Training / riding in the Dordogne...views please

skinsey

Hi all…I haven’t been on here for a while, so please forgive me coming back after a break to ask for views and feedback.

The basic question is whether you think there would be any interest from you, or the clubs and groups that ride with, in early to mid-season training or holiday weeks or long weekends in the Dordogne in France? The reason I ask is that I’m trying to assess the viability of a potential business. Let me explain the proposition in a bit more detail. I’m aware obviously that there are early season training camps in places like Majorca, Tenerife and elsewhere, but I think there could be advantages in doing something similar in the Dordogne – the countryside is interesting and sufficiently rolling for the rides to be challenging, bit without the significant hills that break groups up; the weather is warm, without being stifling, and there are a variety of options for getting there – flights to Limoges, Bordeaux or Bergerac, or rail to Angouleme.

The groups would obviously be met at the airport/station and transported to a location I’ve got in mind on the Dordogne/Charente border, where there would be comfortable accommodation, safe storage for the bikes, a workshop, a swimming pool, and the provision of cycling-appropriate breakfasts and evening meals. The groups would have the choice of routes pre-ridden and planned by me, with GPX files and the like being uploaded to navigation devices. Rides would be supported by the provision of food, drink and spares, but not led. And of course on wonderfully quiet, smooth French roads.

So what do you think? Useful addition to training/holiday options, or of no value whatsoever? Your opinions would be genuinely welcome. Thanks in advance.

ju5t1n

I don't think the weather would be reliable enough. It can be very nice but I've cycled the Dordogne in April and it was cold and wet. We even had a bit of snow. Most training happens earlier than that too. I've just come back from a week in southern Spain where it was 12 degs (ish) which is still on the cold side, but OK. I wouldn't consider France in Feb or March.

bernithebiker

I have been trying to do something similar in Brittany based around our chateau.

Here's the problems I found;

1. Most keen cyclists can afford the time and money for one trip abroad. The vast majority will go for the Alps and the Pyrenees.
2. The extra keen ones, may be able to do 2 or more. But they will pick Spain or similar for an early season ride, then do the mountains in the summer. You have to try to lure them away.
3. Some Spanish centres offer excellent (almost unbeatable) value for money as the hotels would otherwise be empty.
4. Some are way overpriced, but they target the rich bankers, Americans, etc.
5. Marketing - there is a lot of competition, and you have to be prepared to invest in a lot of advertising. (I am not, as it's just a sideline for me).
6. So realistically, you're looking at a season of May to Sep, and you're after a finite pool of very keen cyclists.

I think it is important to lead the rides, as people will always get lost, no matter how good the maps are.

Oh yeah, our next week is planned for September!!

(Personally, I love the best climbs in the Alps, but a lot of the other bits are ugly - lots of medium industry and quite a bit of traffic - Pyrenees better. Finistere, Brittany is great because the roads are empty and the riding very varied and beautiful).

bigpikle

Been to the Dordogne the last 2 summers and enjoyed some cracking riding over many many miles. I'll even be going back again this summer but.... like has been pointed out, I think the weather issue is a big one for a business and the season for guaranteed riding in pretty good weather is a little short. We even looked at buying a place - partly for us and also as a rental property and maybe even to offer to cycling mates wanting to do the same thing, but again I think the weather might be too unreliable for many months?

My clubmates that do training camps typically go to Mallorca from around mid-March as its typically much better weather, or if going any earlier then its the Canaries. I go to Gran Canaria every Xmas for 7-10 days and always ride there but thats always 20 degs and sunny. There might be opportunities for holidays rather than training camps but I'm not sure the Dordogne has the attraction of true mountains despite it being a great place to ride. I only go as part of a family holiday and my main trips are always to the Alps, Pyrenees or Dolomites for specific events or challenges. I dont think the Dordogne can match that for cyclists looking for cycling challenge rather than a couple of weeks touring around sightseeing, for which the Dordogne would actually be a cracking destination. Maybe a tweak to your plan to refocus it on touring/sightseeing/vineyard 50-60 miles days might be another approach?

bernithebiker

Oh yeah, how did I forget? French bureaucracy!

Have you had experience of working or doing business in France?

The red tape and tax situation is a TOTAL nightmare. NOONE fully understands the tax rules, they are so complex, especially when you chuck in dual nationality/residency.

You will almost certainly be obliged to have various competence certificates in health and safety and managing a group on the roads. You will have to pay Taxe de Sejour on each of your guests, and try to understand how to pay all your different taxes (there are about 7, just to kick off).

And don't even THINK about employing someone; not only is it impossible to sack them if they're crap, you will be deluged by forms and red tape, that means you have to then also employ a secretary to handle it all.......!!

And if you get lucky and get rich on it, watch out, as you'll start paying ISF or wealth tax on all your worldwide assets.

grazza_e

Hi, I love the region, I spent some time down there last year and did a bit of cycling. My general concerns would be:
- I think it would be really hard to convince serious riders to choose that area for early-season work given weather, there's a reason spain is so popular!

- So from that perspective, you are probably limiting yourself to a relatively short 'season' from April 'ish' to October, when your more serious cyclists who would do training weeks are into race mode.

But a couple of ideas:
- I do think there is a serious underappreciation of the sportive scene in france (it doesn't start and end with the Etape!). I did 'la limousine' last year, which is quite close to your area and it was brilliant. Closed roads, wonderful scenery, so much better than anything i've done in the UK. If you could familiarize yourself with every sportive in the region, and hook people up to spend a week around that race, you might have a really good angle?

- Beyond that, I think you are realistically just another holiday villa / gite etc. but trying to market for cyclists. I've had this same idea for a while, but i've always struggled with how I connect me with cycling-loving punters. On a personal level, I think it's the best option for a training camp, rent a holiday villa with some mates (and / or family), from a cyclist who knows the region / routes / local intel, but without the cost of a fully-guided camp. I really do think there is a market there, but as mentioned, it's a 'marketing' challenge of how do you connect yourself with the niche group of people who would want to do that.

skinsey

Thanks all for your replies, really well considered and good advice; much appreciated. Bernie - I've also got a place in Brittany at the moment, and have toyed with doing something similar there - but it's the variable weather that has put me off. And yes, I've done enough research and know enough people with businesses in France to know how hard the bureaucracy can be to find your way through. Grazza - thanks for your ideas; really interesting ones.

My conclusion - I don't think I can make a living out of this at the moment. I remain convinced there's a business for someone out there, a halfway house between the fully organised weeks in the Pyrenees/Alps, and complete DIY riding, but I'm not sure I'm the one to pull it off. (I'm not in the fortunate position of being able to chuck some money at it and pull out if it doesn't work). Thanks again for helping me get to that point.

Courage Monsieur

As others have said, the weather would put me off.
However, if you got it right then you could sell it as a summer offer - alternative to the Alps and Pyrenees.
When it comes to high summer it's too hot for the Canaries etc, and not everyone wants to do big climbs.
I'd go with a more 'relaxed' holiday offer - couples etc. Still for keen cyclists, but not a full-on training thing, as you're probably not going to get that crowd in summer.
I'm considering Girona in a few weeks and the key factors are - weather, availability of good hire bikes, price.

Ron Stuart

Algarve all year round cycling!!! With all types of parcours except high mountains but still up to 18km climbs (Foia 902m)