Breathing from the belly,whats all that about.

elderone
elderone Posts: 1,410
edited March 2013 in Road beginners
I seen a utube clip of an aussie guy who likes banana,s and he said to aid cycling then breath from the belly.H e showed a clip of a rider doing this.What he didn,t explain was how you do it.Also is it a useful thing to learn for fun riders.
Any one know what he was on about.
Btw,when he said he likes bananas hes talking 30+ a day.
Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori
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Comments

  • pride4ever
    pride4ever Posts: 510
    Yeh hes on here, bit of a twonk.
    the deeper the section the deeper the pleasure.
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    pride4ever wrote:
    Yeh hes on here, bit of a twonk.
    It takes all kinds. I've watched several of his videos, and they're quite funny, some informative, some a bit 'out there'. Shame to knock people jut because they're a bit different.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    As soon as I read the title I knew it was Durianrider you were talking about.

    I think the point in the video is that you need to get air in very efficiently/effectively when climbing, to avoid oxygen deficit kicking in too soon.

    But yes belly breathing does sound odd.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    he's a bit of a preacher, doesn't get involved in giving advice, just tells you what he wants you to hear on bananas and veganism usually and goes away. Not to say his advice is no good, I just switch off as he usually posts the same info on a number of cycling forums
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Sorry gonna break out the Y word (don't let this make it a for/anti ranting thread though) Its a Yoga technique called diaphragmatic breathing.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    isnt that abdominal breathing, using your stomach/belly? and diaphragm breathing using your chest? or have i got it mixed up?
    :oops:
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    There are 2 types of diaphragm breathing. Diaphragm breathing where you use your belly and pull down and out & the other is called rib cage diaphragm breathing where you pull the abs tight to stop the belly coming out and use the ribs to suck out.

    Think abdominal may be another name for the latter suggesting you keep your abs tight and use the ribs?
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,861
    There are two ways to expand your chest cavity (i.e. breathe in): expand your rib cage (intercostal muscles) or expand your abdomen, using the main abdominal muscles. Using the abdominal muscles (which feels like breathing into your belly, as it makes that part of you expand) both gets more air into your lungs, and means you can expel the air with those strong muscles. The trouble with using your rib cage to breathe is that not only does that not inflate the lower part of your lungs fully, it actually decreases your abdominal capacity. Try an experiment: put your hand on your abdominals, and take a big breath in like a 10-year old would: shoulders raise and the chest expands - but your tummy will actually go inwards, restricting capacity down there.

    Now lie on your back, and take a big breath in with your hand resting on your abdominals, and you'll find you naturally breathe into your abdomen: your hand will go out. If you want to question my credentials: I get paid to breathe (or, more precisely, to breathe out through my trumpet, in a musical way), so breathing in the most efficient way makes the job easier.

    'Diaphragmatic breathing' is probably a misnomer, as you can't do much with your diaphragm, other than rely on it to stop your guts going out through your backside. It's your abdominal muscles that provide the power.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Musicians use the technique to have better control of their breath - as BT says - you have greater capacity if you breath in lower down. The way we were told was to put a hand on your chest and breath in without your hand moving - that way you're breathing in further down. Using the diaphragm to control the expulsion is far more controllable than the chest.

    most ppl don't use the full capacity of their lungs and as this is the way we get oxygen into our blood stream then you're missing out quite a bit if you don't use it - then you'll need to breath more frequently. I would think most ppl would benefit from a bit more abdominal breathing ...
  • Sorry but there are some slight mistakes with the above.

    this is probably the biggest misconception about breathing.
    It's your abdominal muscles that provide the power.
    This is wrong. The diaphragm supplies all the power of "abdominal breathing" the abdominal muscles will stabilise the lower rib cage as the diaphragm inflates the lungs but the abdominals do NOT inflate the lungs.
  • canny_lad
    canny_lad Posts: 329
    Dunno about breathing from the belly but for the last 10 miles of the Wiggle rut last year I was breathing out of my @rse!

    It's an interesting theory but could you maintain it when you're completely knackered?
  • elderone
    elderone Posts: 1,410
    Cheers lads,think that clears it up.Looks a lot to be thinking about on top of everything else involved with hills.
    Didn,t realise the bloke was on here and also its nice to see im not the only one trawling through youtube for anything cycling.
    kayakerchris,what type of kayaking you do.I did slalom for years in div1/prem as was.
    Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori
  • sev112
    sev112 Posts: 99
    B**** r, trumpet guy beat me to it

    Many may years ago, my trumpet teacher made me lay down on the school board room table(!!!!) and put three big books on my stomach and made me breathe in and outdoor half an hour lifting the books on breathing in

    Made a HUGE improvement to my trumpet playing, half marathons, sprinting, rugby playing,a nod judo which required very shirt bursts of power.

    I find it really useful on climbs now, keeps heart rate lower as well as you can take more air in easier, as well as being able to do so through your nose, hence keeping the flies out
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Canny lad wrote:

    It's an interesting theory but could you maintain it when you're completely knackered?
    If its ingrained into your way of breathing then it is entirely natural - so yes!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    Yeah, (proper) singers use the technique too. It allows them to sustain a long, controlled note. When a good opera singer breathes you won't see that big chest expansion and shoulder raise that amateur singers do when taking a deep breathe. I'm not sure that it is something that you can easily do on a bike though where you are breathing to get oxygen into the blood but possibly after a big effort it might help you get the breathing back under control and the heart rate back down. I know it's the most natural way to breathe (watch a baby and they will do it just as Brian explains) but I think when you are fighting for oxygen during activity it is instinctive to go for more, shallower breathes.
  • it is also recommended by physio's to help alleviate lower back pain.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    I played the trumpet for years so I just breath from my diaphragm pretty much all the time now. It just feels natural.
  • pink trumpet?
  • jane90
    jane90 Posts: 149
    My singing teacher used to demonstrate the technique by making us lie on the floor on our back and resting a football on the chest. The object was to breathe as deeply as we could whilst keeping the ball perfectly still.
  • elderone
    elderone Posts: 1,410
    jane90 wrote:
    My singing teacher used to demonstrate the technique by making us lie on the floor on our back and resting a football on the chest. The object was to breathe as deeply as we could whilst keeping the ball perfectly still.
    And did you manage it?Sounds like its not hokum then but not something easily attainable.So its on the maybe to do list. :D
    Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    It just needs a bit of thought ...
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    pink trumpet?

    Oboe's are pink.
  • Dezza
    Dezza Posts: 155
    I practice kendo and this is considered a very effective method of controlling breathing/drawing power from core muscles - its just bloody hard to master!
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,861
    Pross wrote:
    I'm not sure that it is something that you can easily do on a bike though where you are breathing to get oxygen into the blood but possibly after a big effort it might help you get the breathing back under control and the heart rate back down. I know it's the most natural way to breathe (watch a baby and they will do it just as Brian explains) but I think when you are fighting for oxygen during activity it is instinctive to go for more, shallower breathes.
    It is possible, though takes practice, and of course if you're on the drops you're 'pushing' the air down into the scrunched-over part of your body. I wonder if that's what gives Mark Cavendish this shape:

    4f87a1e79a799_Mark%20Cavendish.jpg
  • foggymike
    foggymike Posts: 862
    If you watch pro riders you see a lot of stomachs heaving in and out when they are working hard. I do find making myself breathing like this gives me a bit extra on steep climbs or when giving it the beans. I think I was limiting my oxygen intake by chest breathing before and going into oxygen debt earlier. Worth a go - it's free for a start!
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    foggymike wrote:
    If you watch pro riders you see a lot of stomachs heaving in and out when they are working hard.

    Ah but your then into another sort of question. Indurain was once the man with the largest lung capacity on record, but got called podgy (by some not so polite press & others) for his organs being pushed down due to his sizeable lungs.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    foggymike wrote:
    If you watch pro riders you see a lot of stomachs heaving in and out when they are working hard.

    Ah but your then into another sort of question. Indurain was once the man with the largest lung capacity on record, but got called podgy (by some not so polite press & others) for his organs being pushed down due to his sizeable lungs.

    Your diaphragm is at the bottom of your rib cage so it presses down on your other organs. I can inflate mine so that I look like I'm going to have twins :lol:
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    foggymike wrote:
    If you watch pro riders you see a lot of stomachs heaving in and out when they are working hard.

    Ah but your then into another sort of question. Indurain was once the man with the largest lung capacity on record, but got called podgy (by some not so polite press & others) for his organs being pushed down due to his sizeable lungs.

    Your diaphragm is at the bottom of your rib cage so it presses down on your other organs. I can inflate mine so that I look like I'm going to have twins :lol:

    He was properly berated in the press at the time for it notably the French I seem to recall, might have had something to do with his winning a lot. Any athlete with large enough lungs & muscle mass can look like they are podgy, not to be mistake with extremely fit was my point.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    Pross wrote:
    I'm not sure that it is something that you can easily do on a bike though where you are breathing to get oxygen into the blood but possibly after a big effort it might help you get the breathing back under control and the heart rate back down. I know it's the most natural way to breathe (watch a baby and they will do it just as Brian explains) but I think when you are fighting for oxygen during activity it is instinctive to go for more, shallower breathes.
    It is possible, though takes practice, and of course if you're on the drops you're 'pushing' the air down into the scrunched-over part of your body. I wonder if that's what gives Mark Cavendish this shape:

    4f87a1e79a799_Mark%20Cavendish.jpg

    Nah, he's that shape because all the people he saw riding UK roads in rainbow jerseys looked like that and, he felt he ought to conform :wink:
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    it is also recommended by physio's to help alleviate lower back pain.

    Yep that's when I first tried it. It was my physio that pointed out that babies do it naturally but that somewhere along the line we start doing it backwards (diaphragm expanding as we exhale). I still find it unnatural though and rarely do it.