understanding Rock Shox dampers

jairaj

Hi guys,

This is mainly aimed at the RS expert Supersonic but I'm sure of you others can help too.

I'm thinking of upgrading the internals of my fork Rock Shox Revelations dual air u -turn and am trying to understand what my options are.

So I have a motion control damping with rebound adjust, compression adjust and threshold adjust.

I think since my forks were made RS have made a black box damper which added dual flow rebound but I think the compression side is the same?

Then the DNA damper, I'm not sure what has changed here. Is this just the black box but renamed? or have they improved something?

Then they made the RCT3 which I think is the same as DNA but offers a 3 position switch to choose between open, platform and lockout. Again did they change or improve anything else?

I don't ever use the lockout but I do sometimes dial in a bit of extra compression damping to stop the fork diving. Does this mean something like the black box or DNA dampers are right for me as the RCT3 is very likey to be just left on fully open all the time?

Or is the RCT3 their best and worth going for even if its going to be left fully open?

Many thanks, Jai

benpinnick

You are bang on except that DNA is just a slight revision on the plastic spring that houses the MoCo compression damper. It is a bit more reliable than the old one, thats all. RCT3 is good, but I found myself winding on the LSC and then running it open 90% of the time. Personally I would opt to spend my money converting the air side to coil than on the damper.

DCR00

what year are your revs ?

Most revs come with the dual flow rebound damper. If yours doesn't, i would replace that over changing the comp damper. The RCT3 is overpriced IMO for what it claims to do. If as you say, you leave the fork open most of the time, albeit with some LS damping, you wont gain much from the RCT3 and the £130 it will cost you.

DCR00

It should be said that the RCT3 and the rebound damper are two separate pieces. The rebound damper can be changed to dual flow without changing the comp damper - i have an RLT comp damper and a dual flow rebound on my Sektors

jairaj

Forks are 2010 Race which I think where a OEM fork and didn't come with the dual flow.

Ok so there is very little difference between the motion control RLT that I have and the newer RCT3 (in open position)?

My rebound circuit is suspected faulty as leaking oil. So I'm probably going to get the dual flow rebound here but leave the rest as it is.

hmm didn't think about a coil conversion. I didn't really want to make the fork any heavier. and I'm very happy with my dual air spring. I'm one of the few who find it actually quite straight forward to set up.

DCR00

Nope. I don't really get the point of the RCT3 TBH. You get more adjustment from an RLT, and its cheaper.

I guess not everyone can be ars*d understanding what their suspension is doing and so want nice and easy "one size fits all" pre-sets.

TBH the only reason i changed my Comp damper was my Sektor came with a Pushloc, which then broke, so i had no LS adjustment at all (not that i had any before). I set it in two clicks, with a relatively high threshold, and I haven't touched it since i set it.

jairaj

great thanks for the help guys. thats defo saved me a few quid. cheers.

supersonic

Black Box for 2010 is a titanium damper tube with adjustable compression damping, adjustable floodgate, fixed hig speed damping and the dual flow rebound damper. The best damper I have ever used.

If these are still available it is the one to get.

benpinnick

The ti damper tube are only very slightly lighter and much more prone to breaking than DNA dampers, so better off with the DNA version I reckon.

supersonic

If it fits in an older Reba. Not seen anyone do it.

jairaj

so does the old motion control damper not have the fixed high speed damping? only has adjustable low speed damping?

DCR00

Only the mission control dampers have adjustable HS

jairaj

yup I understand that the HS is fixed. but I'm trying to understand Super's comment about the black box being the best damper he has tried.

Is that because it has more features than the others? or same features but just done better?

DCR00

same features, just lighter

think it has Pushloc option also

good description here - http://www.sram.com/rockshox/technologi ... ontrol-dna

although this is for the latest models

jairaj

great thanks all for your help. I'm going to stick with just a rebound upgrade to the dual flow and keep everything the same as it is.

DCR00

no probs 8)

supersonic

Ok, let's clear this up. The standard Moco damper from 2010 does not have a high speed compression circuit, adjustable or otherwise. The BlackBox Ti damper had dual flow compression with a fixed high speed damper, and dual flow rebound. I found in use that it offered more accurate damping than the standard unit, utilising the travel more effectively, especially over multiple hits.

DCR00

i stand corrected

MoCo IS has the HS stack, but yeah seems that normal MoCo doesnt. I was under the impression that it had a fixed HS circuit...

Maybe i need a Blackbox comp damper then (any excuse)

supersonic

They are great, do it ;-)

DCR00

£100

http://www.bikesonline.com/black-box-ti ... op-cap.htm

jairaj

Is replacing that as simple as just taking the knobs off, and using a socket to remove the damper. Then the same but backwards to put the new one in?

If I'm careful and let the oil run back in to fork before removing, I won't even have to change oil? hmmm looks liek a very easy job to do, could do it my self without sending the fork off ... hmmm

supersonic

Pretty much! not sure whether the ti damper needs more oil though due to the less space it takes up.

jairaj

Do the Rev and the SID share the same part for the compression damper?

I understand that the rebound damper needs to be Rev specific one so it can extend to 150mm.

DCR00

According to that advert, they are the same

Interesting article here on the physical difference between MoCo and BB

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/08/20/tec ... rol-works/

jairaj

from doing some more searching around on the web, I *think* that the older SID and Rev shared the same BBMC damper but I think the newer SID has something different.

Adverts for older SIDs and Rev dampers are grouped together. While dampers for newer SIDs do not mention the Rev.

thanks for article its a good read.

DCR00

They come with the daft pushloc, but im pretty sure i could use the RLT adjuster off my existing damper

I'm sorely tempted....

DCR00

ordered from CRC

jairaj

What the black box ti damper? got link I can't find it on their site.

DCR00

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=54651

DCR00

damper arrived this morning



dimensions are slightly different from the existing MoCo damper in that the BBMC is 10mm shorter, but a good look through the SRAM parts catalaogue shows that SID/REBA/REV/SEKTOR dampers are all interchangable anyway, so slight panic over :shock:

The Rev oil chart for 2011 shows that you need a further 3ml (133ml) of oil in the damper side if running BBMC, which prob accounts for the dimension change

Link here -http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/nFZpbLpcEb2QbHC2wXrotxY3I0fsguUfN7Dd2h5Nx4U/mtime:1301943073/sites/default/files/techdocs/2011-rockshox-fork-oil-chart.pdf

jairaj

thanks for the info.

Can you see how easy it is to disconnect the compression knob spring so you can use it like a crown mounted adjuster? The holes on the BBMC look much smaller than the plastic version, looks very tricky to do. The remote lockout does nothing for me, I would want a crown mounted adjuster. So holding out till I find a bargain with the crown adjust type one.