Improving efficiency in the drops

andyeb

I've noticed my heart rate consistently goes up by 1% when I switch from riding on the hoods to riding in the drops. It's the same on the turbo and on the road.

This is counter intuitive on the road - you'd expect the reduced air-resistance to cause a drop in heart rate surely?

The most logical explanation I can come up with is that I am simply less efficient when riding in the drops. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can address this weakness, other than riding in the drops more?

sloppyschleckonds

andyeb wrote:

The most logical explanation I can come up with is that I am simply less efficient when riding in the drops.

April Fool Lol

Herbsman

It's because you're bent down more, which folds all the blood vessels in your hips more, so the heart has to beat harder to push the blood through the reduced cross sectional area

andyeb

Herbsman wrote:

It's because you're bent down more, which folds all the blood vessels in your hips more, so the heart has to beat harder to push the blood through the reduced cross sectional area

Sounds reasonable - but doesn't this mean most people loose a large chunk of saved effort through reduced air resistance?

Above what speed is it a net win to be in the drops for most people? At the moment I tend to reach for the drops above 18 mph.

chrisvanderkaap

It's because you're bent down more, which folds all the blood vessels in your hips more, so the heart has to beat harder to push the blood through the reduced cross sectional area

i guess it's something similar to this explanation.

also lower heart rate does not equal higher efficiency at the same speed.

when in the drops one effectively uses different muscle groups than when on the tops or hoods.
It's about your oxygen intake and how much your heart has to push to maintain riding in that particular positon.
cycling efficiency is not just based on dry maths but often comes down to practice!

ric/rstsport

andyeb wrote:

I've noticed my heart rate consistently goes up by 1% when I switch from riding on the hoods to riding in the drops. It's the same on the turbo and on the road.

This is counter intuitive on the road - you'd expect the reduced air-resistance to cause a drop in heart rate surely?

The most logical explanation I can come up with is that I am simply less efficient when riding in the drops. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can address this weakness, other than riding in the drops more?

there would/could only be a drop in heart rate when you go on the drops if your power was reduced and speed was constant (i.e., you're more aerodynamic). However, the main issue is that heart rate means pretty much nothing - it's just how fast your heart is beating (cardiac output is the main thing you need to know, but this is the product of heart rate and stroke volume).

lastly, none of these are anything to do with efficiency. Efficiency requires you to know your power output (easy to measure with a power meter) and to know the volume and mixture of expired respiratory gases (this can easily be measured in a sports science laboratory). However, efficiency is pretty much over rated. in races or other performance measures we don't care about efficiency - we're solely interested in the rate of work being done or a skill measure or a combination of these (skill and power)

I wouldn't worry about it.

Ric

andyeb

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

andyeb wrote:

I've noticed my heart rate consistently goes up by 1% when I switch from riding on the hoods to riding in the drops. It's the same on the turbo and on the road.

This is counter intuitive on the road - you'd expect the reduced air-resistance to cause a drop in heart rate surely?

The most logical explanation I can come up with is that I am simply less efficient when riding in the drops. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can address this weakness, other than riding in the drops more?

there would/could only be a drop in heart rate when you go on the drops if your power was reduced and speed was constant (i.e., you're more aerodynamic). However, the main issue is that heart rate means pretty much nothing - it's just how fast your heart is beating (cardiac output is the main thing you need to know, but this is the product of heart rate and stroke volume).

lastly, none of these are anything to do with efficiency. Efficiency requires you to know your power output (easy to measure with a power meter) and to know the volume and mixture of expired respiratory gases (this can easily be measured in a sports science laboratory). However, efficiency is pretty much over rated. in races or other performance measures we don't care about efficiency - we're solely interested in the rate of work being done or a skill measure or a combination of these (skill and power)

I wouldn't worry about it.

Ric

Ric - thanks for the reply. The reason I'm interested in efficiency is I'm training for the RideLondon 100. I want to make sure my training is representative of what I want to do on the big day, during which I want to ride as fast and efficiently as possible - I will have a finite amount of time and energy to complete the course.

With this in mind, should I train more in the drops? I'm hoping to average between 17-18 mph on the day. I'll be riding a sportive bike, so the in-the-hoods position is more upright than some road bikes.

Zoomer37

andyeb wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

andyeb wrote:

I've noticed my heart rate consistently goes up by 1% when I switch from riding on the hoods to riding in the drops. It's the same on the turbo and on the road.

This is counter intuitive on the road - you'd expect the reduced air-resistance to cause a drop in heart rate surely?

The most logical explanation I can come up with is that I am simply less efficient when riding in the drops. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can address this weakness, other than riding in the drops more?

there would/could only be a drop in heart rate when you go on the drops if your power was reduced and speed was constant (i.e., you're more aerodynamic). However, the main issue is that heart rate means pretty much nothing - it's just how fast your heart is beating (cardiac output is the main thing you need to know, but this is the product of heart rate and stroke volume).

lastly, none of these are anything to do with efficiency. Efficiency requires you to know your power output (easy to measure with a power meter) and to know the volume and mixture of expired respiratory gases (this can easily be measured in a sports science laboratory). However, efficiency is pretty much over rated. in races or other performance measures we don't care about efficiency - we're solely interested in the rate of work being done or a skill measure or a combination of these (skill and power)

I wouldn't worry about it.

Ric

Ric - thanks for the reply. The reason I'm interested in efficiency is I'm training for the RideLondon 100. I want to make sure my training is representative of what I want to do on the big day, during which I want to ride as fast and efficiently as possible - I will have a finite amount of time and energy to complete the course.

With this in mind, should I train more in the drops? I'm hoping to average between 17-18 mph on the day. I'll be riding a sportive bike, so the in-the-hoods position is more upright than some road bikes.

Always good to spend some time riding in the drops each time your out to get the body used to riding in that position, but your focus should just be on improving your fitness more than anything else.

As for your sportive bike, no reason why you can't get in a good 'aero' position on the hoods. Drop your elbows down, keep them tucked in and go nuts.

ric/rstsport

andyeb wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

andyeb wrote:

I've noticed my heart rate consistently goes up by 1% when I switch from riding on the hoods to riding in the drops. It's the same on the turbo and on the road.

This is counter intuitive on the road - you'd expect the reduced air-resistance to cause a drop in heart rate surely?

The most logical explanation I can come up with is that I am simply less efficient when riding in the drops. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can address this weakness, other than riding in the drops more?

there would/could only be a drop in heart rate when you go on the drops if your power was reduced and speed was constant (i.e., you're more aerodynamic). However, the main issue is that heart rate means pretty much nothing - it's just how fast your heart is beating (cardiac output is the main thing you need to know, but this is the product of heart rate and stroke volume).

lastly, none of these are anything to do with efficiency. Efficiency requires you to know your power output (easy to measure with a power meter) and to know the volume and mixture of expired respiratory gases (this can easily be measured in a sports science laboratory). However, efficiency is pretty much over rated. in races or other performance measures we don't care about efficiency - we're solely interested in the rate of work being done or a skill measure or a combination of these (skill and power)

I wouldn't worry about it.

Ric

Ric - thanks for the reply. The reason I'm interested in efficiency is I'm training for the RideLondon 100. I want to make sure my training is representative of what I want to do on the big day, during which I want to ride as fast and efficiently as possible - I will have a finite amount of time and energy to complete the course.

With this in mind, should I train more in the drops? I'm hoping to average between 17-18 mph on the day. I'll be riding a sportive bike, so the in-the-hoods position is more upright than some road bikes.

the point i'm making is that efficiency isn't something you should worry about. what i *guess* you want to do is be as fit as possible so that you can ride as fast as possible without blowing up(?). none of those things are to do with efficiency.

Unless, you are anorexic or have some other similar affliction then you have *oodles* of energy that is available to you. You have more than enough energy to complete this (because even if you're as skinny mcskinny you still have sufficient 'fat' stores to complete this).

Without getting too technical (and hey it's easter! i need a bit of a break) the more unfit you are the more you expend muscle and liver glycogen (the body's carbohydrate stores). This is limited energy stores. However, as you get fitter, the body 'burns' more 'fat' at a given intensity than when it was less fit. Thus, you should concentrate on getting fitter (as an aside we can help with that). As you get fitter you'll be able to cycle faster, and for a longer period of time.

In answer to your last question you should cycle in various positions. so that you're used to them. it's unlikely you'll stay in one position that duration though.

HTH
Ric

GiantMike

andyeb wrote:

I've noticed my heart rate consistently goes up by 1% when I switch from riding on the hoods to riding in the drops.

What's that? 1 or 2 BPM? Is that a 1% rise for the same effort? What are you using to measure effort?

My HR goes up 5BPM when I reach for a water bottle.

chrisvanderkaap

GiantMike wrote:

What's that? 1 or 2 BPM? Is that a 1% rise for the same effort? What are you using to measure effort?

My HR goes up 5BPM when I reach for a water bottle.

I was just thinking !

alihisgreat

The answer is to not use the drops that often.

I tend to go for lower hoods rather than hitting the drops too often - I can ride as low and efficiently as is comfortable for 95% of my riding done in on the hoods.

If I want to get more aero I bend my elbows more... and only really hit the drops for sprinting, descending, and very hard riding.

Wrath Rob

I tried a test when I first got my power meter. Riding at 20mph on the hoods was around 220w. Switching to the drops reduced it to around 200w. Drafting a club mate reduced it to 180w, all on the same flat road, same direction. Not very scientific but interesting to see the affect.