Satnav for bikes?
Murnau
Posts: 23
I've recently upgraded my well-worn hybrid to a sparkling Cannondale CAAD10, and am loving the chance to get out on some long (for me) rides of 50-60 miles. What I really want to do is plot a route online before I go out (I've been using bikehike.co.uk for this and importing the file into Google Maps) and then use that as a kind of bike TomTom so I don't get lost (I have no sense of direction). I've got an iPhone and was going to get a mount to use it for this purpose (as I use Strava on all my rides anyway), but the Google Maps app doesn't allow you to use an overlay. So my question is really, does anyone else use any kind of navigation on rides, and what's the most effective way of doing this?
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ever heard of garmin edge? if yo dont want to spend a lot just pic up some o/s maps.0
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Lots of people here use various Garmins. The 800 is popular but ludicrously overpriced compared to car satnavs. It does at least have good battery life unlike most smartphones but do you really need turn by turn directions on a bike? Perhaps that is a useful feature to some people but not me.
If I were to get lost, I could stop and look at my phone, but it hasn't happened yet. I know the roads pretty well where I cycle.0 -
You can also use even the Edge 200 for navigation. You can plot out the route and store it in the device, it then gives a trail on screen that you can follow. It works quite well on my 500, but if you don't want cadence and HR sensors, you can get the 200 from £75 ATM.0
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Lots of bike specific options.
Garmin Edge as mentioned but also Bryton Rider (I have the 35). This uses the breadcrumb type of navigation (as does the Garmin 500 and 200) which is not a map as such but it shows you how far to a turning and then directs you where there is a decision to make. It also tells you if you go off track (this is obviously after you have uploaded a pre-determined route to it).
If you want full maps (as in like a car sat nav) then you need to go up the range to the Garmin 800 or the Bryton 50.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
Thanks for the replies. The Garmin Edge does seem idea but that's a ridiculous price - even more so when compared to similar TomTom satnavs. Will check the 200 out, but am drawn towards having an OS map on me, and even using my iPhone if things start to go horribly wrong. Still surprised there's not a cheaper, more convenient solution out there for cyclists.0
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I got the Bryton Rider 35 with cadence and HR for £90 last week.
Iphone will last about 2 hrs using it as a sat nav and the map thing is great until you have to stop and get it out of your pocket.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong but are these car sat navs as small, lightweight, as water resistant and good on battery power?
If it was possible to create a vastly cheaper solution, it would probably exist..0 -
i think u hit the nail on the head there iPete. Garmin 200's can be got for £70 on ebay but limited use for navigating or pathfinding.iPete wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but are these car sat navs as small, lightweight, as water resistant and good on battery power?
If it was possible to create a vastly cheaper solution, it would probably exist..0 -
dai_t75 wrote:smidsy wrote:I got the Bryton Rider 35 with cadence and HR for £90 last week.
Iphone will last about 2 hrs using it as a sat nav and the map thing is great until you have to stop and get it out of your pocket.
Where did you manage to get that from? Seems like a bargain.
Cyclestore.co.uk
Seems as though they have none left though
Yellow is the new Black.0 -
There are pros and cons amongst the various options in the garmin range and their competitors. My advice would be hang onto your hard earned until you are sure of exactly the features you want and need. If you are that concerned, you could take some paper with you in the form of a map or a list of instructions. You could do what I tend to do a lot of and do an out and back course until you get a little more familiar with your area and add bits in to it as necessary0
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Car satnavs clearly don't need to be waterproof and being small would be a positive disadvantage but I don't believe that either of these reasons justifies the ludicrous price of bike satnavs.iPete wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but are these car sat navs as small, lightweight, as water resistant and good on battery power?
If it was possible to create a vastly cheaper solution, it would probably exist..
A bottom of the range smartphone, which costs about the same as a fairly basic car satnav, can do far more than a satnav, is small and light and has a much nicer screen together with lots of more expensive components that a satnav doesn't need. Making things small isn't expensive any longer and in some instances, eg the screen, saves money. Making things waterproof costs something but doesn't cost even a tenth of the difference between car and bike satnavs.
I have yet to see anything that justifies the massive price differences so I intend to stick with my smartphone in my jersey pocket.
Having said that, if you do need turn by turn directions and you are likely to be out for more than 2 hours, a bike specific satnav may be your best option because they do have much better battery life than smartphones being used as satnavs.0 -
if u ride the same route and never go anywhere you have never been b4, then u dont need turn by turn, i do, so i do need turn by turn. i used to carry os maps, but got too much hassle so got the edge 800 as a very late christmas present, and apart from some minor glitches, that are probably down to user error, its a fantastic bit of kit and allows you to get on with the ride rather than worrying about navigation in places you are unfamiliar with. i have only used the mapping and course creation functions hus far but once i get to know the basics well will move onto some of the other excellent features it has for training purposes and logging rides.0
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I'm fairly sure the GPS in the 800 is more accurate and generally superior to that of a smart phone, then in terms of production, do you think Garmin shift as many bike units as car or anywhere near as many iPhones? The volume is surely much lower.
Like I said, there is no doubt an element of bike tax but if it could be done cheaper it would and everyone here would be ordering the Chinese equivalents with their Chinarellos.0 -
There's also Mio Cyclo, very good bike computers, easy to use and a range of them.
http://eu.mio.com/en_eu/bicycle-navigation.htm0 -
I bought the Garmin 800 last week after selling an unused bass guitar and a using £50 discount code for Wiggle. I couldn't have justified the price otherwise, but when I used it on Tuesday to guide me to box hill it was excellent. I had been in the area before with my phone and it was so annoying to have to stop every 15mins to check I was going along the right road. It also ended up running out of battery.
With the 800, the guidance was really clear and there is no chance I would have been able to take the route that I plotted on ridewithgps without it. Personally I think that on busier roads, the breadcrumb trail offered by other GPS devices might have been a bit dangerous as it's not as clear and on a smaller screen. I'm sure it would be fine if you had quieter roads where the route would be pretty obvious though. One of the other reasons I bought the 800 was because I'm going abroad later in the year so it will be really handy then.0 -
lotus49 wrote:
Car satnavs clearly don't need to be waterproof and being small would be a positive disadvantage but I don't believe that either of these reasons justifies the ludicrous price of bike satnavs.iPete wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but are these car sat navs as small, lightweight, as water resistant and good on battery power?
If it was possible to create a vastly cheaper solution, it would probably exist..
A bottom of the range smartphone, which costs about the same as a fairly basic car satnav, can do far more than a satnav, is small and light and has a much nicer screen together with lots of more expensive components that a satnav doesn't need. Making things small isn't expensive any longer and in some instances, eg the screen, saves money. Making things waterproof costs something but doesn't cost even a tenth of the difference between car and bike satnavs.
I have yet to see anything that justifies the massive price differences so I intend to stick with my smartphone in my jersey pocket.
Having said that, if you do need turn by turn directions and you are likely to be out for more than 2 hours, a bike specific satnav may be your best option because they do have much better battery life than smartphones being used as satnavs.
But it's not just a satnav, it's a bike computer, and training aid, remembers your rides, speed, elevation, temp, cadence, heart rate etc etc. Waterproof and the battery lasts all day.
Your smartphone may well suffice for shorter rides but it wont be so smart when the batteries run out!
Last time I checked a iPhone 5 was over £500 sim free.0 -
One could argue that iPhones are incredibly overpriced for what they are0
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Flasher wrote:Your smartphone may well suffice for shorter rides but it wont be so smart when the batteries run out!
Last time I checked a iPhone 5 was over £500 sim free.
Androids are cheap to buy. Picked up a battery charger and base for £10 on fleaBay recently. Takes 10 seconds to change over.
Been looking at the Bryton Rider 35. £102 on CycleTweeks at the moment - though it's not a site I've ever used. Doesn't look as good as the Garmin equivalents but it's a good price for what it does.0 -
You have forgotten economies of scale, how many bottom of the range smart phones are manufatured and sold globally against a bike specific satnav system such as a Garmin 800. This will also have a significant effect on unit price.lotus49 wrote:
Car satnavs clearly don't need to be waterproof and being small would be a positive disadvantage but I don't believe that either of these reasons justifies the ludicrous price of bike satnavs.iPete wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but are these car sat navs as small, lightweight, as water resistant and good on battery power?
If it was possible to create a vastly cheaper solution, it would probably exist..
A bottom of the range smartphone, which costs about the same as a fairly basic car satnav, can do far more than a satnav, is small and light and has a much nicer screen together with lots of more expensive components that a satnav doesn't need. Making things small isn't expensive any longer and in some instances, eg the screen, saves money. Making things waterproof costs something but doesn't cost even a tenth of the difference between car and bike satnavs.
I have yet to see anything that justifies the massive price differences so I intend to stick with my smartphone in my jersey pocket.
Having said that, if you do need turn by turn directions and you are likely to be out for more than 2 hours, a bike specific satnav may be your best option because they do have much better battery life than smartphones being used as satnavs.0 -
I have a Garmin 705 which is a 'down graded' one from the 800 or newer versions. It does corner to corner directions. Using the public maps is a bit of a faff though as we need an internet programme to load it up on to the machine. I think it cost me about £200 a couple of years ago - battery works fine still (6-7hrs is the longest I've had it on and it's never ran out.) I've never tried the other makes but it's definately worth the money.
Mx0 -
All of which a £5 Android/iPhone app could do. The battery life is an issue and I did say that in my post above but that is the only feature that I can see is worth paying for and even then, only if you really need turn by turn directions. Paying £240 just to avoid having to take a couple of spare batteries that can be had on eBay for £3 each doesn't strike me as good value (although this is not an option if you have an iPhone).Flasher wrote:But it's not just a satnav, it's a bike computer, and training aid, remembers your rides, speed, elevation, temp, cadence, heart rate etc etc. Waterproof and the battery lasts all day.
Your smartphone may well suffice for shorter rides but it wont be so smart when the batteries run out!
That is a fair point but I still don't believe it even gets close to justifying the massive price difference.NewTTer wrote:You have forgotten economies of scale, how many bottom of the range smart phones are manufatured and sold globally against a bike specific satnav system such as a Garmin 800. This will also have a significant effect on unit price.
I have just had a quick look on the net. A Garmin Nuvi 1200T is £49. A Garmin 800 is £237. You're not telling me that within one manufacturer which will reuse many components, that economies of scale account for its being 4.8 times as expensive.0 -
smidsy wrote:dai_t75 wrote:smidsy wrote:I got the Bryton Rider 35 with cadence and HR for £90 last week.
Iphone will last about 2 hrs using it as a sat nav and the map thing is great until you have to stop and get it out of your pocket.
Where did you manage to get that from? Seems like a bargain.
Cyclestore.co.uk
Seems as though they have none left though
indeed, wait until tomorrow I thought.0 -
smidsy wrote:I got the Bryton Rider 35 with cadence and HR for £90 last week.
Iphone will last about 2 hrs using it as a sat nav and the map thing is great until you have to stop and get it out of your pocket.
my iphone lasted a 6 hour ride a few weeks ago.. andstill had 20% left on strava
so ok to record a ride but not used for out and out navigation.Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels
http://app.strava.com/athletes/8812110 -
Remember though the Garmin 800 has all the ANT+ stuff and car sat navs don't. You can't reuse those components. A 1200T is old disontinued unit as well.lotus49 wrote:
That is a fair point but I still don't believe it even gets close to justifying the massive price difference.NewTTer wrote:You have forgotten economies of scale, how many bottom of the range smart phones are manufatured and sold globally against a bike specific satnav system such as a Garmin 800. This will also have a significant effect on unit price.
I have just had a quick look on the net. A Garmin Nuvi 1200T is £49. A Garmin 800 is £237. You're not telling me that within one manufacturer which will reuse many components, that economies of scale account for its being 4.8 times as expensive.0 -
lotus49 wrote:I have just had a quick look on the net. A Garmin Nuvi 1200T is £49. A Garmin 800 is £237. You're not telling me that within one manufacturer which will reuse many components, that economies of scale account for its being 4.8 times as expensive.
It's like comparing apples and oranges, one is a basic car sat nav whilst the other is a bike training computer that also has sat nav, along with being battery powered and waterproof.0 -
pinarellokid wrote:smidsy wrote:I got the Bryton Rider 35 with cadence and HR for £90 last week.
Iphone will last about 2 hrs using it as a sat nav and the map thing is great until you have to stop and get it out of your pocket.
my iphone lasted a 6 hour ride a few weeks ago.. andstill had 20% left on strava
so ok to record a ride but not used for out and out navigation.
Indeed, but that is not what the OP wants - he wants sat nav so 2hrs is what he will get with that.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
No it isn't, the differences are trivial and don't go even close to justifying the price difference.Flasher wrote:lotus49 wrote:I have just had a quick look on the net. A Garmin Nuvi 1200T is £49. A Garmin 800 is £237. You're not telling me that within one manufacturer which will reuse many components, that economies of scale account for its being 4.8 times as expensive.
It's like comparing apples and oranges, one is a basic car sat nav whilst the other is a bike training computer that also has sat nav, along with being battery powered and waterproof.
As I pointed out above, the bike computer functionality is just software and Android and iPhone apps will do all of this for less than £5. Modern satnavs are just low-powered general purpose computers with GPS running specialist software. The bike computer functionality is very simple and as can been seen by the price of such software elsewhere should be very cheap. That explains £5 of the difference.
Car satnavs are battery powered the same as bike satnavs so that explains a further £0 of the difference. It's true that car satnavs aren't waterproof but a good waterproof case for a large smartphone costs £20 but wouldn't cost Garmin that so that explains no more than another £15 of the difference. ANT+ hardware costs about £15 retail so let's be generous and say that cost Garmin £10.
In total that comes to £35. Where did the other ~£150 go?0 -
lotus49 wrote:
No it isn't, the differences are trivial and don't go even close to justifying the price difference.Flasher wrote:lotus49 wrote:I have just had a quick look on the net. A Garmin Nuvi 1200T is £49. A Garmin 800 is £237. You're not telling me that within one manufacturer which will reuse many components, that economies of scale account for its being 4.8 times as expensive.
It's like comparing apples and oranges, one is a basic car sat nav whilst the other is a bike training computer that also has sat nav, along with being battery powered and waterproof.
As I pointed out above, the bike computer functionality is just software and Android and iPhone apps will do all of this for less than £5.
Lol.........
iPhone 5 from £529 sim free +£5 app = £534
Garmin 800 £237
So the Garmin looks a bargain to me
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Don't forget £36 for the ANT+ adapter
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