My first 2x 20, does it look right?

BeauMaximus

I have searched the topic on here and there seems to be no consensus about how hard/what intensity/HR it should be done at.

The link below is my first attempt on strava, would those who feel they know about these sessions mind taking a quick look and advise if they think I have done it too hard, too easy, cadence wrong etc.

http://app.strava.com/activities/45632397

I have just starting road/crit racing this year after a first season of club TT's and sportives so am trying to actually train in a structured way.
I am aiming to do a 2x 20 and an intervals session during the week and a 50/60 mile ride at weekends as well as racing every few weeks.

My max HR on a bike is 205 and have been told my threshold HR should be around 191/2.

Thanks

gubber12345

BeauMaximus wrote:

I have searched the topic on here and there seems to be no consensus about how hard/what intensity/HR it should be done at.

The link below is my first attempt on strava, would those who feel they know about these sessions mind taking a quick look and advise if they think I have done it too hard, too easy, cadence wrong etc.

funny enough i was just searching for the same info on this subject i.e intensity,heart rate percentage etc....any help willl be much appreciated

Tom Dean

There is no right or wrong intensity, and HR figures are not the most reliable, but it looks like your are a bit below threshold which is a normal level for 2x20s. Try it a few times, maybe a bit harder and you will get a feel for the efforts and how well you recover from them.

GiantMike

Looks good to me but maybe it was a bit easy for you? I normally struggle on the second interval and mine's a lot peakier.

Here's an example of a 2x20 at the limit OUCH

Keep it up!

ut_och_cykla

When I do 2 x 20s I make sure they are steady even efforts (both the same output) and the second one should feel like a challenge the last ten minutes. Which means that the start of number one feels a bit too easy. HR can drift up a bit (due to heating or the very fact one is near /on threshold) so I use it only as a guide. I have a 7 minute rest inbetween each - which makes things mentally easier but might not really be necessary.

GiantMike

Sorry, forgot to ask. What are you using for intensity? I see Strava shows your speed, presumably from a cadence sensor?

Have you done a Max HR test or a 20 min power (speed) test?

Wrath Rob

The workout itself looks good. You hold a consistent speed through the interval and HR increases slowly over time, which BTW shows one of the limitations of HR based training if you rely on HR alone.

Whether this was done at the right intensity or not is hard to say but if your LTHR is 191 then you were definitely taking it too easy in both intervals. From experience of training with power, I would expect you to start below LTHR and then finish over LTHR. For example my last 2*20 I held a steady threshold power but exceeded LTHR 1/2 way through interval 1 and after 4 mins in interval 2. Like GiantMike, interval 2 was pretty unpleasant and the last 10 mins had SUFFERING written all over them.

Everyone is different but I would have thought that lactate threshold heart rate (LTHR) of 191 of a max of 205 would be a little high. Mine is 22bpm below my max (measured using a full VO2max test), but as I said, everyone is different. To estimate your LTHR, warm up properly, including one hard effort of 5 mins, recover and then do a 20 minute all out session. This should be harder than the threshold rides you did in your workout, by the end of the 20 mins you should be close to or at exhaustion. The average HR for that 20 mins is a reasonable approximation of your LTHR.

BeauMaximus

Thanks, I just remembered that I did a 20 min test lastNov which looking back, I see came out at HR 191.
That's probably where I got that figure from.
http://app.strava.com/activities/29464903

So it seems I did it too easy, which I suspected from being able to ramp it up quite a bit for the final 30 secs.
I don't have power, so to keep an even out put, I just put it in a gear and then adjusted my cadence to a level I felt I would be able to hold for the 2 sets, 91 in this case.

To go harder I can either go up a gear keeping same cadence or just raise the cadence, but i guess which is best depends on if there is an optimum cadence range for this type of session and what it is trying to achieve?
My understanding is that grinding a bigger gear will build strength in my leg muscles whereas a higher cadence in easier gear will do more for my overall cardio, but what is best for a 2x20?

Wrath Rob

For general riding the consensus is above 90 but below 100, so your probably good at 91. For hill climbing your cadence often falls below this, so if you're training for long hill climbs (thing the Alps, not most UK climbs!) then a lower cadence would better replicate that demand.

Your right to use cadence (or speed) as the measure to focus on. Many people make the mistake of doing this sort of session based solely on heart rate. If you look at Giant Mike's trace you can see why this would be wrong: you'd go off far to hard to get your heart rate to the right level, which would result in a much higher speed/power than desired; over time you'd have to decrease the speed/power to keep your HR in the right zone; first this would help by bringing you into the right zone; after a while though you'd drop out of the right zone and be working too gently to get the maximum benefits required.

Its this last bit that's key. We're all time constrained, so getting the most benefit out of a session is what we need. If you get in the right zone, you'll spend 40 mins doing quality work in a 2*20 using power or speed. Using heart rate, you'll likely spend less time in the right zone and therefore get less benefit for the same workout.