Magura MT vs Hope Race Evo x2 vs Mini Mono vs...?

Mrtennis

So after buying some juicy ultimates a few weeks ago and having a few problems, and also having most people on here tell me how stupid I was for buying them, I fixed them up and decided to sell them on just in case they did have reoccuring problems. Not all bad though as I made a bit of money on them in the end.

So now I'm after another set of brakes. I've narrowed it down to the ones mentioned in the title but there's a few questions I have first before making a a final decision.

Hope X2 race evo
This one really is the one I'd go for except it's just too expensive, new or second hand.

Hope Mini Mono
I am a bit confused by this one. Am I right in thinking they don't make this one anymore? If so, when did they stop making it? It seems like it's as light as the x2 race evo pretty much, but is it as powerful? I have read reviews with people saying they have used both hope brakes in the Alps without any problems so this one might be a goer. Hope also seems to be very reliable and completely self serviceable and rebuildable.

Magura MT series
I was always on the look out for Magura Marta's but it seems this range seems to offer the same kind of thing but cheaper. What's the difference exactly between the MT and Marta series? The Marta series is still in production right? The MT8 seems to be the one that matches the X2 race evo price but I don't see any need in going for that one because apparently performance on the MT2 or MT4 are the same, just with a little weight gain. Again Magura seem to extremely reliable. I am not sure though if they are as serviceable as the Hopes which is a main question I have? One of the big strengths on the Hope is the feel and modulation, but I haven't found much on the MT's about this. Any info?

Anything else?
When I mentioned on here previously about buying some juicy ultimates everyone said go Shimani instead. There is a deal on for £65 at the moment for m785. Which I would go for but apparently the feel and modulation just isn't there on the Shimano's where it is on the Hope, and seems to be on the Magura. I am new to discs and far from a good rider so I don't want a brake that is going to throw me off the bike if I need an emergency stop. I have read also that if something goes wrong with a Shimano then it's new brake time, no servicing. My LBS told me the same. So I am effectively saying no to Shimano, even with the amazing £65 XT.
Formula seems to be another favourite. Although people report fewer reliabilty issues my LBS said in the ling run they have the same problems as the Avid's, so I'm pretty much going to stear clear of them too even though I had been on the look out for some Oro's.

So what are people's opinions on the Magura MT's (and marta), Hope mini mono and x2 race evo? Is there anything else I should look at (not shimano or formula)? Anyone tried all three and can recommend which is best?

supersonic

I'd get the MT4 - won a recent test in MBUK, is light, well modulated, good power and 5 year leak proof warranty. MT8 was not worth the extra.

Feel and modulation is about as good as it comes with Shimano though, not sure why you think otherwise. The servowave system is very good. The XTs are not light though.

Mrtennis

supersonic wrote:

I'd get the MT4 - won a recent test in MBUK, is light, well modulated, good power and 5 year leak proof warranty. MT8 was not worth the extra.

Feel and modulation is about as good as it comes with Shimano though, not sure why you think otherwise. The servowave system is very good. The XTs are not light though.

I suppose the modulation on the xt's is open for debate by the sound of it, which is why I want to probably stay clear. I have heard a lot of people say they're just on/off. And as I said I am far from experienced, just getting into it really. So I'm not going to expert and modulating them. If the magura is better in this aspect I don't see why to go with the xt's instead. As you say they are also heavy which I don't want.
From the mt's I think its either the 2 or 4. I would get the 2 but this isn't normally like me but I think they look absolutely rubbish. May pay the extra just for the looks of the 4's.
Are they reliable apart from the 5 year warranty? How about the hope's? Are the mini mono too old? Are the evo race x2 that much more powerful?

supersonic

Not of fan of Hope brakes, just think better all round performers can be had for less money.

mcnultycop

I love my MT2s; they came on my Canyon and there is absolutely no need to change them. The "feel" of them is brilliant.

Chunkers1980

Magura
Oro
Race evo
Or
None of them get some Shimano XTs

lawman

Whoever told you all that about Shimano has no idea what they are on about. The xt's are by far one of, if not the best modulated brakes I've ever tried, they have a lot of power which can catch people new to them out sometimes, but once you get used to it they are imo the best brakes out there and other than the occasional squeal, I've no problems on either of my sets for the past year and other sets of shimano brakes have been incredibly reliable, much more so than my old magura's which seemed to be bi-polar, some days they worked great, others they just refused to stop me.

The xt's also run rings around any hope brake I've tried, in fact I replaced to sets of hopes, one set of x2's and an older pair of mono minis with the xt's and they are so much better. All of the newer shimano brakes are superb and tbh, despite what reviews from the mags say, the deals you can get on shimano brakes along with the stunning performance means I wouldn't look for anything else. Shimano all the way.

Mrtennis

lawman wrote:

Whoever told you all that about Shimano has no idea what they are on about. The xt's are by far one of, if not the best modulated brakes I've ever tried, they have a lot of power which can catch people new to them out sometimes, but once you get used to it they are imo the best brakes out there and other than the occasional squeal, I've no problems on either of my sets for the past year and other sets of shimano brakes have been incredibly reliable, much more so than my old magura's which seemed to be bi-polar, some days they worked great, others they just refused to stop me.

The xt's also run rings around any hope brake I've tried, in fact I replaced to sets of hopes, one set of x2's and an older pair of mono minis with the xt's and they are so much better. All of the newer shimano brakes are superb and tbh, despite what reviews from the mags say, the deals you can get on shimano brakes along with the stunning performance means I wouldn't look for anything else. Shimano all the way.

Whoever told me is most of the user reviews you read on the internet. Most people say the XT is an on/off brake. While some people may get on with them, as I said previously I am not an experienced disc brake user, so when I find myself in an emergency stop position I don't want to find myself panicking and being thrown off the bike because this initial bite is too strong. The other brakes I have mentioned seem to be as powerful if not more (x2 evo race) than the xt, just are more gradual in applying their power. Certainly seems better to me. The X2 does unfortunately seem to be out of my budget though. So it looks like it's going to be either the MT2/4 or if someone has something good to say about the older Hope mini mono, or something else that hasn't been mentioned yet.

Mrtennis

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Magura
Oro
Race evo
Or
None of them get some Shimano XTs

What a surprise you chimed in with your shout for the XT's. I almost put in my original post for you to pipe down about your friggin Shimano. I have no doubt that all the brakes feel great, and I am guessing you have probably only used the XT (or SLX) and you are clearly impressed with them. I would like someone who can compare across the ones I've mentioned though. Rather than just act like a Shimano salesman thank you very much

Mrtennis

So then everyone else. What's the difference between the Marta's (which still seem to be in production) and the MT series? And how do the Hope Mini Monos compare to MT's, or even race evo X2's?

lawman

Magura afaik no longer produce the marta but people will still have stock of them. The main difference between them is the newer construction techniques used in the MT series which is a kind of composite molding, I'm not entirely sure on the process but it'll no doubt be covered on their website.

As I said I've owned in various forms all of the brakes you mentioned barring the MT series and the Xt's are the best, modulation is very good once used to the power of the brakes, they are far more powerful than my old x2's so for a given lever pull you get more power. Once you are used to this they are a very easy brake to modulate, the servowave mechanism is great and the lever shape of the shimanos is by far the best out there imo. They are a very very good brake, and I'd say modulation is as good as, if not better than the Hope's I previously owned. The majority of people on here would agree as these brake threads come up alot, and the usual answer is shimano.

All the reviews of shimano brakes on here comment on how well modulated they are -

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... e-12-45988

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... e-12-44702

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... s-12-45311

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... e-12-46008

Having not used the maguras you're specifically looking at I can't comment on them but Shimano out-perform hope in all areas, especially the older mono minis which aren't a patch on even deore brakes these days

Chunkers1980

Mrtennis wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Magura
Oro
Race evo
Or
None of them get some Shimano XTs

What a surprise you chimed in with your shout for the XT's. I almost put in my original post for you to pipe down about your friggin Shimano. I have no doubt that all the brakes feel great, and I am guessing you have probably only used the XT (or SLX) and you are clearly impressed with them. I would like someone who can compare across the ones I've mentioned though. Rather than just act like a Shimano salesman thank you very much

Clearly you did not get the underlying message then.

Your powers of deduction are very poor too.

If you have no doubt they all feel great just buy some brakes, the lightest one for your budget.

The Rookie

I had the chance to compare Avid X0's, Shimano XT and Magura MT8 on 3 bikes I demo'd in November last year.

X0's are pants (by comparison)
Magura's are really nice, lighter than the XT's and I did like them.
XT's just felt so right, the feel and modulation and power is just felt exactly as I expect - all very natural, better for me than the MT8's but not by much.

XT's can be found at much below RRP which if that could be taken into account would probably have seen them score better that they did in the test.

I've tried some slightly older Hope's (2009)on a friends bike, there was nothing wrong with them, but they just weren't as good as the mag or Shimano for feeling 'right', he has also had more than a few problems with them (yes Hopes backup is good) but they aren't really 'good enough' - look the dogs danglies though!

Magura or Shimano for me.....I'd take Shimano for the feel and also the ease maintenance, but wouldn't criticise anyone choosing Magura.

cooldad

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Mrtennis wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Magura
Oro
Race evo
Or
None of them get some Shimano XTs

What a surprise you chimed in with your shout for the XT's. I almost put in my original post for you to pipe down about your friggin Shimano. I have no doubt that all the brakes feel great, and I am guessing you have probably only used the XT (or SLX) and you are clearly impressed with them. I would like someone who can compare across the ones I've mentioned though. Rather than just act like a Shimano salesman thank you very much

Clearly you did not get the underlying message then.

Your powers of deduction are very poor too.

If you have no doubt they all feel great just buy some brakes, the lightest one for your budget.

Wasting your time.

Mrtennis wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

You can use what you've got.

You've bought some brakes which are approaching 10 years old in design.

Well I believe these are the from 2009. And most reviews seem to say they are an excellent brake, never mind if the design is almsot 10 years old as you say. As with EVERY SINGLE disc brake I've read about, there were some not positive reviews. But these ultimates and the Formula Oro's had the least "bad" reviews. And for £50 are you going to tell me I could have done better?

Oops.

I would recommend Shimano, but you don't want to hear that, so I won't.

Mrtennis

The Beginner wrote:

I had the chance to compare Avid X0's, Shimano XT and Magura MT8 on 3 bikes I demo'd in November last year.

X0's are pants (by comparison)
Magura's are really nice, lighter than the XT's and I did like them.
XT's just felt so right, the feel and modulation and power is just felt exactly as I expect - all very natural, better for me than the MT8's but not by much.

XT's can be found at much below RRP which if that could be taken into account would probably have seen them score better that they did in the test.

I've tried some slightly older Hope's (2009)on a friends bike, there was nothing wrong with them, but they just weren't as good as the mag or Shimano for feeling 'right', he has also had more than a few problems with them (yes Hopes backup is good) but they aren't really 'good enough' - look the dogs danglies though!

Magura or Shimano for me.....I'd take Shimano for the feel and also the ease maintenance, but wouldn't criticise anyone choosing Magura.

Thank you for giving me a review across the one's I was interested in and not just saying SHIMANO and nothing else like everyone else. As you say you didn't think there was much wrong with the Magura, even though you prefered the Shimano's slightly. But as I have tried to keep the weight down on my bike I think the Magura seems to be the way to go, and not the Hope (which is what I was actually trying to find out), so thank you for giving me a good answer !

The Rookie

I aim to please.......

Mrtennis

Anyone know much about reliability and serviceability of Magura's? They seem to be reliable from what I've read (Magura, Shimano and Hope seem to be the best in this area) but what about when things do go wrong? I haven't been able to find much but am I right in thinking you can't really service them yourself and parts are not easy to find (same as Shimano but not like Hope which seems to be the winner in this area)?

lawman

Jesus there's no pleasing some people is there! Why are you so set against against the Shimanos? I gave you a comparison between the brakes you are looking at and the shimanos perform just as well, if not better and are cheaper, whats the problem with that? You asked for advice so I gave you some. Neither of my hopes or Maguras have been as reliable as the shimanos and certain magura spare parts were hard to come by, I cracked a lever clamp and couldn't find a replacement lever so I had to scrap the brake. Shimano spares are much easier to come by as they are far more common. Performance may be similar but purely on price and spares availablity I'd sacrifice a few grams and go shimano.

cooldad

Magura service centre is a couple of guys sharing a bit of a warehouse. But they are very nice guys.
Number on Magura webbie.

Mrtennis

lawman wrote:

Jesus there's no pleasing some people is there! Why are you so set against against the Shimanos? I gave you a comparison between the brakes you are looking at and the shimanos perform just as well, if not better and are cheaper, whats the problem with that? You asked for advice so I gave you some. Neither of my hopes or Maguras have been as reliable as the shimanos and certain magura spare parts were hard to come by, I cracked a lever clamp and couldn't find a replacement lever so I had to scrap the brake. Shimano spares are much easier to come by as they are far more common. Performance may be similar but purely on price and spares availablity I'd sacrifice a few grams and go shimano.

Sorry wasn't annoyed with you! Your post was very helpful as far as the hope v shimano goes and the info that marta has actually been replaced by the MT. I am a bit confused now though by people saying parts are available for Shimano, as 99% of stuff I have read says it isn't, including my LBS. Do you mean parts as in new caliper or lever? Or are you saying other bits such as seals etc are available?

lawman

Mrtennis wrote:

lawman wrote:

Jesus there's no pleasing some people is there! Why are you so set against against the Shimanos? I gave you a comparison between the brakes you are looking at and the shimanos perform just as well, if not better and are cheaper, whats the problem with that? You asked for advice so I gave you some. Neither of my hopes or Maguras have been as reliable as the shimanos and certain magura spare parts were hard to come by, I cracked a lever clamp and couldn't find a replacement lever so I had to scrap the brake. Shimano spares are much easier to come by as they are far more common. Performance may be similar but purely on price and spares availablity I'd sacrifice a few grams and go shimano.

Sorry wasn't annoyed with you! Your post was very helpful as far as the hope v shimano goes and the info that marta has actually been replaced by the MT. I am a bit confused now though by people saying parts are available for Shimano, as 99% of stuff I have read says it isn't, including my LBS. Do you mean parts as in new caliper or lever? Or are you saying other bits such as seals etc are available?

My LBS can get pretty much any shimano spares if need be, and its only a small shop. As I say I've no problems with mine so haven't needed to get any spares, but I'm sure you'd have no problems if something were to go wrong, unlikely as it is.

Mrtennis

lawman wrote:

Mrtennis wrote:

lawman wrote:

Jesus there's no pleasing some people is there! Why are you so set against against the Shimanos? I gave you a comparison between the brakes you are looking at and the shimanos perform just as well, if not better and are cheaper, whats the problem with that? You asked for advice so I gave you some. Neither of my hopes or Maguras have been as reliable as the shimanos and certain magura spare parts were hard to come by, I cracked a lever clamp and couldn't find a replacement lever so I had to scrap the brake. Shimano spares are much easier to come by as they are far more common. Performance may be similar but purely on price and spares availablity I'd sacrifice a few grams and go shimano.

Sorry wasn't annoyed with you! Your post was very helpful as far as the hope v shimano goes and the info that marta has actually been replaced by the MT. I am a bit confused now though by people saying parts are available for Shimano, as 99% of stuff I have read says it isn't, including my LBS. Do you mean parts as in new caliper or lever? Or are you saying other bits such as seals etc are available?

My LBS can get pretty much any shimano spares if need be, and its only a small shop. As I say I've no problems with mine so haven't needed to get any spares, but I'm sure you'd have no problems if something were to go wrong, unlikely as it is.

This is very confusing. Where abouts are you? I am guessing in the UK? I went into Je James (if you're in the UK you'll know it, if not, it's one of the biggest shops/chains in the country) and that's where I was told parts can't be found and when a brake breaks, that's it, it goes in the bin. Good to hear that it seems you can get parts then. Maybe I should go to a shop and try out the Magura and the Shimano, even though I am still put off by the weight

Chunkers1980

I'm put off by this and other threads of yours.

EH_Rob

the best brakes for the money that are currently available are shimano. I don't worry too much about weight here, its all about performance. They're brakes for goodness sake.

if you're that bothered about weight go XTR, although its a waste of money in my view as they're about double the price of XTs.

hope brakes are pants. modulation is good but that is worthless without power. plus they're heavy.

by the sounds of it magura are perfectly adequate, if for whatever reason you can't bring yourself to buy shimano ones. ive never used magura so can't comment.

just get shimano and get on with your life.

Mrtennis

breaking news; bikeradar forum to be renamed shimanolovefest forum

EH_Rob

you asked what the best brakes were you clown.

lawman

Mrtennis wrote:

lawman wrote:

Mrtennis wrote:

lawman wrote:

Jesus there's no pleasing some people is there! Why are you so set against against the Shimanos? I gave you a comparison between the brakes you are looking at and the shimanos perform just as well, if not better and are cheaper, whats the problem with that? You asked for advice so I gave you some. Neither of my hopes or Maguras have been as reliable as the shimanos and certain magura spare parts were hard to come by, I cracked a lever clamp and couldn't find a replacement lever so I had to scrap the brake. Shimano spares are much easier to come by as they are far more common. Performance may be similar but purely on price and spares availablity I'd sacrifice a few grams and go shimano.

Sorry wasn't annoyed with you! Your post was very helpful as far as the hope v shimano goes and the info that marta has actually been replaced by the MT. I am a bit confused now though by people saying parts are available for Shimano, as 99% of stuff I have read says it isn't, including my LBS. Do you mean parts as in new caliper or lever? Or are you saying other bits such as seals etc are available?

My LBS can get pretty much any shimano spares if need be, and its only a small shop. As I say I've no problems with mine so haven't needed to get any spares, but I'm sure you'd have no problems if something were to go wrong, unlikely as it is.

This is very confusing. Where abouts are you? I am guessing in the UK? I went into Je James (if you're in the UK you'll know it, if not, it's one of the biggest shops/chains in the country) and that's where I was told parts can't be found and when a brake breaks, that's it, it goes in the bin. Good to hear that it seems you can get parts then. Maybe I should go to a shop and try out the Magura and the Shimano, even though I am still put off by the weight

Yeah I'm UK based, no idea why they'd tell you couldn't get spares :? For what its worth, a new caliper or lever for a shimano brake is pretty cheap anyway, a quick look on CRC and a magura lever blade alone costs as much as a whole new slx lever assembly. Try the shimanos and I guarantee you'll be blown away, theres a reason why we all love them so much, as I say imo for taking value out the equation they're the best out there and given how cheap they are too it really is no brainer imo

Mrtennis

EH_Rob wrote:

you asked what the best brakes were you clown.

To be honest it's perfectly possible that a forum can go that way. If a couple of people have shimano brakes and like them, they start recommending them to everyone else and so they go out and buy them. Then they like them too and all of a sudden everyone swears by them. But only a very few people might have experience with other brakes because they just went for the Shimano. Some people on here seem to have past experience with some brakes but not with the specific ones I was asking for (MT series) and so they can give some advice but I was asking about specific brakes. Someone has said the old Hope Mini Monos are nothing when compared to the XT's which is good advice. Another (the only person so far I think in this thread to have tried the MT) said there wasn't much difference between the two, he just slightly preferred the XT.
Where it has got irritating on here is that although I did ask for suggestions of other brakes to look at apart from what I had mentioned, I also said I wasn't interested in Shimano. When I searched on google about brakes there were posts on other forums where people said the same as me. They wanted advice on some brakes but weren't interested in Shimano. And they didn't get one reply about Shimano in the whole thread! Yet this one has been taken over by people talking about Shimano, and about 3 posts which have actually been useful to me

jairaj

Mrtennis wrote:

Whoever told me is most of the user reviews you read on the internet.

For what its worth, I never take any notice of these. People are far more likely to complain on the internet when a product is bad rather than when a product is good. Also a lot of time people don't install or maintain things properly and then complain when they stop working after a while.

I try and filter out opinions from facts. eg "item X is 20g heavier than manufacturer quoted figures" is a fact. Where as "item X feels heavier" could be an opinion.

Thewaylander

Thats ebcause people here are fairly forcible.

but it doesn't make them any less right, i have had avids, Formulae(i currently run these), hope, and shimano. I'd buy shimano though formulae are very good. If i had someone give me some hopes i'd sell them instantly and buy a decent brake as on the whole there bags of.... pretty but crap.

Mrtennis

Thewaylander wrote:

Thats ebcause people here are fairly forcible.

but it doesn't make them any less, i have avids, Formular(i currently run these), hope, and shimanoe. I'd buy shimano though formulae are very good. If i had someone give me some hopes i'd sell them instantly and buy a decent brake as on the whole there bags of.... pretty but crap.

Forcible? What do you mean?