Don Valley Stadium

random man

Sheffield City Council have voted to close Don Valley Stadium and demolish it as they can't afford to keep subsidising it. It's an understandable decision in these straitened times but I hope it doesn't happen.
I would have thought that following the Olympics that Lottery funding could be found to keep it going. It's a great asset to a city the size of Sheffield, not just for athletics but as a concert venue. It might be a white elephant but once it's gone, what will replace it? Olympic legacy my arse!
Beside that, Jess Ennis trains there!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-so ... e-21627003

Frank the tank

I totally agree with you mate.

The political cynic inside me says, have the Labour controlled council closed it in some perverse political manouveur to get at the coalition gov for cutting funding.

I'm not saying that is the case,but, it is the sort of thing that gets done.

xscreamsuk

Going to look awful for the TDF to finish on the road outside a derelict / demolished stadium. Also closing a leisure centre, typical pennies based decision. My daughter is upset cos it's where her school has sports days and she was looking forward to it.

Frank the tank

I heard on the news yesterday each seat was subsidised to the tune of £5/seat. A bargain when you consider how much some seats at the opera are subsidised by.

A cheap shot that, a country of our wealth should be able to support both facilities.

mamba80

Same down here, Cornwall CC want to close 1 of only 2 Athletics tracks in the county, to sell to a Supermarket - there is a huge Tescos just across the road.

the thing is, with any government - their kids, in the main, go to private schools with their own private facilities - so why would they give a monkeys?
At least whoever is in power, will be able to have a go at state schools come the next olympics, saying they dont produce enough medal winners

Why doesnt Jess E get off her arse, call a press conference and berate the government for allowing this to happen, get a few other sports stars in it as well and perhaps something may change......

tim_wand

Totally wrong decision, how can we talk about a sustainable legacy post olympics then allow closures like this.

Sheffield, is that not where Lord Seb Coe is from. Why is it that we cant subsidise anything unless its London Centric.

National opera got £17 million in Goverment grants last year, what did they achieve "found a new star for the Go compare ads" and inspired zero school kids.

As others have said, if your the member of a private health club , sending your own kids to the playing fields of Eton and Harrow, your hardly likely to suffer.

ben@31

Yes it is a shame. But there's two sides to every story... Who is going to pay to keep it open?

However in my own opinion, Surely once you've built a running track and a concrete stand it's there for years and it should no longer cost anything, I can't see what the expenditure is?

What is the running costs (excuse the pun)? I just need to occasionally buy a pair of trainers.

random man

ben@31 wrote:

Yes it is a shame. But there's two sides to every story... Who is going to pay to keep it open?

However in my own opinion, Surely once you've built a running track and a concrete stand it's there for years and it should no longer cost anything, I can't see what the expenditure is?

What is the running costs (excuse the pun)? I just need to occasionally buy a pair of trainers.

The maintenance on the stadium, staff costs, utilities etc. It won't look after itself, the grass would be 2' tall for a start!

I don't see why it has to be in the council's hands really, but unless it was profitable I don't see anyone else taking it on, hence the need for a subsidy from the lottery. I don't know where the next generation of Jess Ennises and Mo Farahs will come from without good facilities.

VTech

The answer is for government to change policies and allow corporate sponsorship of council owned venues and let businesses reap the rewards. In turn the stadium stays open.
But then I dont understand anything ?

team47b

I read that the running costs are £700,000 per annum, the original loan payments are £20 million per annum and it wont be paid for until 2024 long after it's gone!

EKIMIKE

VTech wrote:

The answer is for government to change policies and allow corporate sponsorship of council owned venues and let businesses reap the rewards. In turn the stadium stays open.
But then I dont understand anything ?

In a country where corporate bosses invest almost exclusively in theirs and their friends personal bank accounts then good luck trying to find sponsorship for this - a significant undertaking.

The more sensible option is a public/private partnership but the bigoted tw@ttery that exists between the public and private sector makes that kind of sensible solution difficult to attain.

And +1 for Ennis becoming the public voice in this - she would hold the most weight as a prospective advocate, as opposed to a squeeky voiced MP wearing a sh1t tie. Maybe she is doing something but the media aren;t interested. I doubt it though. She doesn't have to spend money, just talk.

Frank the tank

Tim Wand put his finger on it, it's not daughn sarf is it.

And no doubt in four years time the debate about how ex-public school athletes have won more medals than their state school educated counterparts.

What will they build on the stadium site, some kind of retail park full of fast food outlets? :evil:

Lookyhere

Some things need to funded centraly, its why we pay taxes

the local CC cant sustain a 50m budget cut and stil justify, pouring money into a athletics stadium.

Ennis needs to remember where she came from and become the voice for a change of heart, it wont effect her now, she can always move to the states - moaning on twatter wont get much publicity but a press photo shoot followed by a in-depth interview, putting cameron on the spot would.

VTech

EKIMIKE wrote:

VTech wrote:

The answer is for government to change policies and allow corporate sponsorship of council owned venues and let businesses reap the rewards. In turn the stadium stays open.
But then I dont understand anything ?

In a country where corporate bosses invest almost exclusively in theirs and their friends personal bank accounts then good luck trying to find sponsorship for this - a significant undertaking.

The more sensible option is a public/private partnership but the bigoted tw@ttery that exists between the public and private sector makes that kind of sensible solution difficult to attain.

And +1 for Ennis becoming the public voice in this - she would hold the most weight as a prospective advocate, as opposed to a squeeky voiced MP wearing a sh1t tie. Maybe she is doing something but the media aren;t interested. I doubt it though. She doesn't have to spend money, just talk.

On part I agree but there are many bosses who give locally and for local clubs/charities.

EKIMIKE

VTech wrote:

...there are many bosses who give locally and for local clubs/charities.

You're missing the point, again, aren't you. Whatever little anecdotes you have waiting, of small time donations made to small local clubs and charities are just a drop in the ocean compared to this.

This is another league all-together. To re-iterate £700,000 pounds running costs per annum and liabilities running into 2024. You gotta be joking if you think Donnies Home Plumbing Services donating £100 in return for a 2X10 trackside advertising board is going to sort this sh1t out. What a berk.

ben@31

random man wrote:

The maintenance on the stadium, staff costs, utilities etc. It won't look after itself, the grass would be 2' tall for a start!

I don't see why it has to be in the council's hands really, but unless it was profitable I don't see anyone else taking it on, hence the need for a subsidy from the lottery. I don't know where the next generation of Jess Ennises and Mo Farahs will come from without good facilities.

What maint, staff costs and utilities? £700,000 a year for cutting the grass is a bit steep.

When I take part in sport, such as entering a run I've have to pay to enter the event or I've paid subscriptions to a club I belonged to. I've had to pay for sports coaching / tuition. So if people are using this stadium how is it not financially viable?

Tom Butcher

It sounds like they are going to reopen another track in the city so in terms of a training facility there will be no change - I don't know if any locals know more that's just what I've read. If you take the figures the council are putting forward at face value - 700k a year vs 70k a year to run it - it does sound a bit like it was a mistake to build it in the first place.

VTech

EKIMIKE wrote:

VTech wrote:

...there are many bosses who give locally and for local clubs/charities.

You're missing the point, again, aren't you. Whatever little anecdotes you have waiting, of small time donations made to small local clubs and charities are just a drop in the ocean compared to this.

This is another league all-together. To re-iterate £700,000 pounds running costs per annum and liabilities running into 2024. You gotta be joking if you think Donnies Home Plumbing Services donating £100 in return for a 2X10 trackside advertising board is going to sort this sh1t out. What a berk.

You have to resort to abuse. It makes me laugh, you really have no idea of marketing costs ?
There are plenty of ways to get advertising in and revenue up. Also, you have to understand that they wouldn't need the full £700k, that's the total cost and what they spend.
Think about Walsall stadium, flat broke then get a marketing team in many moons ago and now runs at profit.
It can be done.

Either way, the council won't go for it.

tim_wand

700k a year I make that nearly a quarter of a century at 17 million poured into one year of national opera.

that's 5 Olympic games or one season of Italian warbling at Covent Garden. What do you want more Jess Eniss's or more Go Compares.

rolf_f

Tom Butcher wrote:

It sounds like they are going to reopen another track in the city so in terms of a training facility there will be no change - I don't know if any locals know more that's just what I've read. If you take the figures the council are putting forward at face value - 700k a year vs 70k a year to run it - it does sound a bit like it was a mistake to build it in the first place.

They are - there is another ground only a mile or so away (towards the city centre) - Woodburn Road. It's a pretty basic thing but it would clearly be vastly cheaper to run. Less facilities though.

tim wand wrote:

700k a year I make that nearly a quarter of a century at 17 million poured into one year of national opera.

that's 5 Olympic games or one season of Italian warbling at Covent Garden. What do you want more Jess Eniss's or more Go Compares.

You may have a future looking after the taxes of the rich and wealthy with that sort of creative accountancy......

Yellow Peril

A crying shame. Hardly the oldest facility in the world and you can't help but think that this is the tip of the iceberg.

I wonder what will happen to all of our new velodromes when cycling loses its hip and trendy status at some point in the future?

tim_wand

Rolf F wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

It sounds like they are going to reopen another track in the city so in terms of a training facility there will be no change - I don't know if any locals know more that's just what I've read. If you take the figures the council are putting forward at face value - 700k a year vs 70k a year to run it - it does sound a bit like it was a mistake to build it in the first place.

They are - there is another ground only a mile or so away (towards the city centre) - Woodburn Road. It's a pretty basic thing but it would clearly be vastly cheaper to run. Less facilities though.

tim wand wrote:

700k a year I make that nearly a quarter of a century at 17 million poured into one year of national opera.

that's 5 Olympic games or one season of Italian warbling at Covent Garden. What do you want more Jess Eniss's or more Go Compares.

I m not saying that 5 Olympics would cost £17 Million, I doubt I d get 5 events in one games for that. But in One year £17 million in subsidies from Government went to National opera.

At £700,000 a year running costs that £17 million could susbsidise Don Valley for over 24 years or over 5 olympic cycles.

Surely as budgets are getting striped to pay back and minimise national debt, we the electorate should get some say on what goes and what stays, a simple on line petition or poll would suffice.

I dont know too many people who would vote to subsidise the National Opera for one year rather than keep Don Valley or any atheletics facility viable for 25 years, do you?

You may have a future looking after the taxes of the rich and wealthy with that sort of creative accountancy......

VTech

Does the opera really get that much in handouts and if so, is the handouts being cut inane with other facilities ?

EKIMIKE

VTech wrote:

You have to resort to abuse. It makes me laugh, you really have no idea of marketing costs [Don't you mean revenues?] ?
There are plenty of ways to get advertising in and revenue up. Also, you have to understand that they wouldn't need the full £700k, that's the total cost and what they spend.

Now you're talking more sense - this is clearly not a local club or charity - it requires some serious backing.

For me there are such huge financial liabilities with this thing, private backers are going to be reluctant to take a risk. If the Council remain as part of a private-public partnership it takes the heat out of the risk because ultimately if it goes balls up the buck will stop with the Council whilst the private backers flee.

It's interesting that you mention the Bescot Stadium because as far as I can tell (correct me if i'm wrong - you will no-doubt know more than me about this), the private backers have been repeatedly trying to sell it to the Council since 2008.

VTech

I am not sure why but maybe the reason for that could be due to what you have just written about liability ?

EKIMIKE

Probably. Sponsorship always boils down to a cost-benefit analysis, i.e. risk.

To attract sponsorship the Council need to act as the back-stop, making it seem less risky, which is no different to their position now. Ennis can be the star sympathy generator making investors feel all warm and fuzzy and 'socially-responsible'.

Still nothing from Ennis? Just stock footage of her jogging? Oh well, the money will stay in London then.

random man

According to BBC news Jess Ennis is going to train at Loughborough, which may be a better base for a pro athlete, but I don't expect her to be holding a vigil outside Don Valley.

VTech

I think CC's can do more than they are and without additional costs. My earlier posts were in view of what has happened local to me where they have taken a perfectly great area and destroyed it through stupidity.
I was working near the channel tunnel yesterday and the local council have given a new business a great stepping stone of support by offering a 1200sqft unit to a guy for £325/month and £1200 rates locked for 6 years, This is to rejuvenate the local area and bring business in which is exactly what has happened. This is common sense, whereas destruction of areas breeds crime and waste which is what is happening all over the UK.
It isnt all doom and gloom, there is hope if common sense is used.

rodgers73

There are facilities available down the road. Athletes dont need 10,000 seats surrounding them to train. Sheffield has bigger priorities than helping the nation get a big ego boost from winning a nice shiny medal. Perspective please!

mamba80

rodgers73 wrote:

There are facilities available down the road. Athletes dont need 10,000 seats surrounding them to train. Sheffield has bigger priorities than helping the nation get a big ego boost from winning a nice shiny medal. Perspective please!

that is true but Athletes need venues to hold competitions in and attract more sponsors and more competitors and how long will that venue be around ? (and its currently closed down, to save money!!!!)
eg the uk school games get held there very often, so if all councils take your advice, where will the future stars of tomo train and compete?

but i guess your comment could equally apply to "Cyclists dont need a Velodrome, train on the road and travel to Newport or Manchester"

rodgers73

Its been there for years and hardly ever hosts athletics events. When it does it fails to sell out. Its only the Princess Jessica connection that is drawing any attention to this. Sheffield Council has more important things to spend money on today than vaguely assisting athletes tomorrow.