Common issues related to poor KNEE TRACKING ?

Raffles

Ive seen tour pros and amateurs whose legs track straight up and down like two pistons. In my case , my left leg tracks straight as a rush whilst my right leg flicks the knee outwards at the top of the pedalstroke. My seat height is correct and at this time Im using shimano spd pedals. No matter what adjustments I make to the cleat in the right shoe my right knee still flicks outwards.

What are the usual causes of poor knee tracking causing a knee to flick outwards , bear in mind that my left leg tracks very straight.

Froomes Edgar

Do you have a bank of preposterous questions that you post on here, or do you make them up on the hoof?

Raffles

Froomes Edgar wrote:

Do you have a bank of preposterous questions that you post on here, or do you make them up on the hoof?

why dont you contribute or do me a favour and sod off

Anybody else got any knee tracking info they could share ?

sungod

possible causes include...

lack of arch support
foot angle needs correcting
leg length difference and/or other body asymmetry placing hips at an angle

...these can occur in combination

uncorrected it might lead to knee problems, or might be fine

consider seeing a physio who understands cycling and will be able to sort out any becessary correction (shims, wedges, footbeds etc.), or a bike fitter who has the capability (not all do)

Sussed out

Poor gluteal activation can cause your knee to go inwards. Do things like glute bridges, clams, side steps if you have a weak Theraband or can get hold of one. Google those exercises if you don't know what they are.
Hope that helps

ShutUpLegs

What size waist are you?

imposter2.0

unless it is actually causing you problems, I wouldn't worry about it.

desweller

Froomes Edgar wrote:

Do you have a bank of preposterous questions that you post on here, or do you make them up on the hoof?

Bonkers, isn't he?

Cleat Eastwood

Raffles wrote:

Froomes Edgar wrote:

Do you have a bank of preposterous questions that you post on here, or do you make them up on the hoof?

why dont you contribute or do me a favour and sod off

Anybody else got any knee tracking info they could share ?

Raffles - best to ignore him, he used to log on as P_Tucker - he was the forums resident arsehole, seems a name change hasnt changed anything at all.

Anyway - I get a pain in my right thigh, and i tried everything from cleat position to saddle height to affect it. After a sportive there were some physios on hand and I asked them about it. Turns out my right leg has issues with what you call knee tracking. The guy had me do squats and he could see the knee going out - if you do squats in front of a mirror you see the knee track one way or the other.

The guy said it was a natural thing, most knees track just in some the tracking is more evident. This was the cause of my pain, as one muscle was working harder to pull the knee back to its central position.

He had me sit on a bench, legs out stretched and push the 'troubled' leg into the bench, when I did this he asked to feel the muscles around the knee, and sure enough one was tighenting a fraction of a second before the other. I was told that it isnt an issue in everday life, but over 4-5 hours repetition it could cause pain.

As above shims were mentioned as a 'solution' but this may not be for everyone.

Thats my knee tale - but as I was told, everybodys knee tracks in some small way, just in some its more noticeable - so if it doesnt cause you problems - carry on and enjoy all life has to offer.

Raffles

ShutUpLegs wrote:

What size waist are you?

what relevance is that ? :roll:

can you please please please contribute something useful for once and quit being so irritating, you just arent funny.

please just contribute something that assists for once in your entire life.

Raffles

"Raffles - best to ignore him, he used to log on as P_Tucker - he was the forums resident arsehole, seems a name change hasnt changed anything at all."


Yes I agree, I doubt that jerk has a friend in the entire world , such a smug irritating to$$er with nothing useful to say about anything and just posts here to annoy people.

Sorry to say I let him get to me, heres hoping he falls down a toilet and somebody pulls the chain.

Raffles

Imposter wrote:

unless it is actually causing you problems, I wouldn't worry about it.

I was at a chiropractor last week who said that the right hand side of my pelvis was slightly misaligned whilst the left side was spot on, I wonder could that slight misslignment be in some way contributory for the sticking outwards of my right knee. Got another chiro session booked to work on bringing the pelvis back into line.

imposter2.0

Raffles wrote:

Imposter wrote:

unless it is actually causing you problems, I wouldn't worry about it.

I was at a chiropractor last week who said that the right hand side of my pelvis was slightly misaligned whilst the left side was spot on, I wonder could that slight misslignment be in some way contributory for the sticking outwards of my right knee. Got another chiro session booked to work on bringing the pelvis back into line.

Like I said - unless it is actually causing problems for you , I wouldn't worry about it. Google some pics of Sean Yates' riding position and bike setup - that should put your mind at rest.

Brakeless

Raffles wrote:

Imposter wrote:

unless it is actually causing you problems, I wouldn't worry about it.

I was at a chiropractor last week who said that the right hand side of my brain was slightly misaligned whilst the left side was well f*cked, I wonder could that slight misslignment be in some way contributory for the fact that I'm crap on a bike so try to think up stupid reasons as to why.

:twisted:

Raffles

Brakeless wrote:

Raffles wrote:

Imposter wrote:

unless it is actually causing you problems, I wouldn't worry about it.

I was at a chiropractor last week who said that a complete tool going by the name Brakeless would mess around with text I had postedwhilst thinking he was hilarious and that the rest of the entire board thought he was a complete nob who could be hanging onto a clifftop by his fingernails and they still wouldnt help .

:twisted:

Raffles

AND SADLY YET ANOTHER BIKERADAR THREAD GOES DOWN THE GUTTER , THIS JUST MIGHT BE THE WORST FORUM IN THE WORLD YOU KNOW



some great posters with useful things to say and advice to give, but let down by arseholes who can make using this site so irritating and very unpleasant indeed.

VTech raised a very valid point in his thread about this circumstance.

slowmart

I had the same issue which was highlighted by video at a bike fit session.

In my case i tried self correction by concentrating on keeping my knee in line. Which just shifted a no pain/poor efficiency outcome and replacing it with back ache!

Wedges in shoes has been mentioned which helped but the underlying cause in my case was a tight thigh muscle. The technician gave me some exercises, one of which meant placing my body weight, thigh on a roller and rolling the muscle upwards. Yes it's painful but it does alleviate the issue.

Raffles

Slowmart wrote:

I had the same issue which was highlighted by video at a bike fit session.

In my case i tried self correction by concentrating on keeping my knee in line. Which just shifted a no pain/poor efficiency outcome and replacing it with back ache!

Wedges in shoes has been mentioned which helped but the underlying cause in my case was a tight thigh muscle. The technician gave me some exercises, one of which meant placing my body weight, thigh on a roller and rolling the muscle upwards. Yes it's painful but it does alleviate the issue.

Now that is extremely poignant slowmart. :!:

My right quad muscle group has been real tight recently and ive been doing loads of quad and hip flexor stretching to try and help. Have you found the foam roller completely freed up the tightness for you and how did it affect the knee tracking issues ?

imposter2.0

Raffles wrote:

Now that is extremely poignant slowmart. :!:

Poignant ?

Raffles

Raffles wrote:

AND SADLY YET ANOTHER BIKERADAR THREAD GOES DOWN THE GUTTER , THIS JUST MIGHT BE THE WORST FORUM IN THE WORLD YOU KNOW



some great posters with useful things to say and advice to give, but let down by arseholes who can make using this site so irritating and very unpleasant indeed.

VTech raised a very valid point in his thread about this circumstance.

Imposter...................please read these comments.

imposter2.0

Raffles wrote:

Raffles wrote:

AND SADLY YET ANOTHER BIKERADAR THREAD GOES DOWN THE GUTTER , THIS JUST MIGHT BE THE WORST FORUM IN THE WORLD YOU KNOW



some great posters with useful things to say and advice to give, but let down by arseholes who can make using this site so irritating and very unpleasant indeed.

VTech raised a very valid point in his thread about this circumstance.

Imposter...................please read these comments.

Ok, done that. I think I'm still missing the poignancy though...

slowmart

Raffles wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

I had the same issue which was highlighted by video at a bike fit session.

In my case i tried self correction by concentrating on keeping my knee in line. Which just shifted a no pain/poor efficiency outcome and replacing it with back ache!

Wedges in shoes has been mentioned which helped but the underlying cause in my case was a tight thigh muscle. The technician gave me some exercises, one of which meant placing my body weight, thigh on a roller and rolling the muscle upwards. Yes it's painful but it does alleviate the issue.

Now that is extremely poignant slowmart. :!:

My right quad muscle group has been real tight recently and ive been doing loads of quad and hip flexor stretching to try and help. Have you found the foam roller completely freed up the tightness for you and how did it affect the knee tracking issues ?

My pedalling action has improved and the knee position isn't so pronounced. Thats according to a mate who I do the most riding with. The thigh is much looser and the rolling seems to have broken the knots in the muscle. It's a work in progress and I have some additional exercises to do and i'm heading in the right direction.

It's not a quick fix, maybe if I cut my mileage down progress would be quicker but I'd rather have incremental improvement rather than knocking the riding down. So as long as the improvements are there I'm inclined to leave it.

xixang

I have a knee tracking problem that I ignored as at the time it didn't bother me. Now I get a pain behind the knee whenever I ride for more than around an hour. Had a recent bike fit to try and sort it and it was suggested the pain is the result of the tracking problem. Suggestion was to visit a physio who had cycling specific knowledge and expertise. Luckily there is one around 15 miles away who's dealt with a few biggish names in the past, so gonna book in. Bike fit guy suggested wedges/shims but couldn't provide them himself

desweller

Did you go for a bike fit in the end?

Raffles

Slowmart wrote:

Raffles wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

My pedalling action has improved and the knee position isn't so pronounced. Thats according to a mate who I do the most riding with. The thigh is much looser and the rolling seems to have broken the knots in the muscle. It's a work in progress and I have some additional exercises to do and i'm heading in the right direction.

It's not a quick fix, maybe if I cut my mileage down progress would be quicker but I'd rather have incremental improvement rather than knocking the riding down. So as long as the improvements are there I'm inclined to leave it.

Ive been doing nightly hip flexor and quad stretching exercises , are you saying the breaking down of the tightness in quads is a gradual step by step process ? I never used to have this tightness before and strangely enough it only reared its head after the retul bike fitter pushed my saddle backwards by about 7mm......hmmmmmmmm :?

slowmart

Raffles wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

Raffles wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

My pedalling action has improved and the knee position isn't so pronounced. Thats according to a mate who I do the most riding with. The thigh is much looser and the rolling seems to have broken the knots in the muscle. It's a work in progress and I have some additional exercises to do and i'm heading in the right direction.

It's not a quick fix, maybe if I cut my mileage down progress would be quicker but I'd rather have incremental improvement rather than knocking the riding down. So as long as the improvements are there I'm inclined to leave it.

Ive been doing nightly hip flexor and quad stretching exercises , are you saying the breaking down of the tightness in quads is a gradual step by step process ?

I haven't a clue!

The bike fit technician gave me these exercises and after four weeks I still feel the need to use the rollers. My muscle is looser and the condition is much better. That said my mileage is edging towards 130 miles a week which means muscle recovery is limited and means i'm inclined to keep on using the roller.

My mileage and fitness is going upwards and my pedalling action is improving while at the moment I'm pain free.

The tightness in my muscle was explained as small knots within the muscle and while painful there were two options I had. Massage or rollers. Both are painful but I opted for rollers as I perceived them to be more flexible. Once when I get up and once before I go to bed and after a demanding ride. Over time the pain diminishes, now is this a result of the knots being dissipated? I'd like to think so which is why I try to keep on top of the condition.

Anonymous

I had quite acute pain on the outside of my knee due to a tight IT Band. I am purely speculating here as I know nothing about physiology but it could be at the stages were your IT Band quads are quite knotted/tight that it is pulling your knee out.

Try a foam roller (I have a ludicriously overpriced one with dimples) and roll your quads on it with your whole bodyweight (i.e lying on your side). Make sure you breathe deeply and properly (the pain will make you gasp!).

A hard tennisball is a reasonable substitute.

If you can target knots in your legs (particularly above the knee) to knead out the tightness, this may help?

The foam roller and developing better leg muscles (stronger quads) has helped significantly and now I don't really use the roller and no longer get any pain. My physio said to me - its like brushing your teeth - you can expect to never brush them and for them to be white...muscles are no different - stretch and warm down etc. Soft tissue maintenance!

Froomes Edgar

Raffles wrote:

Imposter wrote:

unless it is actually causing you problems, I wouldn't worry about it.

I was at a chiropractor last week who said that the right hand side of my pelvis was slightly misaligned whilst the left side was spot on, I wonder could that slight misslignment be in some way contributory for the sticking outwards of my right knee. Got another chiro session booked to work on bringing the pelvis back into line.

Chiropractor? FFS, you might as well get your astrologist to give you an opinion

Fursty Ferret

Whatever it is, it's quite poignant. Or maybe it's pertinent. One of the two

OP, I ski'd into a tree years ago. Smashed up my left knee. I now seem to flick it outwards when I cycle. Absolutely nothing I can do about it but then again I had never noticed until someone riding behind me pointed it out.

Kevo27

I have/had the same problem, my right knee doesn't move in the piston type fashion as my left, i went and had a bike fit done and this was discussed with the tech, i now have shims under the cleats to help with the issue, i went out on the bike and done around 50mile, felt a lot comfier on the bike and both legs are going in the piston type fashion as i was being observed from behind, however i am now having pain in the outside edge of my right foot, i will keep monitoring as i may need some tweaking.

jouxplan

Hmmmm, this thread seems a little all over the place. Shame.

Anyway, for my part, I would say that the OP has asked a very 'large' question. There are many, many possible reasons for poor knee tracking. They fall into various categories:

1. Poor bike fit - saddle height and saddle fore-aft, saddle not straight
2. Poor cleat positioning - angle, fore-aft, stance
3. Poor foot - shoe interface - arch support, heel support, wedges
4. Physiology - one leg shorter than other; one ankle unstable, over / under-pronation, twisted or wonky pelvis etc
5. Injury - one leg functionally shorter than the other (ie it perhaps has a huge heel drop), poor pelvis alignment etc

So the question cannot realy be answered very easily. All these aspects need looking into. I speak from 6 years of bike fit hell - visiting 6 sets of bike fitters in UK and USA in an attempt to solve my wonky knee and wonky ankle problem. No one solved it until very recently. The solution was actually complex. It required an osteopath to sort out my misaligned pelvis (and I submit that he would be mighty unimpressed to be compared to an astrologist ) And it required a bike fitter who really knew his stuff (Steve Hogg and The Bike Whisperer). I ended up with a radically lower saddle position (25mm lower than my previous 30 years), tons of arch support, cleats way back on the shoe, wedges and shims. And a lot of hard work, experimentation and tweaking myself.

I am way stronger than I used to be on the bike, more powerful and fluid through the stroke. It is truly wonderful. My knee still has a slight wobble, but it is so, so much better.

If I were you, the first step would be to see a good bike fitter. You may also need an osteopath. I don't think you need an astrologer though :P