Rider Down - Fatal

The Rookie

If you want to have a debate about bikes, take it elsewhere, I find the argument in this thread in very bad taste, I have my own opinion but won't add it in this thread.

I do see one of the easiest things to do re cyclist and HGV's is better rider education, we have all seen cyclists go up the left of large vehicles (HGV's and busses) and thought it madness, (not saying that was the case here please note), so a safety campaign to educate the cyclists would be very helpful, combined perhaps with a 'think bicycle' (as opposed to the 'think bike' motorbike one) campaign.

Education is often much cheaper than physical changes which frequantly have a limited impact.

okgo

Do you think in the eyes of the powers that be that 14 deaths in hundreds of thousands of journeys is 'a lot' though? That is a question I'd like to get a take on from those who make the decisions on these sorts of things.

Blandiblub

With regards to banning HGVs in rush hour, there's actually the opposite scheme already in place. Essentially, they are banned overnight to reduce noise pollution. This fatal accident seems to hammer the point home as to what this can result in.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/microsites/freigh ... cheme.aspx

il_principe

okgo wrote:

Do you think in the eyes of the powers that be that 14 deaths in hundreds of thousands of journeys is 'a lot' though? That is a question I'd like to get a take on from those who make the decisions on these sorts of things.

I suspect that it's considered within the bounds of acceptability. It's pretty clear that more could/should be done to prevent these accidents though. We all know how terrifying HGV's can be. I had an incident on 9 Elms last year that still makes feel a bit sick just thinking about it.

roger_merriman

okgo wrote:

Do you think in the eyes of the powers that be that 14 deaths in hundreds of thousands of journeys is 'a lot' though? That is a question I'd like to get a take on from those who make the decisions on these sorts of things.

Well it's about average, being a low number varies a fair % year on year. The nearly 50% including a HGV'S clearly show could do better.

I passed though that road on the day, nasty confusing bit of road. Very sad to hear.

vermin

Very sad. RIP.

Fireblade96

RIP.

Tipper trucks and skip lorries scare me - they're almost always driven with reckless speed. I've been deliberately forced out of the way by a skip lorry while driving my car !

spen666

Il Principe wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Very sad, both turning left, 'classic' HGV incident, more communication about the dangers of being on the left of an HGV are needed.

Or fewer HGV's
Or fewer HGV's during rush hour

etc etc

or fewer cyclists in rush hour?


Don't start calling for bans on things you don't like as it may be turned back on you

That's a ridiculous position to take. Lets all just sit around and never call for anything to be changed then shall we?

Besides which an increase in people cycle commuting can only be a good thing - reduces congestion, reduces strain on public transport, reduces pollution, reduces damage to roads, keeps people healthier. I appreciate that HGV's are a necessary evil especially in a city as economically active as London, but it's important to remember that cycle commuters also contribute an awful lot to the economy - without frequently mowing down and killing people. There needs to be a better balance struck and restricting access hours for HGV's seems logical. At the very least drivers should never be paid per trip/load. Incentivising HGV drivers to take risks, speed etc is unforgivable especially in an urban environment.

is it just narrow mindedness ( of being a cyclist and forgetting the fact society doesn't revolve around you) that stops you being able to understand that whilst you may call for the ban on lorries, far more people would be happier to ban cyclists at rush hour (indeed at any time) from the roads.

Once you establish it is appropriate to ban a group from using the road at a particular time, it will not be long before people in other groups call for cyclists or other groups to be banned.

Its a bit like banning people because you disagree with their views from posting on a forum. What happens when someone dislikes your view, then you get banned.

Banning groups of road users does not solve a problem, it creates problems

Ciar

Fireblade96 wrote:

RIP.

Tipper trucks and skip lorries scare me - they're almost always driven with reckless speed. I've been deliberately forced out of the way by a skip lorry while driving my car !

This has reminded me of something that happened years ago, driving back from Thurrock upto the GLC roundabout, i was on the inside my mum asleep in the passanger seat, lorry in the middle lane, slowly came across my lane, i wasnt going past him or even trying to overtake him, he cut straight across the lane didn't even see me sitting there, i had to push right upto the kirb, to avoid him taking the front of my car off, another lorry behind me saw it happen and tried to chase him down, to no avail.

all in all it's very sad state of affairs on our roads, worst part is i intend to start commuting to work in the next few weeks, this does put things into perspective.

EKE_38BPM

RIP


Rider education is a good idea as is cycle training for HGV and bus driver education.
WRT banning HGVs at certain times: there is currently an overnight ban. If you add a morning rush hour ban too, that would mean HGVs would only be allowed into central London for about 12 hours each day, so there would be more on the road during those hours. Maybe not such a good idea.

Sewinman

RIP...so often seems to be women on shoppers.

anonymousblackfg

RIP, very sad, having told three cyclists to move when they were sat in a similar position a few weeks ago it shows that more eductation is needed.

However, the government desperately needs to do more, consider that three times as much is spent of bicycles than motor bikes in this country but public/motorcycle eduction budgets way exceed cyclist ones. (I in no way mean cut the motorcycle budget)

Ian.B

More on this here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22090284

Kieran_Burns

Oh God...

From the Evening Standard web-site:

She lived upstairs from me and was a beautiful good-natured woman. Seriously intelligent too. Always had a little chat and smiled at the kids and had it all to live for. Now dead. Life is evanescent...

The Rookie

Very sad, but if it's genuinely only 2 cyclists dead this year, out of a total of circa 600 total deaths countrywide I can't see it getting high on the radar.

daddy0

The EPO works on that road. Someone in her office walked past as the HGV was being stopped. It'd run over her head and the driver was unaware of what happened until he was stopped by somebody flagging him down.

il_principe

spen666 wrote:

is it just narrow mindedness ( of being a cyclist and forgetting the fact society doesn't revolve around you) that stops you being able to understand that whilst you may call for the ban on lorries, far more people would be happier to ban cyclists at rush hour (indeed at any time) from the roads.

Once you establish it is appropriate to ban a group from using the road at a particular time, it will not be long before people in other groups call for cyclists or other groups to be banned.

Its a bit like banning people because you disagree with their views from posting on a forum. What happens when someone dislikes your view, then you get banned.

Banning groups of road users does not solve a problem, it creates problems

Spen. First of all I didn't say 'ban'. Secondly, there are already restrictions on HGV movements in London - The Lorry Control Scheme.

I'm not suggesting a 'ban' as you keep saying, just that a better balance needs to be struck. It'd be pretty tough to make a good case for 'banning' cyclists in Central London, not quite as tough to tighten/re-examine restrictions on HGV's (or the way drivers are incentivised). Quite besides which I doubt many Londoners are massive fans of HGV's trundling through our streets, be they cyclists, pedestrians or motorists.

Applespider

Daddy0 wrote:

It'd run over her head and the driver was unaware of what happened until he was stopped by somebody flagging him down.

That's a detail that I didn't need. I think we should bear in mind that people who knew Katherine might stop by here and it might distress them.

I work nearby and was conducting interviews in a room where the blue tent at the scene was clearly visible. It really drew the thoughts during the course of the morning. RIP - such a waste regardless of how it happened. The whole area around Victoria is unpleasant for cyclists and pedestrians at the moment - high fences on narrow temporary roads, blocked pedestrian crossings and traffic delays so that when vehicles do get some open tarmac, they seem to take the opportunity to accelerate.

BigLights

The victim has been named. Such a loss to society and to her family and friends. RIP, we're all thinking about her.

Graydawg

Such a shame to hear the news. 14 deaths in London last year is 14 too many. And 2 this year is 2 too many.

Poor girl.

Wrath Rob

Via Twitter:

Vigil to be held 6pm Friday at Victoria St/Palace St in memory of cyclist Dr Katharine Giles, killed in HGV collision http://tinyurl.com/c46ukng

Wrath Rob

Vigil has (apparently) now been cancelled due to the family wishes.