Sportifs, dont get it!

chrisaonabike

Danlikesbikes wrote:

From what I have seen they are either more inexperienced riders who think it is acceptable and perhaps don't know any better or tend to be club type riders with experience who should know better but for some reason don't and think its acceptable.

Yes, and it applies to a lot of other areas of life too. Sadly, too many people are either arses, or too thick to be allowed out.

I'm in the category of "inexperienced and knows it" - I shall be doing my best to get round in one piece and keep out of everyone's way

danlikesbikes

Hope you enjoy it & the weather is good to you!

daddylonglegs

It took decades and an awful lot of effort for bike racing on open roads to become acceptable in this country. The police still aren't entirely happy about it, believing like most British people that roads are for cars. One reason the race licence system came into being was to develop a responsible attitude to the inherently dangerous sport of open-road bike racing and to demonstrate to the authorities this responsible attitude. It means that people who want to race and to apply and pay for a licence are forced to consider their decision. The route into racing is necessarily not that straightforward. The positive effect of this however is to make even a 4th Cat road race on open roads to be a mostly fairly controlled, tolerably skillful affair given the speeds and proximity to each other of the riders.

Sportifs began as sporty fun rides, but now more and more people are treating them as road-races, but without all the time-wasting hassle of licences and gaining boring things like skill, experience or even proper fitness. One day there will be a rash of almighty accidents, involving cars, horses, pedestrians, babies, dogs, owls, etc. The police will then notice that for a lot of people these sportifs are a bit more than just 'fun-rides'. That's when many police forces will use that as the perfect excuse to start banning and controlling them, possibly taking the opportunity to rope into the picture properly licensed road-races as well.

So, stupid riding in sportifs, often by dopes who think it's a race, could well be setting back the cause of cycling on British roads to the middle of the last century. Thanks guys.

charlie_potatoes

Daddylonglegs wrote:

. The police still aren't entirely happy about it, believing like most British people that roads are for cars.

I would like to get a bit more in depth knowledge of this.
Can you quote your source please DLL?

daddylonglegs

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Daddylonglegs wrote:

. The police still aren't entirely happy about it, believing like most British people that roads are for cars.

I would like to get a bit more in depth knowledge of this.
Can you quote your source please DLL?

Evenin' all Charlie. Well, if you mean the police not being happy about road-racing on open roads, I don't mean officially - so far, at least. I mean culturally amongst many officers within the force. In two races I have done we were lectured at the start by a motorcycle policeman who told us that he would end the race if he saw a single rider cross the central white line. In one race the copper spent the whole time riding beside the peleton along the central white lines, ready to stop the racing if he witnessed any infringement. Whenever the road narrowed the bunch was squeezed into a tighter and tighter space. Really dangerous! I think it demonstrated a hostile and ignorant rule-book attitude to bike-racing. I have also heard a policeman I used to know refer to bike racing on public roads as a menace.

I have a friend who organizes an annual sportif. They tell me the police are already starting to be less cooperative with these events.

About the more flippant remark that roads are for cars, I'm making the wild assumption that the great British public's view of cyclists may also exist within the police force. This is obviously just a guess...

Brakeless

Daddylonglegs wrote:

It took decades and an awful lot of effort for bike racing on open roads to become acceptable in this country. The police still aren't entirely happy about it, believing like most British people that roads are for cars. One reason the race licence system came into being was to develop a responsible attitude to the inherently dangerous sport of open-road bike racing and to demonstrate to the authorities this responsible attitude. It means that people who want to race and to apply and pay for a licence are forced to consider their decision. The route into racing is necessarily not that straightforward. The positive effect of this however is to make even a 4th Cat road race on open roads to be a mostly fairly controlled, tolerably skillful affair given the speeds and proximity to each other of the riders.

Sportifs began as sporty fun rides, but now more and more people are treating them as road-races, but without all the time-wasting hassle of licences and gaining boring things like skill, experience or even proper fitness. One day there will be a rash of almighty accidents, involving cars, horses, pedestrians, babies, dogs, owls, etc. The police will then notice that for a lot of people these sportifs are a bit more than just 'fun-rides'. That's when many police forces will use that as the perfect excuse to start banning and controlling them, possibly taking the opportunity to rope into the picture properly licensed road-races as well.

So, stupid riding in sportifs, often by dopes who think it's a race, could well be setting back the cause of cycling on British roads to the middle of the last century. Thanks guys.

This happens every day with cars being involved rather than bikes! Maybe the police will decide that cars on the road are bad and ban them as well. The reason Sportives are successful is because they are inclusive and accessible, unlike road racing which has too many people like you who think they are superior to every other form of cyclist and that racing is the only valid form of organised event. Like a previous poster has said racing has probably benefitted from Sportive riders moving into racing. Events at Hillingdon and Hog Hill are oversubscribed, The Northroad Hardriders TT attracted 120 entrants this year, a few years ago it was 40 odd! And your generalisation about Police is way off, I ride with a bunch of coppers almost weekly and they are far from Anti Cycling.

charlie_potatoes

Daddylonglegs wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Daddylonglegs wrote:

. The police still aren't entirely happy about it, believing like most British people that roads are for cars.

I would like to get a bit more in depth knowledge of this.
Can you quote your source please DLL?

Evenin' all Charlie. Well, if you mean the police not being happy about road-racing on open roads, I don't mean officially - so far, at least. I mean culturally amongst many officers within the force. In two races I have done we were lectured at the start by a motorcycle policeman who told us that he would end the race if he saw a single rider cross the central white line. In one race the copper spent the whole time riding beside the peloton along the central white lines, ready to stop the racing if he witnessed any infringement. Whenever the road narrowed the bunch was squeezed into a tighter and tighter space. Really dangerous! I think it demonstrated a hostile and ignorant rule-book attitude to bike-racing. I have also heard a policeman I used to know refer to bike racing on public roads as a menace.

I have a friend who organizes an annual sportif. They tell me the police are already starting to be less cooperative with these events.

About the more flippant remark that roads are for cars, I'm making the wild assumption that the great British public's view of cyclists may also exist within the police force. This is obviously just a guess...

I take your points but I have seen pelotons spread across the entire road going round blind bends. I have also seen litter being thrown.
I think that there are elements that could be addressed in most types of cycling not just sportive riders.

daddylonglegs

Brakeless wrote:

Daddylonglegs wrote:

It took decades and an awful lot of effort for bike racing on open roads to become acceptable in this country. The police still aren't entirely happy about it, believing like most British people that roads are for cars. One reason the race licence system came into being was to develop a responsible attitude to the inherently dangerous sport of open-road bike racing and to demonstrate to the authorities this responsible attitude. It means that people who want to race and to apply and pay for a licence are forced to consider their decision. The route into racing is necessarily not that straightforward. The positive effect of this however is to make even a 4th Cat road race on open roads to be a mostly fairly controlled, tolerably skillful affair given the speeds and proximity to each other of the riders.

Sportifs began as sporty fun rides, but now more and more people are treating them as road-races, but without all the time-wasting hassle of licences and gaining boring things like skill, experience or even proper fitness. One day there will be a rash of almighty accidents, involving cars, horses, pedestrians, babies, dogs, owls, etc. The police will then notice that for a lot of people these sportifs are a bit more than just 'fun-rides'. That's when many police forces will use that as the perfect excuse to start banning and controlling them, possibly taking the opportunity to rope into the picture properly licensed road-races as well.

So, stupid riding in sportifs, often by dopes who think it's a race, could well be setting back the cause of cycling on British roads to the middle of the last century. Thanks guys.

This happens every day with cars being involved rather than bikes! Maybe the police will decide that cars on the road are bad and ban them as well. The reason Sportives are successful is because they are inclusive and accessible, unlike road racing which has too many people like you who think they are superior to every other form of cyclist and that racing is the only valid form of organised event. Like a previous poster has said racing has probably benefitted from Sportive riders moving into racing. Events at Hillingdon and Hog Hill are oversubscribed, The Northroad Hardriders TT attracted 120 entrants this year, a few years ago it was 40 odd! And your generalisation about Police is way off, I ride with a bunch of coppers almost weekly and they are far from Anti Cycling.

Don't agree Brakeless. Rubbish driving and horrendous accidents are widely regarded as the price we pay for the freedom of having a car.

I do a lot of sportifs and I enjoy them. I don't regard them as an inferior form of cycling at all. They're just not races. What I'm trying to say (as you will see if you read it more carefully) is they are primarily 'fun-rides' and it's for that reason they are tolerated by the police. Racing anything on a public road is illegal if its not cleared by the police, organised by a recognized body and the riders are not licensed. If sportifs start to be seen as races and there are accidents, then the police, understandably, might start taking a dim view of them. I'm saying I've started to notice a lot of irresponsible, aggressive and bad riding creeping in, often from people who are behaving as if they are in a road race, which they are not.

daddylonglegs

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Daddylonglegs wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Daddylonglegs wrote:

. The police still aren't entirely happy about it, believing like most British people that roads are for cars.

I would like to get a bit more in depth knowledge of this.
Can you quote your source please DLL?

Evenin' all Charlie. Well, if you mean the police not being happy about road-racing on open roads, I don't mean officially - so far, at least. I mean culturally amongst many officers within the force. In two races I have done we were lectured at the start by a motorcycle policeman who told us that he would end the race if he saw a single rider cross the central white line. In one race the copper spent the whole time riding beside the peloton along the central white lines, ready to stop the racing if he witnessed any infringement. Whenever the road narrowed the bunch was squeezed into a tighter and tighter space. Really dangerous! I think it demonstrated a hostile and ignorant rule-book attitude to bike-racing. I have also heard a policeman I used to know refer to bike racing on public roads as a menace.

I have a friend who organizes an annual sportif. They tell me the police are already starting to be less cooperative with these events.

About the more flippant remark that roads are for cars, I'm making the wild assumption that the great British public's view of cyclists may also exist within the police force. This is obviously just a guess...

I take your points but I have seen pelotons spread across the entire road going round blind bends. I have also seen litter being thrown.
I think that there are elements that could be addressed in most types of cycling not just sportive riders.

It's true, but it is open-road racing and therefore it is dangerous. (hence the police aren't entirely happy about it). For obvious reasons the commisaires are usually fairly strict on riders spreading out across the road and come down on it fairly hard by identifying and disqualifying persistent offenders. On the other hand they always exercise discretion because sometimes it's just not safe to force riders to stay on the left. In the end much has to be left to the assumed skill and experience of the riders. Like I said before, taking out a licence implies, to the authorities at least, that you understand the risks and you will behave responsibly, even when it's not always true.

And about the litter: it's really pathetic. Honestly, the only reason they do it is because they see the pros doing it. It's like 9-year olds playing a football match, gobbing everywhere and throwing themselves on the floor screaming every five minutes.

mikebikemike

They're not for me personally because I am a miserable sod who likes to potter around on my own on routes of my chosing.
However, I can see how they work for lots of folks who enjoy the company, having a target, not worrying about navigation and possibly a bit of tech support if something on their bike goes "ping"

Fursty Ferret

Never met anyone who has claimed that a sportive is 'racing'.

daddylonglegs

Fursty Ferret wrote:

Never met anyone who has claimed that a sportive is 'racing'.

Me neither, but there is plenty of pseudo-racing behaviour: unpredictable 'switching', suddenly jumping out of the saddle and taking out the poor sod on their wheel... anxious glances to the side whenever someone drifts up alongside... Oh, and throwing energy bar wrappers and gel packets all over the place.

crapaudthepitbull

Fursty Ferret wrote:

Never met anyone who has claimed that a sportive is 'racing'.

I meet loads who say this. Dozens of my clients and even my boss who has been cycling 2 minutes claims to have been racing all last year when infact he has done a few "charity rides".
As for the whole closed road thing with certain Sportifs when they announced the one round Llangollen 2 years ago to be closed roads i just knew it wouldn't pan out and is quite flankly lethal! It gives riders a false sense of security and when they are hurtling down narrow Welsh lanes and an old boy in his tractor decides to ignore requests or simply doesn't realise whats going on then, well we can imagine the results.

Strith

Fursty Ferret wrote:

Never met anyone who has claimed that a sportive is 'racing'.

I've met a lot of riders who think/treat them like this. Two kinds

1. Riders who for whatever reason, do genuinely think they are races. These people are usually new to cycling, so an understandable mistake, whilst some are just a bit slow.

2. Riders who know exactly that they are not races yet insist on racing them or calling them races. I just don't see the point. Some of my friends do this but refuse to try proper racing. I just take piss out of them, and usualy get told to fuck off.

danlikesbikes

Strith wrote:

Fursty Ferret wrote:

Never met anyone who has claimed that a sportive is 'racing'.

I've met a lot of riders who think/treat them like this. Two kinds

1. Riders who for whatever reason, do genuinely think they are races. These people are usually new to cycling, so an understandable mistake, whilst some are just a bit slow.

2. Riders who know exactly that they are not races yet insist on racing them or calling them races. I just don't see the point. Some of my friends do this but refuse to try proper racing. I just take wee-wee out of them, and usualy get told to fark off.

^-^ Tend to agree as have met plenty of both groups, but at the same time plenty of people who just turn up for an organised ride & to enjoy the day

Strith

I'm not criticising the events, just noting my observations. I've done a few myself but not my cup of tea. The littering I've seen is very dissapointing though.

TakeTurns

It's a social get together. If you're unsocial, then yeah - not much point in you going.

Why pay to go to a nightclub to dance to music in a room with loads of people, when you could just do it at home?

Team4Luke

wish people would stop going on about their times in these when they have just sucked wheels in a fast group, apart from that I'm not bothered about them and will continue to ride free sportives everytime I go out with my club.

bigpikle

Nothing wrong with sportives although some behaviour from people riding them can be pretty poor, which is no different from people riding bikes any day of the week all over the country/world.

Getting to enjoy a well thought out route that takes you somewhere completely different to your normal roads, with perhaps some famous or challenging landmarks/hills/descents etc along the way makes for potentially a great day out doing what you enjoy. Having some refreshments laid out along the way can add to the enjoyment and ease the hassle of carrying or sourcing stuff on longer rides.

I do a few UK events each year and try and get to one big European event each year - Maratona, QBH etc. If you havent made one of those trips and enjoyed the atmosphere of one of the mass participation events then I highly recommend it.

Of course its not for everyone and I totally understand many people enjoy touring or quiet rides with mates or solo miles etc and thats fine, just as many enjoy the thrash and excitement of different forms of racing. I just dont see the need to question why one form of the sport is any more or less valid than another. Each to their own - thats the beauty.

cyclingsheep

[/quote]

cyclingsheep

Danlikesbikes wrote:

zardoz wrote:

Heard all this before when the running boom started in the 80's. "Serious" runners wouldn't do the mass participation races for exactly the same reasons and I can recall at my club people taking the pee out of people who did them "Why pay to run on roads....etc etc"
If people don't want to do Sportives then don't do them, its not compulsory you know! But don't knock them as an awful lot of people get a huge amount of enjoyment from them. For me planning to do some sportives gives me some targets to aim for and some purpose to my rides and I'm sure this is true of many others.
Alan

color=#FF0040]Yes but I was a junior runner myself in the 80's but mass participation races were still races however you looked at them so you were either in a big race or a small race. The general population can & still has the choice even if doing a fun run but they are still 'racing' if only themselves to obtain a time be it a personal best or a first time run for charity.

Whereas on a sportive the purpose is your paying someone to run an 'expedition' from A to B with no racing element but with an amount of support, direction, food/drinks stops that you could not easily do

[/color]

Personally am no fan of paying someone to let me ride on a public road that I could if I wanted to sort out myself & make sure that I know where I am going & would have to plan food/drinks possibly as a stop if over a long distance. I have no issues with people who do want to sign up and pay, each to their own I guess & if it gets money into our sport then great. But I do have issues with people 'thinking' or telling everyone they raced on the weekend when their efforts no matter how gallant were akin to a fun run.[/quote]



I'm sorry but how exactly is this any different to the London Marathon? A lot of people paying to run on free roads to get the best time they think they can or to just achieve the distance. That is mainly why people do sportive a in my experience. Call it a race if you want but there are still many people who walk (for many different reasons) and much like sportive riders just want to finish knowing they've given their best.

danlikesbikes

cyclingsheep wrote:

I'm sorry but how exactly is this any different to the London Marathon? A lot of people paying to run on free roads to get the best time they think they can or to just achieve the distance. That is mainly why people do sportive a in my experience. Call it a race if you want but there are still many people who walk (for many different reasons) and much like sportive riders just want to finish knowing they've given their best.

Sorry but not quite sure what your asking me or your point? I'm not trying to be our sound funny with you either just in case you think I am.

The london marathon is a race & people try to set the best time they can, if they are doing so for charity reasons which a large amount of the LM entrants do then all good and well to them, but a fair proportion are entering a marathon for the race element to either set a first or better their times over the distance.

If they wanted to do an running (or even walking) event with no timing to simply say that they can do the distance then they might be better suited to an expedition type event or a group walk to achieve their distance.

A sportive is & was designed as per my comment an organised ride from A B with support built in & rest stops for drinks/food. They are not in away way to be treated as a race & as said previously there are a fair number of entrants who through inexperience think a sportive is a race, or are experienced enough to know better but do so any way there are also people who join these events as a good way to get out and ride over a substantial distance with the support that these events give.

bigpikle

Danlikesbikes wrote:

cyclingsheep wrote:

I'm sorry but how exactly is this any different to the London Marathon? A lot of people paying to run on free roads to get the best time they think they can or to just achieve the distance. That is mainly why people do sportive a in my experience. Call it a race if you want but there are still many people who walk (for many different reasons) and much like sportive riders just want to finish knowing they've given their best.

Sorry but not quite sure what your asking me or your point? I'm not trying to be our sound funny with you either just in case you think I am.

The london marathon is a race & people try to set the best time they can, if they are doing so for charity reasons which a large amount of the LM entrants do then all good and well to them, but a fair proportion are entering a marathon for the race element to either set a first or better their times over the distance.

If they wanted to do an running (or even walking) event with no timing to simply say that they can do the distance then they might be better suited to an expedition type event or a group walk to achieve their distance.

A sportive is & was designed as per my comment an organised ride from A B with support built in & rest stops for drinks/food. They are not in away way to be treated as a race & as said previously there are a fair number of entrants who through inexperience think a sportive is a race, or are experienced enough to know better but do so any way there are also people who join these events as a good way to get out and ride over a substantial distance with the support that these events give.

Sorry, but this is just YOUR interpretation of a sportive.

There are <10 people in the world likely to win the London Marathon on the day, so the entire thing of people wanting to set their fastest times possible over a distance is just as relevant to a sportive with no prizes as it is to a major event like the London Marathon.

I ran half marathons and other events with the main intention of finishing in a target time I had set myself based on the course and distance. Nothing changes most of the time when I ride in a sportive - course profile and distance determine my goal time and I try to achieve or better it. Sometimes though I just ride simply to spend the day with cycling mates for the day or with clubmates etc.

People getting their knickers in a twist because somebody chooses to refer to an event as a 'race' just need to chill out a bit. The OED defines a 'race' as:

"a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course"

For many people riding sportives that IS exactly what they are doing even if the organisers dont give out prizes or have a podium at the end. I'd also like to know why you say sportives were designed as an 'organised ride from A to B etc etc' as you could just as easily suggest they are derived from the European cyclosportive (sportif...) scene where the vast majority of events ARE races with prizes etc. Probably the main reason organisers say these events aren't races is simply because of insurance and all the health and safety regs.

The whole discussion is frankly totally pointless anyway and just further reinforces the impression of many cyclists being elitist and up their own ar..s

danlikesbikes

Bigpikle wrote:

Sorry, but this is just YOUR interpretation of a sportive.

There are <10 people in the world likely to win the London Marathon on the day, so the entire thing of people wanting to set their fastest times possible over a distance is just as relevant to a sportive with no prizes as it is to a major event like the London Marathon.

I ran half marathons and other events with the main intention of finishing in a target time I had set myself based on the course and distance. Nothing changes most of the time when I ride in a sportive - course profile and distance determine my goal time and I try to achieve or better it. Sometimes though I just ride simply to spend the day with cycling mates for the day or with clubmates etc.

People getting their knickers in a twist because somebody chooses to refer to an event as a 'race' just need to chill out a bit. The OED defines a 'race' as:

"a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course"

For many people riding sportives that IS exactly what they are doing even if the organisers dont give out prizes or have a podium at the end. I'd also like to know why you say sportives were designed as an 'organised ride from A to B etc etc' as you could just as easily suggest they are derived from the European cyclosportive (sportif...) scene where the vast majority of events ARE races with prizes etc. Probably the main reason organisers say these events aren't races is simply because of insurance and all the health and safety regs.

The whole discussion is frankly totally pointless anyway and just further reinforces the impression of many cyclists being elitist and up their own ar..s

Your right it is just my interpretation & it this was discussed a while ago in the racing section of BR.

I'm not bothered either way & think its a good thing that sportives exist as they are certainly brining a lot of people into cycling.

As for why I said what I said about the design of a sportive a simple explanation as it was a comparison against a marathon. A marathon is without a doubt a race, with pace runners, pace start zones & whether you are racing for a top 10, your hour marker or charity you are still racing.

Whereas a sportive is & was brought about for a none competitive nature going from A to B with different events being not over a set standardised race distance.

Your right the Euro way of doing these types of event does confuse things but guess thats down to their historical set up & legal context in which they are set up. Which we do not have in the UK.

My concern is the number of riders in these events who treat them as a race - as for the number of these Vs the general entrants who are there for whatever their reasons, to do the distance, to ride with mates, to get out and get the support along the way they don't think they could etc who knows.

rodgers73

Danlikesbikes wrote:

rodgers73 wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

But I do have issues with people 'thinking' or telling everyone they raced on the weekend when their efforts no matter how gallant were akin to a fun run.

Why would you have an issue with this? People bullish*t about their "achievements" all the time. Its human nature. I've just come back from a week in Majorca and the amount of nonsense I heard from long term club members and ex racers was phenomenal. I lost track of how many of them who knew someone who was "best mates with Cav" etc etc.

If someone doing a sportif says he is "racing" and that upsets you then tackle him on it, rather than impotently pounding your keyboard 2 weeks later. Or perhaps just let it go and let the guy have his moment of invented macho glory, while also avoiding looking like a rather priggish nitpicker yourself.

Its not about the BS that people say, as that makes no difference to me personally. Yes I agree that people do the old fisherman talk of how big it was.

Plus I am not bothered about tackling anyone over what they said & think that you are perhaps thinking I am having a go at you or the OP which I was not & I was not impotently banging on a keyboard 2 weeks after, I was replying to a post of 10:01am at a time of 10:49am so yes I am now being a 'priggish nitpicker' as you got your facts wrong. The difference being I was replying with my opinion, which you are free to agree or disagree with, but don't start with the name calling we are all (I assume) grown ups on the BR forum.

My concern is with those people who partake in these events & treat them "races" with no concern for other road users either cyclists or vehicles which do no good for the image of cycling as a whole. Plus as these events are becoming more popular many of these pseudo racers are also very off putting to the local population who have to put up with the bottles, food wrappers, gel packets etc that are thrown into gardens, hedges & public spaces. Whilst the organisers do their best to tell people not to do so & there is a onus on them to clean up for longer distance events this is somewhat a lost cause.

I do agree that whilst away with club cyclists you will hear all the BS under the sun & it is best to leave them to their moment of glory & as above the same goes for the weekend warrior type who does either a fun run or a sportive ride.

Cycling has a long way to go to earn the respect of the 'you don't pay road tax & shouldn't be on the road' brigade & I don't pretend to know any of the answers to this. But no matter how much I like the idea of the expanse of cycling & sportive's being a good way to get people out on bikes I do genuinely worry about the attitude & therefore the external image that some participants of the events give out.

Fair enough, sorry if I was a bit rude. I was posting after a week of being surrounded by the opposite to the newby MAMIL types that are being discussed in this thread. Club riders who think anyone who gets into their sport is an idiot unless they do things the way they've done them over the last 15-20 years.

Cycling is clearly changing quite a lot and with the boom in numbers there's going to be changes in behaviour too. A club with 40 members is going to find it easy to put the one guy in the group who doesn't play by the rules in his place, but apply that same ratio of fools to an event with 2000 riders, most of whom won't see each other again any time soon after finishing and you're bound to get trouble. Plus there's no peer group or club structure surrounding it all to address these issues. You're highly unlikely to say to a stranger in August "hey, didn't I see you throw a gel wrapper on the floor during the Fred Whitton?!"

My issue though, is with what you define as "trouble". Littering? Yes. Riding a bit aggressively because you want to set a good time or beat your mate? Pretty harmless (to an extent). Riding in a sloppy fashion due to lack of experience in group riding? Comes with the territory really, unless they really ARE all over the road.

Complaining about ALL this sort of stuff is going a bit too far. You end up sounding too elitist. Picking on some of it is fine by me, but remember the territory you're on. It's not a club run and a big section of riders will be very new to group riding or cycling in general.

So, I'd probably be in favour of a bit more guidance being issued to riders pre-event. As most stuff is sent out via email these days it can't be that hard to put together a bit of a tutorial on Youtube and link it via the race pack. Maybe British Cycling could get Chris Boardman or someone similar to do a "sportive public information film" for organisers to distribute. Would seem to be a logical way to get better behaviour on the roads and show the police that organisers were doing what they can to stop any nonsense.

danlikesbikes

rodgers73 wrote:

Fair enough, sorry if I was a bit rude. I was posting after a week of being surrounded by the opposite to the newby MAMIL types that are being discussed in this thread. Club riders who think anyone who gets into their sport is an idiot unless they do things the way they've done them over the last 15-20 years.

Cycling is clearly changing quite a lot and with the boom in numbers there's going to be changes in behaviour too. A club with 40 members is going to find it easy to put the one guy in the group who doesn't play by the rules in his place, but apply that same ratio of fools to an event with 2000 riders, most of whom won't see each other again any time soon after finishing and you're bound to get trouble. Plus there's no peer group or club structure surrounding it all to address these issues. You're highly unlikely to say to a stranger in August "hey, didn't I see you throw a gel wrapper on the floor during the Fred Whitton?!"

My issue though, is with what you define as "trouble". Littering? Yes. Riding a bit aggressively because you want to set a good time or beat your mate? Pretty harmless (to an extent). Riding in a sloppy fashion due to lack of experience in group riding? Comes with the territory really, unless they really ARE all over the road.

Complaining about ALL this sort of stuff is going a bit too far. You end up sounding too elitist. Picking on some of it is fine by me, but remember the territory you're on. It's not a club run and a big section of riders will be very new to group riding or cycling in general.

So, I'd probably be in favour of a bit more guidance being issued to riders pre-event. As most stuff is sent out via email these days it can't be that hard to put together a bit of a tutorial on Youtube and link it via the race pack. Maybe British Cycling could get Chris Boardman or someone similar to do a "sportive public information film" for organisers to distribute. Would seem to be a logical way to get better behaviour on the roads and show the police that organisers were doing what they can to stop any nonsense.

No need to worry, understand what you mean about the old school attitude can be very off putting indeed.

Think pre-ride guidance is a good thing & most people will take it for what it is the only problem is if riders are going to be an a bit silly in their attitude then they will be that way no matter what.

As for trouble I do mean litter, not got an issue with anyone riding to go fast or slow as long as they do so safely. The other side to it is the image that this gives out is a few riders who make poor decisions giving cycling a bad image to the rest of us.

Really good idea the video part as for the most riders either experienced or not would take & use the info in the right manner. Some of the Goride events run by BC are really good for getting out and riding but also with qualified leaders who can teach skills to those looking to learn. Are more structured but less 'this is who we did it' than perhaps some club runs.

As for the management of the event is a tough one really as they are not a race in legal terms the police, commissar and organisers have a tough job. Its no different than road racing for cycling or triathlon though in that most people know & follow the rules & others unfortunately do not.

I partly agree with you about new people but you need to consider this is a general part of the BR zone. I always try and be nice whatever area of BR I am in and always try to put my point across wether it is to agree or not with others. But I always try and keep in as courteous as possible. Though try to cut out the 'banter' you find the the cake stop or BB sections & as plain, simple & helpful as possible in the beginners sections.

nunowoolmez

I did the Spring Onion ride the other day which is in Surrey, fairly crappy weather but still a good turnout. As i was riding along in the early stages & passed someone aguy behind me said "Sorry, am i allowed to pass you, i'm a newbie". This made me smile & if i hadn't of been giving it full gas i would of chuckled to myself too. Not laughing at him, it was just a funny thing to say, kinda sweet really. Anyway, i managed to say, "do what you want mate, it's not a race".

Clearly some riders new to sportives, or new to the sport are a bit in the dark about how things work or what the deal is. It was nice that he didn't wan't to cause offence, but i hope he didn't think he was in a 'race'.

At this point i just pulled away from him anyway.

For my tuppence worth, i don't think we should be creating any divisions between us cyclists, when we have to do battle enough with obnoxious motorists & the other unintelligent road users. At the end of the day, who actually really cares? Does it really matter that much? Also worth remembering that it is all just a matter of opinion!

binsted

Sportifs are not races but it is not difficult to see the cloudy area when organisers issue timing chips and then publish a list of names and times.

bernithebiker

binsted wrote:

Sportifs are not races but it is not difficult to see the cloudy area when organisers issue timing chips and then publish a list of names and times.

In France you cannot mention speeds or times AT ALL, otherwise, it's a race, and you then have a different kind of insurance and medical certificates (pain in the ass) all round.

Brakeless

At the end of our club run each week we always have a sprint for the same town sign. Maybe we should go to the police station and hand ourselves in! :roll: