£1200 and a Sora groupset...

ianwilliams

I was having a look at bikes at the weekend and came across the new Specialized Tarmac:

http://www.specializedconceptstore.co.u ... mac/Tarmac

It's a lovely frame, but for £1,200 you only get Sora. The new Sora, but still Sora.

I was under the impression that bikes were getting more affordable than ever before. It's going to be a great frame, but it still seems mad that you could get such a basic groupset for such a whacking amount of money.

Am I mad?

Grill

Yes. The frame is the most important part and getting a Tarmac that is in fact a fully rideable bike and not just a frameset for that price is a good deal.

anthdci

I agree, I wouldn't be happy with anything less than 105 for £1000+ I know you pay for better frames, but still.

Gabbo

No. No you are not mad.

In my opinion Specialized are bad value for money. The Tarmacs do not exactly have an aggressive geometry either due to their huge headtubes. I think it's madness to pay £1200 for Sora, I really do.

If you want a Tarmac, wait until August/Sept when the prices become slashed. Some good deals to be had.

Just to note - that Sora will easily weigh over 9kg, considering the Sport (with 105 groupo) weighs 8.7kg. A Triban 3 weighs 10.5kg and costs four times less. Sora is also 9-speed. Personally at £1200 I would be looking 2nd hand, or maybe buy a decent alu bike.

Grill

Sounds like no one but me has ridden a Tarmac...

nochekmate

To the OP

Whoever gave you the impression that bikes are becoming ever more affordable?

anthdci

Grill wrote:

Sounds like no one but me has ridden a Tarmac...

No I haven't, but it sounds comparable to fitting a porsche with budget remould tyres... your better off with a cheaper car but with proper tyres.

ianwilliams

nochekmate wrote:

To the OP

Whoever gave you the impression that bikes are becoming ever more affordable?

Its just something I see written in magazines from time to time.

Is the tarmac frame that good? To counterbalance the sora yet still be a decent bike for that price, it would have to be an astonishing frame.

Camcycle1974

It's a good frame as it is made by Giant!

pitchshifter

£1200 for a Tarmac? Bargain!

How about £6500 for an allez!

http://www.specializedconceptstore.co.u ... spx?id=786

dwanes

Don't know why people are getting so upperty about it being a 'Sora bike'?

The only Sora bits on it are the shifters and derailleur.

Every other component on there is not Sora and is what is expected on a reputable bike at this price.

Plus these 2013 Sora shifters and derailleurs work very well.

Grill

Wow. Some seriously skewed views on here when a groupset is changed. This bike exists for those that want a quality frame that would normally be out of there reach. Not everyone can just buy a better bike, many have to do it piece by piece, so in effect by offering the Tarmac with Sora it allows for a consumer to "punch above their weight" by obtaining the most crucial part of a bike (the frame) with a groupset that's still solid and can be upgraded later on.

Look at it this way:
Specialized Tarmac:
Sora - £1200
105 - £1500/£1800
Ultegra - £2500

Cannondale SuperSix
Tiagra - £1599
105 - £1899
Ultegra - £2699

Scott CR1
Tiagra/105 - £1599
105 - £1899
Ultegra - £2699

As you can see pricing is in line with the competition. I bet if this groupset said "Tiagra" on it there wouldn't be much discussion, but seeing as it is in fact last year's Tiagra I fail to see the problem. Finding a decent carbon frameset for under £1500 is rare. Rarer still is when it comes as a whole bike.

metronome

anthdci wrote:

Grill wrote:

Sounds like no one but me has ridden a Tarmac...

No I haven't, but it sounds comparable to fitting a porsche with budget remould tyres... your better off with a cheaper car but with proper tyres.

Better off getting a porsche and replacing the budget tyres for something better when they're worn

Gabbo

Grill wrote:

Sounds like no one but me has ridden a Tarmac...

And me!

Actually I had one. Actually a good improvement in terms of comfort when compared to the Allez, but the larger the bike, the more of a Roubaix it is. I know, may sound rather irrelevant to some.

Weight isn't everything but that £1200 Sora will probably weigh more than a few alu bikes out there.

the playing mantis

weight is irrelevent to amateurs. just lose some weight off your guts and have a turd before you go out if your that bothered.

thegibdog

Grill wrote:

I bet if this groupset said "Tiagra" on it there wouldn't be much discussion, but seeing as it is in fact last year's Tiagra I fail to see the problem.

Indeed. And wasn't 9 speed Tiagra very similar to the old 105 5600 series?

Sora. Is. Just. A. Name.

Gabbo

thegibdog wrote:

Grill wrote:

I bet if this groupset said "Tiagra" on it there wouldn't be much discussion, but seeing as it is in fact last year's Tiagra I fail to see the problem.

Indeed. And wasn't 9 speed Tiagra very similar to the old 105 5600 series?

Sora. Is. Just. A. Name.

Names, bike/component weight, lateral stiffness, vertical compliance - people are bought by these lines. Add in some wheels which have Cosmic printed around the rim and people start going crazy.

I'm tired

Gabbo

I'm guilty of falling into these traps though. A study was done to show the importance of bike weight. Importance? Little importance.. negligible .. I kid you not

Omar Little

Not many bikes these days have a carbon frame at that sort of price point so i dont really see why its being singled out as being bad value

Gabbo

Omar Little wrote:

Not many bikes these days have a carbon frame at that sort of price point so i dont really see why its being singled out as being bad value

It's just the ignorant and bizarre thought that you'd have a Tarmac equipped with a Sora grouppo. Of course, as Grill previously said it's basically Tiagra, which was basically 105.

ianwilliams

Gabbo wrote:

It's just the ignorant and bizarre thought that you'd have a Tarmac equipped with a Sora grouppo.

Yeah, it is ignorant. That's why I asked. Interesting thoughts here.

So then, how good is 2013 sora?

Coach H

Camcycle1974 wrote:

It's a good frame as it is made by Giant!

Are you sure? Specialized frames used to be made by Merida.

junglist_matty

Or you could get full Ultegra, 7.35kg alu road bike that's better than most carbons and pay £1200 for it if you get a canyon ....Even better value!

jordan_217

I'd personally try to get the extra money and go for 105 from the start. That's if you have your heart set on a Tarmac.

I think the bike is overpriced for the spec but maybe Specialized have already taken into consideration that the Claris goupset will be available next year and the bike would seem better value with Sora not being the entry level Shimano groupset anymore? (that's if the 2014 pricing/spec doesn't alter too much).

Grill

Sora has never been the entry level groupset, 2300 is. You say this is overpriced, but you're still not taking the frame into account. If you bought this Tarmac as parts and built it, it would cost you much more.

jordan_217

Grill wrote:

Sora has never been the entry level groupset, 2300 is. You say this is overpriced, but you're still not taking the frame into account. If you bought this Tarmac as parts and built it, it would cost you much more.

I meant full groupset, 2300 doesn't comprise of a full groupset in the same sense as Sora, Tiagra, etc does. It's a bit of a hotch potch.

I do see your point Grill but you could probably say that of most bikes. Look at the Ribble, Canyon, Rose and Co. You can get a Ultegra equipped bike for £1200 when you consider the price of the frame and the groupset alone you're basically getting the wheels and finishing kit for free. I'm not disputing the quality of the frame as I've no personal experience of it.

I would say the 105 represents better value in the sense that you're paying £300 more for the bike and you can't buy a 105 groupset for less than £400 and I rate 105 as the best £:performance groupset Shimano offer so personally think it would make the bike a much better proposition.

ianwilliams

Grill wrote:

Sora has never been the entry level groupset, 2300 is. You say this is overpriced, but you're still not taking the frame into account. If you bought this Tarmac as parts and built it, it would cost you much more.

Hi Grill,

Your point of view is exactly what I was hoping for in this thread.

What is so good about the Tarmac frame? When you look at say, the Canyon Ultimate AL, the frame is as light/lighter and has been ridden in the pro peloton as recently as 2011.

What is so good about the Tarmac frame to justify the lower-spec finishing kit etc at the same price?

NB. I realise there's other business factors that make the Canyon more affordable. I'm asking because I'm interested in the deal. Investing in the best frame makes perfect sense to me, but if you minus the finishing kit costs off the total bike price the Tarmac frame should cost much more.

rolf_f

Grill wrote:

If you bought this Tarmac as parts and built it, it would cost you much more.

But what bike doesn't this apply to (except for those built to bespoke spec)? But yes, I tend to think that the exact order of the lettering printed on the components doesn't actually necessarily have any impact on the riding experience. I think the only real objections to the Sora labels are cafe stop kudos and resale value neither of which should be a consideration when buying at that level.

Grill

ianwilliams wrote:

Grill wrote:

Sora has never been the entry level groupset, 2300 is. You say this is overpriced, but you're still not taking the frame into account. If you bought this Tarmac as parts and built it, it would cost you much more.

Hi Grill,

Your point of view is exactly what I was hoping for in this thread.

What is so good about the Tarmac frame? When you look at say, the Canyon Ultimate AL, the frame is as light/lighter and has been ridden in the pro peloton as recently as 2011.

What is so good about the Tarmac frame to justify the lower-spec finishing kit etc at the same price?

NB. I realise there's other business factors that make the Canyon more affordable. I'm asking because I'm interested in the deal. Investing in the best frame makes perfect sense to me, but if you minus the finishing kit costs off the total bike price the Tarmac frame should cost much more.

Apples to oranges. AL frames just don't have the same BB stiffness as good carbon frames. Plus there's always an element of intangibility with a good frame. It's comfy, responsive, stiff, and just feels right. It's not quite as lively as the SL4 or S-Works, but for the money you can hardly complain. I'm not surprised that people get so hung up with groupsets or finishing kit, but it's the easiest thing to change. None of my bikes are stock as I like to customize them for my tastes.

I prefer a good frame with a gruppo attached, not a good gruppo with a frame attached.

ianwilliams

Grill wrote:

Apples to oranges. AL frames just don't have the same BB stiffness as good carbon frames. Plus there's always an element of intangibility with a good frame. It's comfy, responsive, stiff, and just feels right. It's not quite as lively as the SL4 or S-Works, but for the money you can hardly complain. I'm not surprised that people get so hung up with groupsets or finishing kit, but it's the easiest thing to change. None of my bikes are stock as I like to customize them for my tastes.

I prefer a good frame with a gruppo attached, not a good gruppo with a frame attached.

Cheers. I will try to get to try one out. I think the LBS has one in.

I try to relate bikes to guitars a bit, purely because I know a lot more about guitars. And yes, the body of the guitar is, 9 times out of 10, the thing to invest the money in. The rest can be upgraded.

I think my mind just jumped a bit at Sora - purely because my head is still stuck in the idea that its 'that one with the thumbshifters'.

Something to think about anyway. I like customising stuff, but sometimes I like to just have it ready, off-the-peg.

alihisgreat

Gabbo wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

Not many bikes these days have a carbon frame at that sort of price point so i dont really see why its being singled out as being bad value

It's just the ignorant and bizarre thought that you'd have a Tarmac equipped with a Sora grouppo. Of course, as Grill previously said it's basically Tiagra, which was basically 105.

What's got you do worked up?!

No one is forcing you to buy the bloody thing are they? its just there for people who want that particular frame and spec.

I think your comments are "ignorant and bizarre"

especially the one RE: the large the frame the more roubaix it gets....

just buy a smaller frame with a longer stem? or buy the larger frame and slam a -17degree stem if you want an 'aggressive' geometry.. that's the way the specialized fit system works.. much like the Cervelo system.