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Cleat Eastwood
Posts: 7,508
Party time !!!!! 
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
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Comments
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DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0
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which old witch?2014 Planet X Pro Carbon
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Que the bronze memorial in my home town, Barnsley.0
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Celebrating the death of an ill old lady who's politics you disagree with?
All class."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:Celebrating the death of an ill old lady who's politics you disagree with?
All class.
Posted from behind your Daily Mail?0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:Celebrating the death of an ill old lady who's politics you disagree with?
All class.
Posted from behind your Daily Mail?
Posted from the point of view of somebody who thinks that glorying in anyone's death (short of a monster of the ilk of Hitler, Stalin etc) is unedifying."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
I won't be crying any crocodile tears over her death.disgruntledgoat wrote:Celebrating the death of an ill old lady who's politics you disagree with?
All class.
You reap what you sew.
I dare say there'll be plenty genuinely crying over her passing but I won't be hypocritical about it. I hated her when she was alive and the fact she's now dead dosen't change owt. I just hope in these austere times the tax payer won't be expected to foot any of her funeral costs.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
The ultimate revenge in politics is to predecease your enemies. Not only aren't they allowed to dance on your grave, they have to pay grudging respect to you on the evening news. Just watch how uncomfortable Neil Kinnock looksSpecialized Roubaix Elite 2015
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One of my friends in Glasgow has just heard fireworks go off outside 0
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Giraffoto wrote:The ultimate revenge in politics is to predecease your enemies. Not only aren't they allowed to dance on your grave, they have to pay grudging respect to you on the evening news. Just watch how uncomfortable Neil Kinnock looks 2014 Planet X Pro Carbon
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disgruntledgoat wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:Celebrating the death of an ill old lady who's politics you disagree with?
All class.
Posted from behind your Daily Mail?
Posted from the point of view of somebody who thinks that glorying in anyone's death (short of a monster of the ilk of Hitler, Stalin etc) is unedifying.
I understand where you're coming from on this, and I'll admit to feeling just a little uncomfortable when I open the champagne tonight.
There are a lot of people who feel that what she did went beyond mere politics and hit them at a level which seemed personal.
The older I get, the better I was.0 -
Anyone who celebrates this is at the same level as those who enjoyed the Sun headline "Gotcha" when the General Belgrano was sunk when heading away from the Falkland Islands. Thatcher told us to rejoice over some small victory a little while later. That was repulsive and disgusting, as she was, and we shouldn't stoop so low. Reserve your contempt for the blithering idiots currently in power, and you can rejoice at their inevitable (political) demise.0
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Good f ucking riddance0
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I must admit I cannot feel happy about anybody's death. However with Thatcher I hated her divisive policies and her deeply patronising nature. With a vengeance. Like many I spent many days as a student in the 80s protesting against her policies and always thought the day of her death would be joyous - but really it's not. Maybe because we seem to have now got another government in her image.0
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disgruntledgoat wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:Celebrating the death of an ill old lady who's politics you disagree with?
All class.
Posted from behind your Daily Mail?
Posted from the point of view of somebody who thinks that glorying in anyone's death (short of a monster of the ilk of Hitler, Stalin etc) is unedifying.
I'm not going to be opening any champagne myself, but you say it's OK to celebrate the deaths of "monsters" like Hitler or Stalin (which is fair enough), but can't other people have a lower threshold for monsterdom? Is Blair a monster? Under Thatcher's mob, homelessness doubled (or trebled, I can't remember which) while they sold off all the social housing for short-term political gain/political ideology. I wonder how many of those without a roof over their heads died cold, miserable, hungry, lonely deaths as a result of those policies. You might not think that this is enough to make her evil incarnate, but others might.0 -
Strange how few people will admit to supporting her and her politics with hindsight but the fact she was elected 3 times on the trot and then her successor achieved another term suggests that there was a significant number of supporters of her policies over the course of more than a decade and statistically there must be quite a few on here. It's a bit like religion discussions on here, you don't get any balance as one side is scared of ridicule. I suspect at least someone on here who makes a snide comment will have voted for her at some point though. I can certainly understand Frank's disdain for her having gone to school with many friends from mining communities in the mid 80s but even he isn't celebrating her death. Ultimately if her policies were so bad it was up to those of you who were eligible to vote in her era to vote her out of power - if you end up with someone who seems to be classed with great dictators whilst living in an open democracy then surely it is the voters who are to blame? One term can be a mistake but three times??0
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Tony Blair got elected 3 times. He was a c**t as well.0
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johnfinch wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:Celebrating the death of an ill old lady who's politics you disagree with?
All class.
Posted from behind your Daily Mail?
Posted from the point of view of somebody who thinks that glorying in anyone's death (short of a monster of the ilk of Hitler, Stalin etc) is unedifying.
I'm not going to be opening any champagne myself, but you say it's OK to celebrate the deaths of "monsters" like Hitler or Stalin (which is fair enough), but can't other people have a lower threshold for monsterdom? Is Blair a monster? Under Thatcher's mob, homelessness doubled (or trebled, I can't remember which) while they sold off all the social housing for short-term political gain/political ideology. I wonder how many of those without a roof over their heads died cold, miserable, hungry, lonely deaths as a result of those policies. You might not think that this is enough to make her evil incarnate, but others might.
I don't think that any political leader in a representative democracy who abides by the rule of law, respects term limits and allows dissent and opposition can be described as a monster. I think the UK focuses too much on personality in politics. Thatcher was a driving force and a figurehead of a British version of Friedmanesque monetarism, but the factors that led the country to elect, in a majority, a government that advertised itself as following those principles 3 times says that there was more to the phenomenom than one person however easy it is to blame them for everything that goes wrong.
To put it another way, nobody blames Brown exclusively for the banking crisis which has forced another economic realignment on to the country.
What is striking is how quickly the country was prepared to dismantle the post-war consensus and the deference and "whitehall knows best" attitude that went with it. To my mind the factors behind that were the country's decline as an industrial power, accompanied by the Union unrest of the 70s and the growing service industry sector realising the opportunities (ie cold hard cash) they could realise by freeing themselves from regulation."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Same applies though. People obviously thought he was less of a c**t than the alternatives. We have the power to decide who (of a admittedly limited pool) we want to govern our country. You can't class Thatcher or Blair in the same league as Stalin or Hitler or hundreds of other leaders, they obviously provided what a greater number wanted than the others. So yes, her politics undoubtably made some people's lives worse and others (who some may feel were less deserving) better but that's always the case with politics.0
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let me think thatcher or scargill or red robbo, and yes blair is a bigger cnut than thatcher ever wasAll lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....0
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Pross wrote:Same applies though. People obviously thought he was less of a c**t than the alternatives. We have the power to decide who (of a admittedly limited pool) we want to govern our country. You can't class Thatcher or Blair in the same league as Stalin or Hitler or hundreds of other leaders, they obviously provided what a greater number wanted than the others. So yes, her politics undoubtably made some people's lives worse and others (who some may feel were less deserving) better but that's always the case with politics.
Other than the bald fact he never (as party leader) willingly submitted to, or won an election, I agree. However, you misunderstand me. I was trying to communicate that events of the scale of the "Credit Crunch" or the liberalising of European economies in the 80s were beyond the control of mere individuals."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:I don't think that any political leader in a representative democracy who abides by the rule of law, respects term limits and allows dissent and opposition can be described as a monster.
You see, I would disagree with this, so we must have different thresholds for who is or isn't a monster. There are quite a few elected politicians who I would describe as totally and utterly evil, but that is just my opinion against yours.disgruntledgoat wrote:I think the UK focuses too much on personality in politics. Thatcher was a driving force and a figurehead of a British version of Friedmanesque monetarism, but the factors that led the country to elect, in a majority, a government that advertised itself as following those principles 3 times says that there was more to the phenomenom than one person however easy it is to blame them for everything that goes wrong.
I agree with the first part of what you say, but I don't think that the left does really blame her for everything.0 -
A quick perusal of the Comment Is Free section of the Guardian ought to disabuse you of that notion.
As to disagreeing, I'm glad we can do it respectfully. I think "evil" in terms of public life is expressed in terms of corruption, self serving and, in fortunately rare circumstances, setting out to do harm not through error or unforseen consequence but delberately and as an end in itself."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Pross wrote:Strange how few people will admit to supporting her and her politics with hindsight but the fact she was elected 3 times on the trot and then her successor achieved another term suggests that there was a significant number of supporters of her policies over the course of more than a decade and statistically there must be quite a few on here. It's a bit like religion discussions on here, you don't get any balance as one side is scared of ridicule. I suspect at least someone on here who makes a snide comment will have voted for her at some point though. I can certainly understand Frank's disdain for her having gone to school with many friends from mining communities in the mid 80s but even he isn't celebrating her death. Ultimately if her policies were so bad it was up to those of you who were eligible to vote in her era to vote her out of power - if you end up with someone who seems to be classed with great dictators whilst living in an open democracy then surely it is the voters who are to blame? One term can be a mistake but three times??
Agree 100%. And they weren't just close election victories, two of them were huge landslides. Yet no-one seems to admit voting for her..0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:Other than the bald fact he never (as party leader) willingly submitted to, or won an election, I agree. However, you misunderstand me. I was trying to communicate that events of the scale of the "Credit Crunch" or the liberalising of European economies in the 80s were beyond the control of mere individuals.
+1 for this. I hated Thatcher, her policies and her attitude but unfortunately she came to the fore because Labour had demonstrated an inability to organise a p*ss up in a brewery.0 -
Pross wrote:Same applies though. People obviously thought he was less of a c**t than the alternatives. We have the power to decide who (of a admittedly limited pool) we want to govern our country. You can't class Thatcher or Blair in the same league as Stalin or Hitler or hundreds of other leaders, they obviously provided what a greater number wanted than the others. So yes, her politics undoubtably made some people's lives worse and others (who some may feel were less deserving) better but that's always the case with politics.
Obviously I wouldn't class a Thatcher or a Blair alongside a mass-murdering dictator. I would say, however, that when you look at the FPTP electoral system, it's difficult to blame the people for the actions of the government because more people vote against the government than for it just about every time. I don't like the current coalition, but it's fair to say that they are probably the most representative government this country has had since WW2.0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:A quick perusal of the Comment Is Free section of the Guardian ought to disabuse you of that notion.
I've seen them, but I don't consider newspaper comments sections to be representative of anything other than the angry extreme of most political movements. Ever looked at the "best rated" comments underneath the Daily Telegraph articles? They wouldn't look of place on Stormfront.disgruntledgoat wrote:As to disagreeing, I'm glad we can do it respectfully. I think "evil" in terms of public life is expressed in terms of corruption, self serving and, in fortunately rare circumstances, setting out to do harm not through error or unforseen consequence but delberately and as an end in itself.
I, OTOH would have a lower limit, which would include knowingly following through with policies which, while not designed to harm, will have that effect (not just unforeseen consequences) and the harm done far outweighing any benefits.0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:Pross wrote:Same applies though. People obviously thought he was less of a c**t than the alternatives. We have the power to decide who (of a admittedly limited pool) we want to govern our country. You can't class Thatcher or Blair in the same league as Stalin or Hitler or hundreds of other leaders, they obviously provided what a greater number wanted than the others. So yes, her politics undoubtably made some people's lives worse and others (who some may feel were less deserving) better but that's always the case with politics.
Other than the bald fact he never (as party leader) willingly submitted to, or won an election, I agree. However, you misunderstand me. I was trying to communicate that events of the scale of the "Credit Crunch" or the liberalising of European economies in the 80s were beyond the control of mere individuals.
Sorry, my response was in response to the post above yours - you snuck in before me and I was too lazy to edit it to make it more clear!0
