Cav vs Sagan

seanorawe

As a huuuuge admirer of Mark Cavendish and all out fan, I love watching him taunt people before burning them up in a sprint. But I have to say, im worried Sagan will be too much for him to compete with in this years TDF. I hope Cav is just taking his time before destroying all in his path at the tour, but im a bit anxious about the situ.

Bustacapp

Greipel will smash them both.

goonz

I was also thinking this, Cav did win a race already but Sagan seems to be excelling in these one day classics at the moment. Going to be a great season thats for sure.

chrisvanderkaap

I suppose it's a little early to jump to conclusions about who's the better sprinter head to head. Sagan is clearly aiming for 'more' during the classics while Cav, being in a team with Boonen, will have his train lined up for the grand tours.

Any examples yet of a fair all out duel between the two at roughly the same distance from the line?

Grill

Cav is definitely the better sprinter, but Sagan can actually climb (albeit not well, but a damn site better than Cav).

Crispyapp

In an out and out sprint I would put my money on Cav everytime. However if your talking green jersey then yes Sagan is clearly a massive threat as he can climb and will be able to get over the mountains to get the sprint points ahead of the pack. However saying this it begs the question will the GC allow him to do this now giving his previous yr and how's he's shown everyone he's a threat. He will never be a threat for GC but I don't believe the peloton will allow him to go as they did in recent yrs.

Rob Somerset

You got to admit that Sagan is a class act. The one handed wheelie over the finish line as he won the Gent-Wevelgem - magic. The guy is only 23 years old, it wont be long before he will be able to take Cav.

graeme_s-2

Although he has beaten Cav in a heads up sprint before, I don't think Sagan will ever manage this consistently (not until Cav starts to wane as a sprinter anyway). What Sagan has is far more versatility. He can compete with Cav in the sprints and then win races/stages that Cav can't even hope to contest.

With Cav on form for the Tour I pretty confident he'll win more sprint stages than Sagan.

bianchimoon

i think that, at a younger age, sagan is a far more astute rider than cav better able to read the road and use other teams to get in a better position. cav's head goes down too easily if his train's delayed. Like to see cav get green, but think Sagan will steal it

letap73

As far I am concerned both absolutely great but completely different riders, Sagan will not stop Cavendish winning many flat stages/race especially with support - which Cavendish now has. Cavendish will not compete in the lumpy stages/races which Sagan excels at. Sagan is more a threat to the likes of Gilbert.

alihisgreat

I may be wrong but isn't there a whole sub-forum for discussing issues like this?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=40002

:roll:

ugo.santalucia

Sagan is a very complete rider, there isn't a one day race that he cannot win on paper. Cavendish is a one trick pony and he has won all the races he can win already. I can't see him winning spring classics other than Milan-Sanremo

lostboysaint

Bustacapp wrote:

Greipel will smash them both.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Good one. At least you kept it slightly credible rather than suggesting it would be Farrar.

Frank the tank

I would really like to see Cav win the green jersey and go top of the all time tour stage wins rankings.

Said to my cycling pals last season Sagan will be a star of the future, he is young enough and certainly got the talent. He has all round ability and I think his level of success will be determined by the team he is in. Certainly if I was a Roman Abramovich I'd be after building a team around him.

hulla the hulla

well… I like Cav…. I also like Sagan…… but which is best ?

F I G H T !!!!!!!!

ugo.santalucia

hulla the hulla wrote:

well… I like Cav…. I also like Sagan…… but which is best ?

F I G H T !!!!!!!!

You can win a lot or you can win in style, I can't recall Cavendish winning in style, except maybe the sprint at the worlds, where he got out of nowhere with raw power to claim the jersey... that was a great sprint.... all the other victories were kind of a given... half of them were down to the lead out man, who gave him such a gap that he could have won himself.
Sagan has a few helpers along the way but he goes for the line alone....

greasedscotsman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Sagan is a very complete rider, there isn't a one day race that he cannot win on paper. Cavendish is a one trick pony and he has won all the races he can win already. I can't see him winning spring classics other than Milan-Sanremo

Can't see Sagan winning Liege or Lombardy, but agree with you about Cavendish.

ugo.santalucia

greasedscotsman wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Sagan is a very complete rider, there isn't a one day race that he cannot win on paper. Cavendish is a one trick pony and he has won all the races he can win already. I can't see him winning spring classics other than Milan-Sanremo

Can't see Sagan winning Liege or Lombardy, but agree with you about Cavendish.

I can see him winning Liege, Lombardy depends on the course and how the race is actually raced, I don't think he can stay with the best if they push 100% up the Sormano wall or the Ghisallo, but if they don't of if he gets a chance to catch them on the descent or soon after... I am not sure he can win the Fleche... there are punchier riders up that slope

greasedscotsman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I can see him winning Liege, Lombardy depends on the course and how the race is actually raced, I don't think he can stay with the best if they push 100% up the Sormano wall or the Ghisallo, but if they don't of if he gets a chance to catch them on the descent or soon after... I am not sure he can win the Fleche... there are punchier riders up that slope

Yeah, I though about Fleche just after I hit submit. Not sure about that one as well.

And the only race I can see Cavendish winning, that he hasn't won already is Paris Tours.

pride4ever

Sagan is an all rounder not a rocket like Cavendish. Sagan is extremely strong over distance and doesnt need to hide in the wheel to win a race/stage. Cavendish is a one trick pony albeit a massively fast one trick pony. Bad comparison this.

sloppyschleckonds

bigmat

Cav is faster in a fast finish. With a bit of a ramp at the end the gap narrows. On a proper uphill finish, Sagan will generally win.
Hard to say whether Sagan will improve his finishing speed. He's only 23 but his focus may be more on endurance to make the most of his versatility. I have a feeling that if he were to focus on being a bunch sprinter for the next couple of years he could make things very difficult.

Cav is a unique talent - from what I have heard based on "the numbers" he should be nowhere near as prolific as he is, but he has an unbelievable turn of pace and is brilliant at reading a finish. He's also better on the hills than people give him credit for (on a good day anyway), with some of his tour stage wins coming from a much depleted bunch. Can't believe people are suggesting that his stage wins aren't exciting either. His MSR win, his wins of Champs Elysees, and in particular that stage last year where he tore past LLS / Roche - exhilarating to watch how much faster than everyone else he is when he gets it right.

Crispyapp

pride4ever wrote:

Sagan is an all rounder not a rocket like Cavendish. Sagan is extremely strong over distance and doesnt need to hide in the wheel to win a race/stage. Cavendish is a one trick pony albeit a massively fast one trick pony. Bad comparison this.

I have to agree here tbh. The thread has started to change from Cav v Sagan to Cav as a sprinter and Sagan as a classics man. I think the comment above someone mentioned Sagan being Gilbert's main rival is true....

At the end of the day Cav and Sagan are totally different riders. Cavs a sprinter that's seeks shelter until the last 500 meters and Sagan is capable solo wins in the classics... If you want true comparisons then it should be the likes of Cav v greipel and Sagan v Gilbert...

greasedscotsman

Mark Cavendish = Mario Cipollini
Peter Sagan = Sean Kelly

thegreatdivide

greasedscotsman wrote:

Mark Cavendish = Mario Cipollini
Peter Sagan = Sean Kelly

Sagan will have to become really, really, really good to get on a par or better the boy from County Waterford. As in multiple GT points jersey winning and Classics smashing good. I know he's still young but I don't see that in him.

letap73

thegreatdivide wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Mark Cavendish = Mario Cipollini
Peter Sagan = Sean Kelly

Sagan will have to become really, really, really good to get on a par or better the boy from County Waterford. As in multiple GT points jersey winning and Classics smashing good. I know he's still young but I don't see that in him.

Kelly also won a GT, the Vuelta, in 1988.

goonz

Crispyapp wrote:

pride4ever wrote:

Sagan is an all rounder not a rocket like Cavendish. Sagan is extremely strong over distance and doesnt need to hide in the wheel to win a race/stage. Cavendish is a one trick pony albeit a massively fast one trick pony. Bad comparison this.

I have to agree here tbh. The thread has started to change from Cav v Sagan to Cav as a sprinter and Sagan as a classics man. I think the comment above someone mentioned Sagan being Gilbert's main rival is true....

At the end of the day Cav and Sagan are totally different riders. Cavs a sprinter that's seeks shelter until the last 500 meters and Sagan is capable solo wins in the classics... If you want true comparisons then it should be the likes of Cav v greipel and Sagan v Gilbert...

I agree with what you are saying but the OP imo is more directed towards who is likely to challenge Cav the most this season and on current form and last seasons form it is clearly Sagan. Greipel is good but clearly not good enough on current form to challenge consistently. The OP hasn't really claimed they are similar riders but if Sagan keeps up his good form he will threaten Cav in any race they compete in. Sagan can sprint, makes good use of the train, can climb much better than Cav and has more in the engine over a long distance without protection so of course he will threaten Cav's quest for the green jersey in GC at the same time threatening the likes of Gilbert too.

greasedscotsman

letap73 wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Mark Cavendish = Mario Cipollini
Peter Sagan = Sean Kelly

Sagan will have to become really, really, really good to get on a par or better the boy from County Waterford. As in multiple GT points jersey winning and Classics smashing good. I know he's still young but I don't see that in him.

Kelly also won a GT, the Vuelta, in 1988.

Maybe I should clarify, I don't think Peter Sagan will win exactly the same races that Sean Kelly won. Just that Sagan is a very similar rider to Kelly.

seanorawe

greasedscotsman wrote:

Maybe I should clarify, I don't think Peter Sagan will win exactly the same races that Sean Kelly won. Just that Sagan is a very similar rider to Kelly.

I agree with you, he is similar in that he can sprint, climb, pull etc and does not need a train to help him through the mountains.

letap73

seanorawe wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Maybe I should clarify, I don't think Peter Sagan will win exactly the same races that Sean Kelly won. Just that Sagan is a very similar rider to Kelly.

I agree with you, he is similar in that he can sprint, climb, pull etc and does not need a train to help him through the mountains.

Sagan reminds me more of Thor Hushovd - both very exciting racers.

pride4ever

thegreatdivide wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Mark Cavendish = Mario Cipollini
Peter Sagan = Sean Kelly

Sagan will have to become really, really, really good to get on a par or better the boy from County Waterford. As in multiple GT points jersey winning and Classics smashing good. I know he's still young but I don't see that in him.

Kelly already rates Sagan higher than himself so I'll take the word of the great man over yours.