Cant deal with low inertia situations

MarkAshton

Assuming my definition of low inertia is correct: I.e. requires a large amount of force to turn the pedals...

Then I am hopeless and putting out power in low inertia situations. In order of how bad it is:

- Gradual incline with headwind
- Headwind on flat
- Gradual Incline

It doesn't matter if I try and mash the pedals or spin away, the power just doesn't come. If I mash, it feels like I am pushing through treacle and my legs explode. If I spin my normal cadence, I am just not putting out enough power.

Its really frustrating and I'm not sure how I improve this...

danlikesbikes

In simple terms seems like your good at the higher cadence lighter gear type efforts? Which if so and this is your style then little to worry about.

If you feel that larger gear & lower cadence is an weakness then you need to train specifically for this to get better.

If you have a turbo do some interval work if not do it on the road. Perhaps you need to look at your technique also as often when in a big gear this can go out of the window also?

MarkAshton

Danlikesbikes wrote:

In simple terms seems like your good at the higher cadence lighter gear type efforts? Which if so and this is your style then little to worry about.

If you feel that larger gear & lower cadence is an weakness then you need to train specifically for this to get better.

If you have a turbo do some interval work if not do it on the road. Perhaps you need to look at your technique also as often when in a big gear this can go out of the window also?

So practice pushing a big gear at lower cadences? How often should I do this? I have tried in the past, but dont really do a training block. It all just feels wrong when I push a big gear at lower cadences. More like a weights session than riding a bike! I have read mixed reviews about big gear/low cadence... It is defiantly something which holds me back, but I am barking up the wrong tree??

Tom Dean

It sounds like you are just saying it is harder to pedal uphill or into the wind. It's normal!

danlikesbikes

Do it in intervals.

On a road ride do 2mins in a big gear/low cadence and concentrate on pushing and getting your pedals to go round smooth, then do 2mins recovery. Keep repeating & possibly look to extend your interval to say 3mins X 5 repeats but keep your speed constant is the key. Don't drop cadence and into a bigger gear and loose the speed, yes it can feel like a leg workout in the gym but if you build it into a ride you will notice a difference.

MarkAshton

Tom Dean wrote:

It sounds like you are just saying it is harder to pedal uphill or into the wind. It's normal!

No, Im saying I can sustain more power on the flat with a tailwind or no wind as opposed to the smae flat with a headwind...

danlikesbikes

Forgot to add that not all riders a built the same & whilst in theory you can only put out the power that you can put out some people prefer to spin and others grind it out a bit.

Personally I am a bit of a spinner, but do work on my bigger gear efforts & have found that doing intervals really helped me out. Can be quite boring but if on a rolling hills where the gradient may not be the same find it helps to be able to out a bit more rather than go from the big ring.

imposter2.0

MarkAshton wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

It sounds like you are just saying it is harder to pedal uphill or into the wind. It's normal!

No, Im saying I can sustain more power on the flat with a tailwind or no wind as opposed to the smae flat with a headwind...

You just agreed with Tom. It's the same for everyone, I suspect.

styxd

Power is power, whether you are riding into the wind or away from it.

I think its a mental issue - pedal harder!

Or, try adjusting your saddle position (or get a bike fit if you can afford it). I find certain saddle positions favour lower cadence and climbing hills, where as other favour spinning.

MarkAshton

Imposter wrote:

MarkAshton wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

It sounds like you are just saying it is harder to pedal uphill or into the wind. It's normal!

No, Im saying I can sustain more power on the flat with a tailwind or no wind as opposed to the same flat with a headwind...

You just agreed with Tom. It's the same for everyone, I suspect.

I suspect its not the same for everyone by a long shot. I am saying I can't SUSTAIN as much POWER into the wind on a flat piece of road compared to the same flat piece of road with a tailwind for the same duration.

There must be a limiting factor which limits me...

Ill give the intervals shot a go... I also seem to do badly on rolling terrain i.e. going from high inertia to low inertia situations quickly, so maybe this will help.

I know a few roads which are lumpy i.e. up/down/up/down, so maybe if I select a gear and just ride the road that would do something similar i.e.. low cadence up the hills, spinning down them.

I should add, I am focused on TT'ing

imposter2.0

MarkAshton wrote:

I suspect its not the same for everyone by a long shot. I am saying I can't SUSTAIN as much POWER into the wind on a flat piece of road compared to the same flat piece of road with a tailwind for the same duration.

There must be a limiting factor which limits me...

You've got a power meter then?

MarkAshton

Imposter wrote:

MarkAshton wrote:

I suspect its not the same for everyone by a long shot. I am saying I can't SUSTAIN as much POWER into the wind on a flat piece of road compared to the same flat piece of road with a tailwind for the same duration.

There must be a limiting factor which limits me...

You've got a power meter then?

You sound surprised

danlikesbikes

MarkAshton wrote:

Ill give the intervals shot a go... I also seem to do badly on rolling terrain i.e. going from high inertia to low inertia situations quickly, so maybe this will help.

I know a few roads which are lumpy i.e. up/down/up/down, so maybe if I select a gear and just ride the road that would do something similar i.e.. low cadence up the hills, spinning down them.

I should add, I am focused on TT'ing

If you struggle finding a good section look to do a small loop or a single hill, ride the hill hard in big bear at lower cadence and use the return as recovery. Will work slightly different to an interval but hill doing hill repeats is another way to go if you have the terrain &/or good route you can use.

Even better if you can do both sessions but understand if can be hard to fit it all in, but your'll see better gains by training your weakness's plus your overall fitness will not suffer.

imposter2.0

MarkAshton wrote:

Imposter wrote:

MarkAshton wrote:

I suspect its not the same for everyone by a long shot. I am saying I can't SUSTAIN as much POWER into the wind on a flat piece of road compared to the same flat piece of road with a tailwind for the same duration.

There must be a limiting factor which limits me...

You've got a power meter then?

You sound surprised

So we're talking about a discrepancy then, rather than a fitness issue. If your power is down when riding into the wind and you say the problem is NOT gearing related, then is your PM calibration at fault?

Tom Dean

Interesting - not sure what is happening, but I don't see the logic of doing big gear work to solve this. Gearing vs cadence is not the problem is it?

-it's more like the OP's perception of effort is higher at low speeds?

jibberjim

Imposter wrote:

So we're talking about a discrepancy then, rather than a fitness issue. If your power is down when riding into the wind and you say the problem is NOT gearing related, then is your PM calibration at fault?

No, it's to do with the low inertia situation... Pedalling style is not the same, muscle activation is different in different situations.

I'm guessing the OP has a real problem when cycling uphill at a cadence below his preferred too - ie can put out 350watts up an 8% hill at 90rpm but only 300watts up the same hill if he tries at 60rpm. Other riders will be the complete opposite, and it's not an artifact of the power meter, or anything, but revealing of an actual physiological difference.

As noted you probably can train it to some extent to overcome the weakness if you particularly want to.

danlikesbikes

Tom Dean wrote:

Interesting - not sure what is happening, but I don't see the logic of doing big gear work to solve this. Gearing vs cadence is not the problem is it?

-it's more like the OP's perception of effort is higher at low speeds?

Either way still think it would help.

If its perception leading to none confidence in riding this style then practice will/should make it like second nature. Leading to less apprehension and building confidence.

If its a genuine weakness then training this out to make less of an issue.

Above is my own opinion though & others may and will vary, not saying one is right and one is wrong either way

Tom Dean

I'm not saying this kind of work is not useful, it's definitely worth being comfortable across a good range of cadence, but OP doesn't have a problem with this in tailwinds, why would a *high gear lead to more power in this specific situation?

Maybe there is some difference in position that is causing this? Is this on road or TT bike? You could do some testing on the turbo and see if you get the same effect.

*edited

danlikesbikes

If the OP has a weakness either through not being used to/liking/having confidence to put down his power in bigger gears practicing putting down what power he can put down through these gears could overcome a lot of these issues.

As I suggested earlier practicing getting good rhythm and making your action nice and smooth should/could also help.

jgsi

Must admit have never thought about using the word inertia with regards to cycling but then what do I know?

A rule of thumb but it has really stood the test of time..
a competent cyclist will have a large range of cadences to call upon as and when necessary... from as low as 50 to upwards of 130 plus.
You oughtta go and check out some Youth racing locally and see them spin on their rstricted gearings .. power loss not an issue ... and yes racing against a headwind is never a cause to call off a race.

(Perhaps My WattBike will be along soon to soothe your fears with words of learn how to pedal smoothly and then you will start be a better cyclist like what he is and he has the sportive medals to prove it.. )

Tom Dean

Danlikesbikes wrote:

If the OP has a weakness either through not being used to/liking/having confidence to put down his power in bigger gears practicing putting down what power he can put down through these gears could overcome a lot of these issues.

As I suggested earlier practicing getting good rhythm and making your action nice and smooth should/could also help.

Sorry if I misunderstand, but that's not how I'm reading the OP's issue. If you look at what he wrote, you could equally advise working on high cadence at high power - both may be good advice in general, but they are not specific to the problem.

MarkAshton

Some good advice.

I think Jim hit the nail on the head. I also think its a confidence/liking thing. I seem to put a mental block in such situations and probably shy away from them if Im honest.

I can put out good 5 min power for my weight, but like Jim says, put me on a very steep hill at low cadences, and I shy away again.

I also think I don't deal with the lactate very well that seems to come on much quicker when I push big gears as opposed to spinning.

amaferanga

For these situations where your power is down, how much time do you spend riding that way compared to your preferred way where you consider your power output to be normal? Just how much is your power down? A few percent or several percent or more? What are you measuring power with anyway?