Cyclescheme - can I return the bike?

bunter

after having wiped out on a corner for the second time this morning I have come to the conclusion that the new bike simply does not handle safely with a rack and panniers. The handling in general is sketchy, but on corners you can lose both wheels with no warning. I have also had a host of reliability issues and it has spent lots of time back at the lbs being fixed, only for new problems to appear.

I have had the bike for about 3 months on cyclesheme and now want to return it and go back to using my old bike. I paid an extra £300 on top of the £1000, so I guess this will be written off. Does anyone know where I stand if I want to return the the bike?

gtvlusso

What make of bike is it?

You don't own the bike, it is leased to you. So, I think you will have to try and talk to the retailer, however, as you simply think that the bike is unsafe; they will probably safety check it and then return it to you.

I would just sell it.....and screw the lease deal.

cyclingprop

Probably not possible.

Try changing the tyres to something more suitable first... (I did this and went from stock Bontragers to Conti GP, the bike went from me not trusting it in the corner to hammer down banked cornering with lots of trust).

What are you running at the moment?? They may be fine for Summer but unlikely for Winter...

Drfabulous0

Not really, you have entered into a contract and ending it early will entail penalties, bear in mind that your employer owns the bike and has paid for it, if you sold it that would be theft.

What is the bike and have you considered upgrading the tyres?

kelsen

That sounds pretty extreme! If it is inherently unsafe you'd have a case against the manufacturer, though if it's a cyclescheme bike you probably have to go through your company. What make is it? Are you sure it's not just a case of inappropriate speed for the conditions?

tgotb

Sorry - I don't think you can. In practice (though not in theory) you could always sell it on...

What tyres do you have on there? We might be able to solve your handling problems quite easily/cheaply, especially if you have something like Gatorskins or Marathons...

Oh, and what bike is it? (probably less significant than the tyres...)

spasypaddy

Ok.

in all honesty it will come down to the shops policy. You might be able to get an exchange but not a refund.

However if youve crashed a few times and there is any damage to the bike they will tell you that no they cant take it back.

bunter

it's a Charge Filter Apex, running some pretty wide marathons (I haven't checked, but at least 28mm) - I was used to Marathon + on my old bike, which grip worse, but never had issues like this. Both times I have been cornering carefully at low speed, with my weight on the outer pedal, only to find myself sliding along the tarmac on my hip. I just find it doesn't handle well at all once there is some weight on the panniers.

I have had brake problems (front and rear), failed bottom bracket, broken spokes (twice), back wheel gone badly out of true (once), saddle issues...

I only just got it back from the lbs and it has started making new noises when I push hard on the pedals. Now I have come off again it will be hard to prove whether any new issues are caused by the bike or the off...

I just don't feel like I can trust the thing to get me through the tours I had planned for the summer.

Drfabulous0

There's nothing inherently wrong with the bike, Marathons are notoriously bad for grip, you could try GP 4 Seasons or something instead, Avid BB5s will always give trouble, try to upgrade to BB7s if you can afford to. TBH I suspect that you could sort a lot of this by sorting out your panniers, don't carry around unnecessary stuff, ensure the heaviest gear is at the bottom and make sure the rack is as low as it can be.

pangolin

If you want to try some fairly cheap tyres to see if that sorts it out, I had these on my kaffenback when I did a long tour with rear panniers. They were very good in my experience.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/vittoria-randonneur-city-tyre-2012/

lostboysaint

Does sound very much like a "cheap OEM" tyre issue. Although they're a well known name they are likely to be a shockingly poor, cheap compound and have even less grip. Get them changed pronto.

davmaggs

I can't comment on the technicals of the bike, but I'd be very surprised if panniers were the root cause. They are only going to be a small percentage of your body weight unless you are touring and carrying the world with you.

Assuming that the bike was assembled correctly, then it would be tyres, brakes, or riding style that makes the difference on corners.

gtvlusso

bunter wrote:

it's a Charge Filter Apex, running some pretty wide marathons (I haven't checked, but at least 28mm) - I was used to Marathon + on my old bike, which grip worse, but never had issues like this. Both times I have been cornering carefully at low speed, with my weight on the outer pedal, only to find myself sliding along the tarmac on my hip. I just find it doesn't handle well at all once there is some weight on the panniers.

I have had brake problems (front and rear), failed bottom bracket, broken spokes (twice), back wheel gone badly out of true (once), saddle issues...

I only just got it back from the lbs and it has started making new noises when I push hard on the pedals. Now I have come off again it will be hard to prove whether any new issues are caused by the bike or the off...

I just don't feel like I can trust the thing to get me through the tours I had planned for the summer.

Assume you are riding it in all weathers?

Sounds like a poorly built bike from the part failures. From what I have seen on t'interweb - it looks fairly standard and relaxed riding position.

Question: How did you come off it?

kelsen

gtvlusso wrote:

Question: How did you come off it?

Yes, would be interesting to know. An illustration using standard accident notation would help. See link for examples.

tgotb

As others said, ditch the tyres and get something with some grip. My Brompton came with Schwalbe Marathons, and was absolutely lethal until I changed to Stelvios. Unless you're riding off road (or possibly full-on touring) tyre width is a red herring. I'm probably 110kg all-up on the commuter, and 21mm Conti 4 seasons are just fine, wide tyres aren't going to give you any more grip. Plenty of tyre discussions on this forum, but I'd err on the side of grip (rather than longevity) until you regain confidence in your bike. Or, if the wheels are the same side, borrow the tyres off the old bike you're confident in, and see what a difference it makes.

Bottom Brackets these days have to be treated as consumables. I suspect yours is kn***ered, and no "adjustment" by the LBS is going to rectify that. That said, you should be able to get a new one for a little more than a tenner (possibly less).

fossyant

Unlikely to be the bike. Ice/fuel on road = most likely. I run GP 4 Seasons which are very grippy. I also commute fixed with panniers, and haven't had any issues with handling at all, sometimes the panniers are very heavy with locks.

bunter

kelsen wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Question: How did you come off it?

Yes, would be interesting to know. An illustration using standard accident notation would help. See link for examples.

well that link at least cheered me up...

Not sure a picture would really help in explaining it though. Today I was taking a right hand corner after coming over a small bridge over the Ribbl here https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=53.815665,-2.51367&hl=en&ll=53.815748,-2.513702&spn=0.002293,0.009645&sll=53.815665,-2.51367&sspn=0.002293,0.009645&hnear=Ribchester,+Lancashire,+United+Kingdom&t=m&layer=c&cbll=53.81575,-2.513703&panoid=d54oAZ33CsahXjc63a5x4g&cbp=11,181.6,,0,15.41&z=17.

I took the corner pretty slowly, with my outer pedal down and putting my weight onto it, trying to move my centre of balance forward somewhat. Both wheels lost it simultaneously and I ended up on my right side, sliding along the road on my hip. I have holed my winter bibs. One whole side of my softshell jacket is black, but is probably more grazed than holed. I have a nice round patch of road rash on my right hip. The bike seems ok apart from more damage to the right shifter, which I am going to have to go down and straighten in a minute.

I may try a set of conti 4 seasons, and see if that helps.

Also, thanks everyone for your advice - I appreciate it.

supersonic

Don't take this the wrong way, but how much maintenance have you done ie checking parts, adjusting, regreasing/oiling, serviving and so on? This could help with the mechanicals.

gtvlusso

Glad you are okay and not too badly banged up.

This does sound like tyres rather than handling.....

bunter

supersonic wrote:

Don't take this the wrong way, but how much maintenance have you done ie checking parts, adjusting, regreasing/oiling, serviving and so on? This could help with the mechanicals.

I am by no means expert but reasonable, rather than great at servicing bikes. I keep the drivechain clean & lubed, index the gears and adjust/align brakes myself. The bike itself is only a few months old and has been pretty comprehensively looked at by the lbs due to all the issues I have had with it that are beyond my ken, like rebuilding wheels. I usually get the lbs to do a full service about once per year. In the past I have had an enjoyable period of new bikeness with a new bike, where everything pretty much works and I can just enjoy it. Not so with this one.

The Rookie

Handling and grip are not the same thing, a bike can grip well and handle badly and vice versa, your issue sounds like grip which basically means tyres, how 5Kg of pannier effects it with circa 70-80Kg of person aboard I'm not sure!

I ride with a 3.5Kg laptop bag and 1.35Kg of lunchbox and circa 0.5Kg of tools etc and have no issue.

Drfabulous0

The Beginner wrote:

I ride with a 3.5Kg laptop bag and 1.35Kg of lunchbox and circa 0.5Kg of tools etc and have no issue.

Man what are you having for lunch?

The Rookie

200g of tupperware, 3 yoghurts (or similar, creme caramels go down nicely), 3 pieces of fruit (bannana, orange, apple), round of sarnies (Ham cheese and pickle today) and 3 snacks (usually 'muesli bar' style), enough to last from 8-4:30 although when cycling I may be tempted into a choccy bar as well!

bunter

I've not yet weighed my panniers (what fun!), but with 15" macbook pro, tools, clothes and other bits, they end up being pretty heavy. For whatever reason it feels like a different bike when I ride without them.

The Rookie

I do find with the panniers laden that I sit and spin more than getting out the saddle (the 'bike' weight has obviously increased a lot) which effects control as you have more balance and therfore control out the saddle, but on a road bike that only really comes into play once you have lost grip already, so we're back to grip.

bunter

I have a set of Conti 4 seasons on order & will let y'all know how I get on. I am hoping to get my confidence back with some better rubber between me and the road...

bails87

I found GP4Seasons much better than the gatorskins they replaced. The Gators slipped about far too much when it got wet and/or cold.

Drfabulous0

Hope the tyres work out for you, if not I am recommending stabilisers.

cookdn

Drfabulous0 wrote:

Avid BB5s will always give trouble

Really, I hadn't noticed :?.

Like all brakes they need adjusting from time-to-time but seem to stop the combined 110Kg combined mass of me and bike pretty sharpish when required . BB7s would be nicer (I suppose) but I'm not sure why everybody hates on BB5s, they seem to be perfectly adequate to me .

bunter

after more bottom bracket trouble and another broken spoke the lbs are now sending the bike back to the manufacturer. The guys there have been super helpful and have spent hours working on the bike so far.

So for the time being I am back on the old boneshaker with a rucksack. I have the Conti tyres sitting at home with some haribo just waiting... they feel like really nice tyres...

Kieran_Burns

cookdn wrote:

Drfabulous0 wrote:

Avid BB5s will always give trouble

Really, I hadn't noticed :?.

Like all brakes they need adjusting from time-to-time but seem to stop the combined 110Kg combined mass of me and bike pretty sharpish when required . BB7s would be nicer (I suppose) but I'm not sure why everybody hates on BB5s, they seem to be perfectly adequate to me .

Do what?

BB5s may not be as easy to dial in as BB7s, but they're far from impossible. Plus they work really well compared to the Tricross rim brakes.

When my mate is cycling behind me he knows to not be too close as my stopping power is WAY better than his (and in the wet he always stays off my line as there is no comparison and he's likely to sail past when I've stopped)