Virtual Reality Trainers

philwint

I've been looking at the Tacx VR trainers, and am quite tempted.

It's not just this years unseasonable winter, I usually try to hit the turbo after work, as for a lot of the year the alternative is a dark and miserable road

Currently i play music loud to get me through the training session, but I do think these VR machines do look like an excellent way to motivate me.

So two questions:

1. Has anyone used them and what is your feedback
2. Are Tacx the only kid in town, or are there other options (pros/cons)

Thanks

mzm70

BKOOL have a fairly innovative solution, their trainers are about £400 and 3 monthly subscription levels, 10 euros is the most expensive I think and offers RLV. There are plans and the ability to join group rides etc

Mick

bisoner

philwint wrote:

I've been looking at the Tacx VR trainers, and am quite tempted.

It's not just this years unseasonable winter, I usually try to hit the turbo after work, as for a lot of the year the alternative is a dark and miserable road

Currently i play music loud to get me through the training session, but I do think these VR machines do look like an excellent way to motivate me.

So two questions:

1. Has anyone used them and what is your feedback
2. Are Tacx the only kid in town, or are there other options (pros/cons)

Thanks

Phil

I've got a Tacx Bushido and the TTS software. Overall, it's impressive. I'm unlikely to get out to Europe to have a crack at the major Cols so thought this would be a great way to have a crack at the climbs.

Some pointers:
1) Read the Taxc forums before you order anything - I spent ages reading before finally making the purchase.
2) The TTS software (version 3 for me) can be buggy - but I don't get frustrated with it because I know what I was letting myself in for.
3) The resistance levels do a decent job of mimicing the actal gradients on the Bushido - though my friend reckons it's harder on the Bushido than on the actual roads. You can adjust your weight/settings to refine this though.
4) I ordered mine from Germany - much cheaper than UK prices at the time.
5) You need a decent PC to be able run RLV's with the TTS software. It can be choppy otherwise.
6) You can get RLV's from loads of places - not just from TACX - and they are much cheaper.

If you live near Basingstoke, you are more than welcome to come and see it in action.

Thanks

Brad

option_click

As above really, the Tacx trainers are pretty good at simulating anything except extreme gradients and the RLVs are a welcome distraction. When it works, that is...

In my experience, the software is riddled with bugs and support is non-existent. My iMagic has nearly departed via the window on several occasions. I had to do multiple re-installs (sequentially applying updates and manually installing/updating drivers).

In the first couple of weeks I spent more time buggering about with the software than riding. I daren't update or change anything now in case it farks up again.

philwint

thanks guys

It was reading issues about the tacx s/w that made me ask above about viable alternatives. Sounds like it is as buggy as I'd read

twotyred

TrainerRoad and some Sufferfest vids would be a cheaper option

stueys

Think it depends what you want it for. I started off on a Satori with trainerroad and sufferfest. I think trainerroad is excellent and you don't need anything else to provide a structured training programme with workouts. I find working through the plans as motivational as I need. Plus watching your output on the laptop works really well.

I bought a genius 2 months back purely to train for the etape. I think you can replicate climbs on a non-VR turbo by sitting at threashold but I don't find it as effective as a VR trainer. I've found it pretty good, I'm running rlv on tts 4 though my 2 year old work laptop with no performance problems at all. I've not found the software buggy, but it does annoy me that I have to detect my HRM every time. You can create very structured training programmes with the catalyst software but, to be honest, trainerroad is just as effective for interval training and I tend just to use that.

My summary would be that the VR trainers are worth it if you name trying to train for something that isn't easily replicated, I.e a long alpine climb. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered and would have been more than happy on a cheaper turbo and trainerroad/sufferfest. If I wasn't in a rush I would also wait for the Kickr to be launched in Europe, I think that looks very compelling.

option_click

A compromise might be to get a normal trainer, but use a Tacx (or other) RLV and play it back through your PC using the Tacx video player. It would also give you a bit more flexibility as VR trainers aren't much use when not plugged into the mains and connected to a PC.

It'll give you a similar experience - the only difference being that you are prompted to manually change the resistance at key points of the ride rather than the turbo doing it automatically. Obviously you'd need a turbo with a resistance controller on the handlebars!

http://www.tacx.com/en/products/software/video-player

APIII

I finally succumbed and bought a genius about 6 weeks ago. After some initial hardware issues (dealt with by Wiggle without any hassle), it's been almost problem free since. By almost, I mean on a couple of occasions the wireless dongle hasn't picked up the signal from the brake, but a quick restart of the brake unit and it's connected fine.
I love this thing. I bought it mainly to practive climbing as I go to the pyrenees a lot, so wanted to try and improve my ability to ride at near threshold for longer periods. It feels realistic to me, and I will be able to confirm one way or the other in May when I go back and ride the climbs for real. I'd read all about the various issues people have had and to be fair I think there was a genuine problem with the firmware that seems to have been resolved with the latest update. I suspect many problems however are down to pc specs. I run it on an i7 desktop with 6gb ram and 1gb graphics card which is probably the minimum you'd want if you intend to use VR. If you just stick to RLV and catalyst, I think you will be fine on a lower spec machine.
Some other points from me:
Longest ride on my old turbo was one hour. On the genius it's up to 3.
Power output reading on climbs has been fairly close and consistent with my SRM. Less so on flatter terrain.
Buy the Route des Grandes Alpes RLV if you can afford it, it is amazing.
Buy from a reputable UK seller such as Wiggle as any problems will be far easier to resolve rather than having to ship a turbo back to Germany. Wiggle price matched on mine.
This year they are filming the Raid pyrenean with new HD cams, so next winter's training should be sorted

sunburntknees

I used to have a Tacx Fortius but sold it recently. What I would say is that it is fine if you can leave it set up all the time, but I found it a bit of a faff having to come home from work and wire the thing up. Also, it's not portable and therefore no good if you want to use to warm up for races. The software was also pretty bad - but that may have improved, I don't know.

Personally, I didn't want to pay an extra £30 or whatever on some videos so I could pretend I was riding up a mountain. I can't imagine doing this for an hour or so of an evening is going to yield many training benefits, I reckon you are much better off doing intervals. I've not read any training manuals where they recommend sitting in front of the telly grinding it in a low gear.

So, it depends what you want to use it for really. If you want to pretend you're riding the big cols from the comfort of your living room, then fine. However, in my opinion, if you want structured training that is really going to yield results, then you're much better off with some Sufferfest vids, a Trainerroad sub and a turbo from their supported list. I don't work for either of these companies by the way, but I have seen positive results from using their products.

APIII

sunburntknees wrote:

Personally, I didn't want to pay an extra £30 or whatever on some videos so I could pretend I was riding up a mountain. I can't imagine doing this for an hour or so of an evening is going to yield many training benefits, I reckon you are much better off doing intervals. I've not read any training manuals where they recommend sitting in front of the telly grinding it in a low gear.

So, it depends what you want to use it for really. If you want to pretend you're riding the big cols from the comfort of your living room, then fine. However, in my opinion, if you want structured training that is really going to yield results, then you're much better off with some Sufferfest vids, a Trainerroad sub and a turbo from their supported list. I don't work for either of these companies by the way, but I have seen positive results from using their products.

Like most things you really need to understand what you're doing in order to get the most out of it. You can use the tacx for completely unstructured riding if you wish and I'm sure some people do exactly that, but just to clarify there are 4 main options for riding and training which I'll summarise briefly:

VIrtual reality - probably the most unstructured, you ride 'video game' courses either solo or against others online. Not something I've used a lot personally.
GPS rides - load up a ride from your garmin, or download one someone else has ridden from bikenet, or just create one online with mapmyride or similar. You follow the route on google maps or google earth. This can be good for structured training as you can create a route using a 5 minute or 20minute hill for example and use the multisession facility in the software to add a stretch of flat road for recovery and then loop it for your 4x5 or 2x20session.
RLV - ride a video route of some well known climbs or an endurance route. Again, you can use multisession to create a structured session, or just use the onscreen wattage to control your efforts as required. Some of the DVDs offer 'ergovideo' whereby you have to ride to a prescribed workout based on wattage, similar to trainerroad. If you go outside the required wattage, the number flashes red. These are very tough!
Catalyst - create sessions based on gradient, power, Hr, etc, again the onscreen graphic is similar to trainerroad. This is the most structured option IMO.

So, no need to grind away aimlessly