Team Kit Chinese Style!!!!!
Comments
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meesterbond wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:
Why are they all having their photo taken in a storage facility - did the Chinese Olympic team have its base in the Big Yellow Storage Co in Kingston?
It's the fake national squad, same mould but open them* up and you'll find rolled up newspaper.
*may void warranty0 -
If you really have to buy team kit, buy team kit. Don't buy some fake kit that has nothing to do with the team. What is your motive for buying that particular team's kit? Is it to support them, like a football fan supports their team? If so, support that team by buying genuine.0
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The Monton website has been shut down. Wonder what it's new name is.
Try clicking on www.montoncycle.com/ and you get this
http://gbcinternetenforcement.net/13-14210 -
iPete wrote:meesterbond wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:
Why are they all having their photo taken in a storage facility - did the Chinese Olympic team have its base in the Big Yellow Storage Co in Kingston?
It's the fake national squad, same mould but open them* up and you'll find rolled up newspaper.
*may void warranty
haha
Its Team China entered into the Tour of Beijing -> I guess its taken in the back of a team van?0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:iPete wrote:meesterbond wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:
Why are they all having their photo taken in a storage facility - did the Chinese Olympic team have its base in the Big Yellow Storage Co in Kingston?
It's the fake national squad, same mould but open them* up and you'll find rolled up newspaper.
*may void warranty
haha
Its Team China entered into the Tour of Beijing -> I guess its taken in the back of a team van?
Are you sure about that.... the third one from the left doesn't look very happy to be there - was the photo taken by their gangmaster? Looks distinctly 'trafficked'.0 -
meesterbond wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:iPete wrote:meesterbond wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:
Why are they all having their photo taken in a storage facility - did the Chinese Olympic team have its base in the Big Yellow Storage Co in Kingston?
It's the fake national squad, same mould but open them* up and you'll find rolled up newspaper.
*may void warranty
haha
Its Team China entered into the Tour of Beijing -> I guess its taken in the back of a team van?
Are you sure about that.... the third one from the left doesn't look very happy to be there - was the photo taken by their gangmaster? Looks distinctly 'trafficked'.
I think they are still in a container at Felixtowe at the moment. If they make it through customs they'll be picking brussels sprouts in Wisbech by the weekend. Then they'll be wishing they'd packed a change of clothes.0 -
^this. Couldn't care less if anyone thinks I have a ripped off shirt from China. It's a good design, decent fabric and good fit at a sensible price. The teams do ok without my support buying stupidly overpriced jerseys.t4tomo wrote:meesterbond wrote:
The first point still stands though. Why support the market for fakes.
Or conversely, why get ripped off by kit manufacturers by paying massively inflated prices for permission to use their logo?
If you can afford the crazy prices to 'support your team' then good on you, it's gonna have no impact on me either way.
NB: happy Monton customer here. Sad to see the website taken down. I bought cheap fake knowingly but I dont think my jersey is at all dangerous.0 -
Monton are still trading, they're just using a new web address. For the money the stuff is good and you don't have to buy team kit, they do non team kit stuff.
The pads are thin, but that suits some.0 -
The POV of the company is entirely wrong of course because copyright infringement is not theft. This is why the law does not treat the copying of a CD in the same way as it does stealing one from HMV (if you can find one).Barteos wrote:I'm afraid that very few people are capable of grasping the concept of intellectual property and to understand that from the POV of the company there is no difference between folks buying fakes and folks looting the warehouse.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Sprool wrote:
^this. Couldn't care less if anyone thinks I have a ripped off shirt from China. It's a good design, decent fabric and good fit at a sensible price. The teams do ok without my support buying stupidly overpriced jerseys.t4tomo wrote:meesterbond wrote:
The first point still stands though. Why support the market for fakes.
Or conversely, why get ripped off by kit manufacturers by paying massively inflated prices for permission to use their logo?
If you can afford the crazy prices to 'support your team' then good on you, it's gonna have no impact on me either way.
NB: happy Monton customer here. Sad to see the website taken down. I bought cheap fake knowingly but I dont think my jersey is at all dangerous.
I think you'll find that, as is the case with Rabobank at the moment, HTC a few years back and the entire women's tour, no team is actually 'doing ok' and are one sponsor walking away from folding, although I'm not sure buying a few shirts is actually going to make much of a difference to that.
I guess it comes down to your own ethics really. Whilst it isn't illegal to buy fakes, it is illegal to sell them. If you're happy to support those illegal activities, then I doubt anyone here is going to persuade you otherwise.
Just because you don't believe something is worth the price that's being charged doesn't give anyone the right to steal that IP / design / whatever...0 -
meesterbond wrote:Sprool wrote:
^this. Couldn't care less if anyone thinks I have a ripped off shirt from China. It's a good design, decent fabric and good fit at a sensible price. The teams do ok without my support buying stupidly overpriced jerseys.t4tomo wrote:meesterbond wrote:
The first point still stands though. Why support the market for fakes.
Or conversely, why get ripped off by kit manufacturers by paying massively inflated prices for permission to use their logo?
If you can afford the crazy prices to 'support your team' then good on you, it's gonna have no impact on me either way.
NB: happy Monton customer here. Sad to see the website taken down. I bought cheap fake knowingly but I dont think my jersey is at all dangerous.
I think you'll find that, as is the case with Rabobank at the moment, HTC a few years back and the entire women's tour, no team is actually 'doing ok' and are one sponsor walking away from folding, although I'm not sure buying a few shirts is actually going to make much of a difference to that.
I guess it comes down to your own ethics really. Whilst it isn't illegal to buy fakes, it is illegal to sell them. If you're happy to support those illegal activities, then I doubt anyone here is going to persuade you otherwise.
Just because you don't believe something is worth the price that's being charged doesn't give anyone the right to steal that IP / design / whatever...
This.0 -
I'm pretty sure that buying a few shirts won't save a failing team from financial difficulty. I'm also pretty sure that most companies get their jerseys sourced overseas in Asia so theres a sports garment retailer in the middle making big bucks out of the very high prices you pay for a 'legit' team shirt as opposed to a cheap illegal one. Stealing the IP comes down to them copying a few logos and colours, I can't get too moral about it, I think there's a lot more serious evil stuff going on in the world to get puritanical about a particular design of cycle shirt that appeals to you. Many people can't afford the £70 - £120 prices charged for legit shirts, just like many parents can't afford to pay £80 so their lad can run around in the latest seasons Man Utd kit. I think personally these proces are crazy considering where the items are manufactured, and they are milking this concept of fan base loyalty; that if you really support a team you'll be prepared to pay over 3 times the real price of a sports shirt - its a cynical money-making ploy by the team managers exploiting the loyal fan base. They should be helping to support their fanbase, not rip them off, and stop feeding the middle men, go direct to Monton for all your clothing needs, make sure you help support free enterprise in a struggling emerging economy!
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Sprool wrote:I'm pretty sure that buying a few shirts won't save a failing team from financial difficulty. I'm also pretty sure that most companies get their jerseys sourced overseas in Asia so theres a sports garment retailer in the middle making big bucks out of the very high prices you pay for a 'legit' team shirt as opposed to a cheap illegal one. Stealing the IP comes down to them copying a few logos and colours, I can't get too moral about it, I think there's a lot more serious evil stuff going on in the world to get puritanical about a particular design of cycle shirt that appeals to you. Many people can't afford the £70 - £120 prices charged for legit shirts, just like many parents can't afford to pay £80 so their lad can run around in the latest seasons Man Utd kit. I think personally these proces are crazy considering where the items are manufactured, and they are milking this concept of fan base loyalty; that if you really support a team you'll be prepared to pay over 3 times the real price of a sports shirt - its a cynical money-making ploy by the team managers exploiting the loyal fan base. They should be helping to support their fanbase, not rip them off, and stop feeding the middle men, go direct to Monton for all your clothing needs, make sure you help support free enterprise in a struggling emerging economy!
All well and good, but conversely, why do you want to buy the kit if it's not to support and advertise the team? If it's as simple as "well, it's pretty colours" then there's plenty of legitimate, and very keenly priced alternatives out there.0 -
Look, the simple fact is it's cheap sweatshop rip off sh1t. Keep telling yourself it’s decent quality – it is not – and after a few rides it’ll start to smell rank and then it’s downhill from there. It’s not even as good as the base level training stuff that the main labels produce.
It’s cr4p. End of.0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:Look, the simple fact is it's cheap sweatshop rip off sh1t. Keep telling yourself it’s decent quality – it is not – and after a few rides it’ll start to smell rank and then it’s downhill from there. It’s not even as good as the base level training stuff that the main labels produce.
It’s cr4p. End of.
I'm not interested in buying team kit as they sell non branded stuff too, but I disagree with this comment. I've bought bibs and tops from monton. I train every day, give or take, and I've been using their stuff for well over a year now. Nothing has fallen apart, not even a stitch, and nothing smells either, in fact the colours seem fade less than some pearl izumi stuff I have. Obviously the quality isn't the same as assos or castelli, but it's nowhere near as bad as what you suggest.
When you consider the cost it's quite good quality for what you're paying. Bibs pads will always be an issue with some as we're not all the same shape, so what suits some won't suit others, but they seem to fit me well. I know plenty of guys who use monton stuff and have the same experiences as me.
In contrast I have a pair gore bibs which are falling apart with half the use, and cost about seven times the price which is dissapointing.0 -
But surely all you're doing is supporting crime and adding to the proceeds of crime. By legitimising it to yourself and supporting it, there's a fair chance that its prevalence will increase and potentially escalate.
More and more products will be copied as the money rolls in, and who cares if they contain harmful stuff or blind a few kids either in production or the user end. You got something cheap so you're happy.
Personally, I'd rather not look like a riding billboard, I'd rather wear kit that I know doesn't support illegal activity.0 -
Sprool wrote:I'm pretty sure that buying a few shirts won't save a failing team from financial difficulty. I'm also pretty sure that most companies get their jerseys sourced overseas in Asia so theres a sports garment retailer in the middle making big bucks out of the very high prices you pay for a 'legit' team shirt as opposed to a cheap illegal one.
I'm not sure what you mean by most companies, but certainly pro teams generally don't use Asian stuff, or if they do it is highest quality.
On a general point, I've been riding and racing for 55 years and most people like me consider riding in modern team kit just naff. Either ride in your club kit, something neutral (but not black) or team kit from long ago - I sometimes use a SCIC or a Clave top on the turbo though.0 -
I have a contract with Sky so does this mean i can wear their kit?0
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Strith wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:Look, the simple fact is it's cheap sweatshop rip off sh1t. Keep telling yourself it’s decent quality – it is not – and after a few rides it’ll start to smell rank and then it’s downhill from there. It’s not even as good as the base level training stuff that the main labels produce.
It’s cr4p. End of.
I'm not interested in buying team kit as they sell non branded stuff too, but I disagree with this comment. I've bought bibs and tops from monton. I train every day, give or take, and I've been using their stuff for well over a year now. Nothing has fallen apart, not even a stitch, and nothing smells either, in fact the colours seem fade less than some pearl izumi stuff I have. Obviously the quality isn't the same as assos or castelli, but it's nowhere near as bad as what you suggest.
When you consider the cost it's quite good quality for what you're paying. Bibs pads will always be an issue with some as we're not all the same shape, so what suits some won't suit others, but they seem to fit me well. I know plenty of guys who use monton stuff and have the same experiences as me.
In contrast I have a pair gore bibs which are falling apart with half the use, and cost about seven times the price which is dissapointing.
This. On any 'assos/rapha is overpriced' thread there will be people making wild statements without having tried the gear. Similiarly, there are plenty willing to dismiss monton and the like as cheap cr@p without having tried it. It's not the best, but it's really not bad at all. I'm perfectly comfortable riding for 5-6 hours in my monton bibs and jersey (of their own design, not fake team kit!)
If you're arguing about the morality of producing or purchasing fake team kit, keep unjustified assumptions about quality out of it!0 -
Ok, assumptions not included, the fake kit I've seen is randomly sized, generally not cut to shape, hems and sleeves are at best elasticated at the hem only, at worst just a baggy tube that doesn't fit properly, and the shorts are basic.
So, as before, if I wanted cheaper kit, I'd choose a cheaper brand.0 -
How about if I wear a Monton sourced top with my pricey Shutt VR shorts...
I think the bigger crime is companies taking cheaper asian product, badging it up with their own logo and charging a stupid premium for it.
(I accept its all morally wrong)0 -
jimmythecuckoo wrote:How about if I wear a Monton sourced top with my pricey Shutt VR shorts...
I think the bigger crime is companies taking cheaper asian product, badging it up with their own logo and charging a stupid premium for it.
(I accept its all morally wrong)
Who badges up cheap Chinese stuff?0 -
There are a couple of company's in the uk market who get their stuff from China and then badge it up and spend money on marketing the product to sell at a higher price.
have a look in some of your kit.0 -
jimmythecuckoo wrote:There are a couple of company's in the uk market who get their stuff from China and then badge it up and spend money on marketing the product to sell at a higher price.
have a look in some of your kit.
Where something's made is irrelevant.
There's a world of difference between a company designing a product, the fabrics, construction etc, finding a factory to produce it for them and then selling it on and someone blatantly copying another's design and knocking it out cheaply.
I've no problem with Monton or whoever producing cheap jerseys and bibs of whatever quality they may be, provided they're not just ripping off someone else's IP.
Same applies with the fake Oakleys, Chinarellos etc0 -
Personally, I wouldn't buy knock-off stuff from Monton, just as I wouldn't illegally download music or buy a pirate DVD or software. Not because it's cheap or crappy, but because it's morally wrong. Yes, CDs/team kit/DVDs are expensive, but that's what the price is set at. And if I can't afford it, I can't buy it.
The argument that buying fakes is fine because we are being ripped off is specious at best. Don't imagine Monton aren't making healthy profits as well, almost certainly by paying very poor wages, demanding long hours from their workers, and by ignoring the already woefully inadequate health and safety regulations in place in China. The reason these fakes are so cheap is precisely because the manufacturers aren't encumbered by things such as the minimum wage, acceptable working conditions, or even having to design their own products.
As a professional photographer, I get pretty pissed off when people steal my images and make money from them, and I see no difference between doing that and knocking out fake bikes/kit/whatever. It's theft of someone else's intellectual property,and that's all there is to it. By all means try to justify it to yourselves, and others, but you will never convince me that it is in any way acceptable.0 -
jimmythecuckoo wrote:There are a couple of company's in the uk market who get their stuff from China and then badge it up and spend money on marketing the product to sell at a higher price.
have a look in some of your kit.
None in my cycling wardrobe.0 -
Interestingly (or not, if you have some prejudice against cheap chinese kit), Monton now seem to be separating their fake replica kit from their own brand (http://monton4cycling.com/)
The cycling-monton domain was taken down last week because of legal action from Oakley; justice of a sort, although monton-cycling domain is back up and running. They just aren't calling the sunglasses Oakley anymore!
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It isn't the copyright designs and patents act that you have to worry about its the Trade Marks Act 1994, sec 16 and 92
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/199 ... roceedings
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/199 ... g/offences
the penalties/remedies are not trivial. If you knowingly buy or sell a "replica".0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:jimmythecuckoo wrote:There are a couple of company's in the uk market who get their stuff from China and then badge it up and spend money on marketing the product to sell at a higher price.
have a look in some of your kit.
None in my cycling wardrobe.
You either have a small wardrobe, are very rich or have struck lucky!
I agree with a lot of this anti-Monton stuff, but back in the early 1990's legitimate bike shops were selling kits that were'nt original and we didnt have this moral debate then... or is that the internets fault?
(EXAMPLE: Fagor jersey identical in design but sporting the MBK bikes logo instead of Castelli).0
