Rider Down - Fatal

il_principe

Tragic, another lady cyclist killed in Central London. Early reports indicate an HGV was involved, again.

RIP.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-cyclist-killed-in-central-london-rush-hour-tragedy-8563896.html

jonginge

RIP

menthel

Bad news- RIP. Just round the corner from my work.

rubertoe

I dont need to read another tragic story

RIP.

cyclingprop

.

pitchshifter

In her 20's . Horrid stretch of road to cycle on in my experience.

RIP

veronese68

RIP, and condolences to all that know her. Horrible news.

dhope

Horrible news

Kieran_Burns

I hate my imagination sometimes. I always get a picture of the last moments and the thought of that fills me with horror.

Poor woman

notsoblue

This is awful, awful news. RIP.

redvee

The picture accompanying the article is shocking :-(

Wrath Rob

The worst news. RIP

littleprawn

Not a great start to a week and so avoidable. What a horrible picture of the remains of the bike.

RIP and condolences to her family..

rolf_f

redvee wrote:

The picture accompanying the article is shocking :-(

Horrible. You can see so much of someones personality from so little. eg that she was someone who picked a vintage bike to commute on rather than a boring hybrid.

jamesco

Tragic, all too familiar news.

Rolf F wrote:

Horrible. You can see so much of someones personality from so little. eg that she was someone who picked a vintage bike to commute on rather than a boring hybrid.

WTF? How is the type of bike she was riding relevant? Maybe your projecting your prejudices on someone, based on so little.

Ciar

RIP

The Rookie

Very sad, both turning left, 'classic' HGV incident, more communication about the dangers of being on the left of an HGV are needed.

okgo

I do think the skirting on HGV's in central London is a good idea, that would stop a lot of these happening I think?

RIP

il_principe

The Beginner wrote:

Very sad, both turning left, 'classic' HGV incident, more communication about the dangers of being on the left of an HGV are needed.

Or fewer HGV's
Or fewer HGV's during rush hour

etc etc

rolf_f

jamesco wrote:

Tragic, all too familiar news.

Rolf F wrote:

Horrible. You can see so much of someones personality from so little. eg that she was someone who picked a vintage bike to commute on rather than a boring hybrid.

WTF? How is the type of bike she was riding relevant? Maybe your projecting your prejudices on someone, based on so little.

I was going to say something but what would be the point. Idiot... :roll: (I'll spell out what I meant in single syllable words if it helps but I don't think it was that hard to see what I was getting at......)

okgo wrote:

I do think the skirting on HGV's in central London is a good idea, that would stop a lot of these happening I think?

RIP

That's a good point. The bars that are currently fitted to the underside of trailers I assume are designed to stop cars going under them and they aren't seen eg in America. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to design something that protected people a bit more.

rjsterry

Like this?

http://lcc.org.uk/articles/lcc-challenges-construction-industry-to-adopt-its-safer-urban-lorry-to-reduce-lorry-cyclist-deaths

It's not that no-one knows what to do, just the lack of political will to force construction contractors to make the necessary changes.

The Rookie

okgo wrote:

I do think the skirting on HGV's in central London is a good idea, that would stop a lot of these happening I think?

RIP

Maybe, and maybe not, we would need a proper analysis of how the fatal injuries arrived at, whether skirting would help and then whether it could make it worse.

Busses effectively already have skirting, how do their injuries match to HGVs (some of which already have some skirting, like the aero M&S lorries).

Where a cyclist is squashed in the closing gap between large vehicle and barrier for example it's hard to see skirting making any difference.

While skirting may help, if the some 'effort' was put into another measure with greater benefits, then that should be targetted first, however first the 'powers that be' (TfL for example) need to put cyclists on an even footing with other traffic they are tasked with looking after the needs of.

jamesco

Rolf F wrote:

I was going to say something but what would be the point. Idiot... (I'll spell out what I meant in single syllable words if it helps but I don't think it was that hard to see what I was getting at......)

Yeah, yeah, whatever. What's "boring" is the belief that hybrids are boring and it's always appropriate to say so.

Rolf F wrote:

The bars that are currently fitted to the underside of trailers I assume are designed to stop cars going under them and they aren't seen eg in America. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to design something that protected people a bit more.

Might do some good, but only a bit. Bicycles and HGVs just don't mix and it's always going to be the cyclists who lose. Either segregate, ban one of them, or put up with the fact that deaths and injuries will keep on happening at a shocking rate. It'll probably be #3

rolf_f

jamesco wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

I was going to say something but what would be the point. Idiot... (I'll spell out what I meant in single syllable words if it helps but I don't think it was that hard to see what I was getting at......)

Yeah, yeah, whatever. What's "boring" is the belief that hybrids are boring and it's always appropriate to say so.

And seemingly never an innappropriate time to be carrying that huge chip on your shoulder? There's nothing wrong with hybrids but they are a default choice and about as individual a choice as buying a Ford Focus. Which was the point I was making. A modern hybrid gives no hint of the owners personality - a bike which does hints at the persons character which makes the photo more poigniant. Which was the point of my comment. The term "boring" might not be the ideal one but I would have thought it hardly the best place to have a hissy fit about it. There'll be plenty more threads for that.

jamesco

Rolf F wrote:

And seemingly never an innappropriate time to be carrying that huge chip on your shoulder? There's nothing wrong with hybrids but they are a default choice and about as individual a choice as buying a Ford Focus. Which was the point I was making. A modern hybrid gives no hint of the owners personality - a bike which does hints at the persons character which makes the photo more poigniant. Which was the point of my comment. The term "boring" might not be the ideal one but I would have thought it hardly the best place to have a hissy fit about it. There'll be plenty more threads for that.

What makes a bike boring? Does every bike tell the personality of its rider? What happens when the rider is on a borrowed bike or happens to dislike what they're riding?

Plenty of people who have experience and know what they need have bought hybrids. What you think of as a "default" choice is quite often simply the right tool for the job. This dreadful accident is no more lamentable because the victim was riding a vintage bike, and I doubt you can know her personality by seeing what she was riding.

The sight of any mangled bicycle is poignant enough.

rolf_f

jamesco wrote:

What makes a bike boring? Does every bike tell the personality of its rider? What happens when the rider is on a borrowed bike or happens to dislike what they're riding?

Plenty of people who have experience and know what they need have bought hybrids. What you think of as a "default" choice is quite often simply the right tool for the job. This dreadful accident is no more lamentable because the victim was riding a vintage bike, and I doubt you can know her personality by seeing what she was riding.

The sight of any mangled bicycle is poignant enough.

There is nothing wrong with boring. If everyone rode Colnago Masters then Colnago Masters would be boring. But they'd still be good bikes. But if everyone buys the same thing then it tells you nothing about that person as an individual because it isn't an individual choice. An unusual choice does. Oh I give in. I thought it was fairly clear what I was getting at but you misread everything I say whether deliberately or not. I could try to explain it 100 times and you still wouldn't get it would you?

jedster

dont want to sound sanctimonious chaps (I know, I know) but do you think this thread is the right place to debate whether certain bikes are boring?

spen666

Il Principe wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Very sad, both turning left, 'classic' HGV incident, more communication about the dangers of being on the left of an HGV are needed.

Or fewer HGV's
Or fewer HGV's during rush hour

etc etc

or fewer cyclists in rush hour?


Don't start calling for bans on things you don't like as it may be turned back on you

daviesee

Lorries have been banned from city centres during rush hours in certain parts (at least, maybe all now) of Canada for around 20 years. It was implemented to ease congestion but would also help prevent this type of incident.
Don't see why it couldn't be implemented here.

Hoopdriver

Rolf F wrote:

jamesco wrote:

What makes a bike boring? Does every bike tell the personality of its rider? What happens when the rider is on a borrowed bike or happens to dislike what they're riding?

Plenty of people who have experience and know what they need have bought hybrids. What you think of as a "default" choice is quite often simply the right tool for the job. This dreadful accident is no more lamentable because the victim was riding a vintage bike, and I doubt you can know her personality by seeing what she was riding.

The sight of any mangled bicycle is poignant enough.

There is nothing wrong with boring. If everyone rode Colnago Masters then Colnago Masters would be boring. But they'd still be good bikes. But if everyone buys the same thing then it tells you nothing about that person as an individual because it isn't an individual choice. An unusual choice does. Oh I give in. I thought it was fairly clear what I was getting at but you misread everything I say whether deliberately or not. I could try to explain it 100 times and you still wouldn't get it would you?

It was fairly clear what you were getting at - at least to me. Just let it go. It ain't worth the bother.

il_principe

spen666 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Very sad, both turning left, 'classic' HGV incident, more communication about the dangers of being on the left of an HGV are needed.

Or fewer HGV's
Or fewer HGV's during rush hour

etc etc

or fewer cyclists in rush hour?


Don't start calling for bans on things you don't like as it may be turned back on you

That's a ridiculous position to take. Lets all just sit around and never call for anything to be changed then shall we?

Besides which an increase in people cycle commuting can only be a good thing - reduces congestion, reduces strain on public transport, reduces pollution, reduces damage to roads, keeps people healthier. I appreciate that HGV's are a necessary evil especially in a city as economically active as London, but it's important to remember that cycle commuters also contribute an awful lot to the economy - without frequently mowing down and killing people. There needs to be a better balance struck and restricting access hours for HGV's seems logical. At the very least drivers should never be paid per trip/load. Incentivising HGV drivers to take risks, speed etc is unforgivable especially in an urban environment.