like the examples I would advise doing these efforts both with and without a warmup. This reflects the reality, some climbs you will approach on the flat so can warm up, others start immediately following a long descent so you will be pretty cold.
>Warmup was done at steady tempo pace. This simulates what should happen during a climb. It is much better to start at plan or below and push on in the second half than try to push hard from the start. This applies even more on climbs like the Alpe d'Huez where the hardest section is at the start. This is one time not to copy the pros who are racing head to head with those around them. They will attack here to try to break the others. There is no point doing this in a sportive where you are racing the clock rather than those in your group.
Hope this is useful to those looking forward to the Etape and Marmotte. GL if this includes you.
Tempo is around:
76-90% of FTP
84-94% of HR at lactate threshold (LTHR)
(http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-levels,-by-andrew-coggan.aspx
Workouts in this zone may not feature in standard plans aimed at road racing or century rides. These will be more likely to concentrate on <=20mins threshold+ intervals and long duration "endurance" rides.
Still I would encourage anyone intending to tackle serious mountain climbs to be doing tempo sessions regularly, once or twice a week, from now on. They can be done standalone or as part of a longer endurance ride.
This is for the following reasons:
>> Just by themselves they are a good way to build general fitness.
Tempo is above endurance and below threshold and is sometime referred to as the "sweetspot" zone. It gets this name because it a nice compromise in terms of a workout that generates a good amount of training stress which will promote fitness while not being too fatiguing, so needs little recovery.
>> The climbs in the Etape/Marmotte and the like will be done in this zone.
Practising in it is consistent with the first rule of training "specificity". It allows you to really nail the efforts you need to make in in terms of perceived effort, pacing, eating/drinking and the likes.
>> Long climbs are a mental test not just a physical one
They require a solid focus from anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour or more. Threshold+ efforts, while harder in terms of load, are too short to really build this and endurance efforts are too easy, especially if they include sections where you coast. Hard tempo efforts help train this mental focus. If done on a turbo they are probably as hard or harder than the real thing in this respect.
With a bit of imagination, you can pretty much replicate a climb or even a whole route despite not having access to mountains. If you are used to doing such a tempo "climb" once or twice a week the event will be less taxing. Indeed, given the adrenaline of competition plus the motivation of climbing the real thing compared to riding a turbo the climbs may well feel, if not exactly easy also not especially hard, allowing you to really enjoy your time and hopefully hit whatever targets you have set yourself..
As an example of the sort of thing I am talking about here are a couple of tempo workouts I did over the last couple of days. (Both were done on a VR turbo using some real ride terrain data, links show WKO).
Climb1: This is a Cat 1 Alpine climb equivalent, with a constant gradient from bottom to top. Warmed up before start then set a flat pace start to finish except a final push final km. "Climb" took 40 minutes, total workout time around just over an hour.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-61JIt0rGsMs/UWUhM9MIlsI/AAAAAAAABq4/qaTAaGkRM-Y/s320/climb1.jpg
Climb2: This is a HC equivalent with more variable gradients. I rode it from cold to simulate arriving at it following a long descent. At the top there is a long section of mixed terrain. Total work time was 1r 50m which makes the whole thing about as tough as the toughest climb out there. The "climb"is pretty much exactly what would be needed for a sub hour Alpe D'Heuz which is very much the point of workouts like this. It allows you to get a good assessment of your form and be confident about how you will be able to tackle mountain climbs even if you live in area where the hardest hill is easier than the first couple of bends on the Alpe
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xRf61LGqryw/UWUhS27BWFI/AAAAAAAABrA/VXmf4zlY6lM/s320/climb2.jpg
Some key stats
Climb 1.
Sector..........Time..........Watts..........%FTP.....HR.....%LTHR..........Drift
Warmup.....3:10..........285......... 84%..........144.........84%.......... n/a
Climb........38:28......294/295.......86%......157/162.......93%..........2.5%
Push..........2:18..........318.........94%..........165.........96%..........n/a
Climb 2
Sector..........Time..........Watts..........%FTP....HR..........%LTHR..........Drift
Warmup......13:23..........295..........87%..........152..........88%..........7.1%
Climb.........46:13...... 285/285.......84%.......160/160.......93%..........0.4%
To end........49:57..........252..........74%..........152..........88%........ -1.6%
Notes:
>Watts are shown since I have a powermeter. For steady efforts such as this speed is also a good indicator for the purposes of setting target times and measuring improvement. Regardless of whether you use watts or speed one other thing to monitor is perceived effort. One aim is develop a "feel" for these sorts of efforts that you can take and replicate on the real thing.
>The two numbers in the climb row are the values for the first and second half of the climb. They are consistent which a good sign especially on Climb 2 where the gradient was pretty variable.
>Both climbs were done towards the top of tempo zone both in terms of power and HR. When starting out with these efforts a useful progression is to pace the first attempt at the bottom of the zone, then make each subsequent attempt a bit harder.
> When under load HR will naturally go up with time, even for the same power. "Drift" is a measure of this and it is automatically calculated by tools such as WKO. It can be a useful indicator, especially for steady state sub threshold efforts like tempo climbs. (If using speed as a pacing indicator you can calculate it by splitting the work zone in half. calculating the average HR per kmh for each then dividing the second half by the first.) . While it varies with time in zone and ambient conditions as a general rule the lower the number the more comfortable the zone is. One sign of getting fitter is this number coming down for the same power output and any number under 5% is a good sign. (Note drift is useless for intervals with very variable power or while still warming up as the table shows)
> The second climb happened to have an extended period of variable terrain afterwards including some downhill sections which is why the power is less. This would be the same in a real event. Sustaining the same average power in such conditions would require a number threshold+ efforts which will be unduly fatiguing.
> I find breathing is a good way to pace the efforts for these climbs. Good rhythm of deep but unforced breaths through the mouth, with a short pause between each.
>The cadence on the climbs was a steady 74-76rpm. I kept it deliberately low as I wanted to focus on using big slow endurance muscles. I also made a specific effort to keep quad effort to a minimum for the same reason. The only time they were pushed hard was on any short sections of threshold+.
> Like the examples I would advise doing these efforts both with and without a warmup. This reflects the reality, some climbs you will approach on the flat so can warm up, others start immediately following a long descent so you will be pretty cold.
>Warmup was done at steady tempo pace. This simulates what should happen during a climb. It is much better to start at plan or below and push on in the second half than try to push hard from the start. This applies even more on climbs like the Alpe d'Huez where the hardest section is at the start. This is one time not to copy the pros who are racing head to head with those around them. They will attack here to try to break the others. There is no point doing this in a sportive where you are racing the clock rather than those in your group.
Hope this is useful to those looking forward to the Etape and Marmotte. GL if this includes you.
Martin S. Newbury RC
0
Comments
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Great post. Super useful, thanks!0
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+1 for alp type climbs being a mental thing too - focus is required to go fast enough but not blow - a fine line and tricky given heat, numbers of cyclists around you etc.....0
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Another tip; at the start everyone goes a bit crazy - all that pent up energy just rushing out! Some will scream out of the gate like scalded cats - stay calm, ignore them, take it nice and easy, stay out of trouble, wait for the 1st climb!0
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To summarise: do some tempo rides. Was there any need for all that waffle coach bahzob?More problems but still living....0
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amaferanga wrote:To summarise: do some tempo rides. Was there any need for all that waffle coach bahzob?
Go troll somewhere else you sad man.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
spearmint wino wrote:Great post. Super useful, thanks!
Agreed, thanks!0 -
I'm doing the Maratona again this year. I agree that tempo rides are fundamental. At the moment, on a long weekend ride, I am doing 4 x (45min tempo, 15min endurance).
During the week, when I can only manage 90 mins at a time, I'm doing harder, shorter intervals.
As an aside, Coggan defines "Sweet Spot" as Upper Tempo/Lower Threshold, not the whole of Tempo.0 -
My mistake. Yes "Sweets Spot" is at slightly higher intensity than "Tempo".
Though all the various terms sometimes feel a bit like splitting hairs this may be a useful distinction in this case as it may provide a guide as to how to pace based on what you want to try to achieve.
As a rough rule of thumb if the aim is mainly one of survival and getting round then climbing within the tempo range should be safe strategy.
If on the other hand the aim is to go for the best time then sweet spot is a good place to pace. I know that someone who came in the top 10 of the Marmotte one year didn't just put out more absolute power, he also pushed himself harder climbing at 95% or so of threshold. This can be risky though, previous year he tried same strategy and failed to finish.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Nice post Bahzob 8)0
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Good post Bahzob.
Personally I think the overgearing replicates the alpine climbing so is an important ingredient.
I've just done an hour at 150-155 (FTP is 173) so it not too hard a workout but a kept my cadence at around 70 which makes it much more taxing. I find this especially important since I normally like pedal.0 -
If you are referring to who I think you are then this %FTP would not be optimal for a fast time for most people. Doing the Marmotte in 6hrs and coming 9th is very different to doing it in 8+hrs and getting Gold!! Being in the front group of a race means that you may go with the pace of the group rather your 'optimal' pace. And the shorter event/climb times mean that a higher FTP% is also achievable. (BTW I believe he DNF'd the previous year due to illness - along with 3 team mates - rather than pace).bahzob wrote:If on the other hand the aim is to go for the best time then sweet spot is a good place to pace. I know that someone who came in the top 10 of the Marmotte one year didn't just put out more absolute power, he also pushed himself harder climbing at 95% or so of threshold. This can be risky though, previous year he tried same strategy and failed to finish.Rich0 -
RichA wrote:
If you are referring to who I think you are then this %FTP would not be optimal for a fast time for most people. Doing the Marmotte in 6hrs and coming 9th is very different to doing it in 8+hrs and getting Gold!! Being in the front group of a race means that you may go with the pace of the group rather your 'optimal' pace. And the shorter event/climb times mean that a higher FTP% is also achievable. (BTW I believe he DNF'd the previous year due to illness - along with 3 team mates - rather than pace).bahzob wrote:If on the other hand the aim is to go for the best time then sweet spot is a good place to pace. I know that someone who came in the top 10 of the Marmotte one year didn't just put out more absolute power, he also pushed himself harder climbing at 95% or so of threshold. This can be risky though, previous year he tried same strategy and failed to finish.
You are quite right. Looking again at what I wrote I realise I made a mistake, I had meant to say that some go even harder than sweetspot which can bring good rewards but is also risky. I remembered the DNF, sorry if I got the reason wrong.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
inseine wrote:Good post Bahzob.
Personally I think the overgearing replicates the alpine climbing so is an important ingredient.
I've just done an hour at 150-155 (FTP is 173) so it not too hard a workout but a kept my cadence at around 70 which makes it much more taxing. I find this especially important since I normally like pedal.
I'd agree that as much as possible its good to make the training similar to the real thing. However I would also suggest that the tempo sessions can be used to experiment a bit. Cadence would be one example, b trying doing the same session at different cadences. If doing one at 70rpm feels much harder than doing one at 80rpm while the power remains the same then it may be worth trying to fit more gears so that the climbs can be done at 80.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
bernithebiker wrote:Another tip; at the start everyone goes a bit crazy - all that pent up energy just rushing out! Some will scream out of the gate like scalded cats - stay calm, ignore them, take it nice and easy, stay out of trouble, wait for the 1st climb!
I disagree, full gas all the way to the first climb. I like sitting in someones wheel for the first 20km and then taking over them as soon as it goes up hill and they are spent!Scott Addict 2011
Giant TCR 20120 -
Markwb79 wrote:bernithebiker wrote:Another tip; at the start everyone goes a bit crazy - all that pent up energy just rushing out! Some will scream out of the gate like scalded cats - stay calm, ignore them, take it nice and easy, stay out of trouble, wait for the 1st climb!
I disagree, full gas all the way to the first climb. I like sitting in someones wheel for the first 20km and then taking over them as soon as it goes up hill and they are spent!
I dont think either extreme is the right way. Everyone does go crazy which means regardless of which group you start with there will be other groups going past left and right.
If getting a fast time is a target then the best tactic here is just be aware of this and catch a passing train. There should be no need to go anything like full gas to stay with it, you can just tick over and let whichever idiot is at the front of it do the work.
If however you are more concerned with getting round all you want to do here is get nicely warmed up so just find a nice group moving at a comfortable pace and stay with it. All you will have "lost" compared to the fast groups is a few minutes to the first climb.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
bahzob wrote:Markwb79 wrote:bernithebiker wrote:Another tip; at the start everyone goes a bit crazy - all that pent up energy just rushing out! Some will scream out of the gate like scalded cats - stay calm, ignore them, take it nice and easy, stay out of trouble, wait for the 1st climb!
I disagree, full gas all the way to the first climb. I like sitting in someones wheel for the first 20km and then taking over them as soon as it goes up hill and they are spent!
If getting a fast time is a target then the best tactic here is just be aware of this and catch a passing train. There should be no need to go anything like full gas to stay with it, you can just tick over and let whichever idiot is at the front of it do the work.
Sorry, I was being a little cynical. I was trying to get everyone else going full gas, so I could sit at the back and let them do the work
Scott Addict 2011
Giant TCR 20120
