Descending....please help
speshyalex
Posts: 62
Hi,I've recently bought a road bike after doing a fair bit of mtb xc.I've done about 4 big rides and done a few hours on the turbo and am loving it,though descents scare me as anything over 30mph I develop a speed wobble .I dont know whether I'm just to tense or I'm not getting in a "aero" enough position,I 'm not overly confident on the drops,I usually ride low on the hoods.Advice welcome please.
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Any kind of technical descending should be done on the drops. If you have trouble reaching them you should adjust your fit. There are loads of tutorials on descending:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=road+bike+descending0 -
Can be quite a scare, especially if you used to MTB bikes.
Speed wobble is quite a funny one with no one cause (that people can agree on) but its unlikely that your none aero position is the cause.
BR did a section this a while ago though is still relevant - http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... ble-14776/
Must admit on my first few rides I too struggled with steep downhills & tended to hold my body really stiff and try to control the bars covering the breaks. However after I while I got used to the bike and how it rides and generally loosened up and gained more confidence then was able to ride even faster.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Descents still scare the heck out of me but I am getting better. I'm always thinking of myself hitting the road and how it's going to feel. Quite irrational I know. I just try to make myself relax and stop feathering the brakes and go with the flow. All a matter of confidence, competence and experience. Never had speed wobble cos I never let myself go fast enough! I suppose if you get this at 30 and above then why not ride at 29?0
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Now I dont claim to know a great deal about road bikes, but my first port of call would be the bike, or more specifically the rims. Are they straight and true?0
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It's practice, when you're nervous you tense and that transmits right through the bike, making the bike feel nervous. Just practice and it will come, try to stay relaxed on the bike, in the drops so weight over the front wheel.0
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Mikey23 wrote:I'm always thinking of myself hitting the road and how it's going to feel.
Usually more painful on the wallet than the body0 -
No expert on descents here - and a bit nervous on fast ones to boot. But the most important thing is to relax your body - even if everything is telling you to tense up.
Speed wobbles - only had one and it wasn't nice. One thing to try and get out of it, is to clamp your knees against the top tube.0 -
Why?MajorMantra wrote:Any kind of technical descending should be done on the drops. If you have trouble reaching them you should adjust your fit. There are loads of tutorials on descending:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=road+bike+descending
Thats like saying climbing should be done out of the saddle?
I do vast majority of my descending on the hoods technical or not, just feel more relaxed and in control. Each to their own I guess.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:
Why?MajorMantra wrote:Any kind of technical descending should be done on the drops. If you have trouble reaching them you should adjust your fit. There are loads of tutorials on descending:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=road+bike+descending
Thats like saying climbing should be done out of the saddle?
I do vast majority of my descending on the hoods technical or not, just feel more relaxed and in control. Each to their own I guess.
It is just one of those things that gets said, you normally get better braking and are slightly more aero in the drops, but you'll also have your weight further forward and less balanced.
with little rubber on the road, being smooth is the key, no death grips! plus a bit of forward thinking.
ie is hill safe to travel at speed? could some one step out of their house? and such what if's. Stopping once your above 30mph/48kph takes a remarkable time and distance even on nice dry roads...0 -
try hovering slightly above the seat but not actually sitting, for 1 your legs will absorb bumps not the bike and give you a smoother ride and 2 your center of gravity will be lower making things a lot more stable.ribble sportive for the black stuff
Canyon Strive AL 8.0 for the brown and green stuff.0 -
Never ever brake too suddenly too hard when going downhill! Gradual steady braking to slow down. Panic = disaster!0
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I find another reason to use the drops rather than the hoods is that it can be easy to throw your hands off the hoods if the descent is bumpy.0
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...to the OP, you should not be getting any sort of "speed wobble" at 30mph, you have to address this as it could be indicative of something more serious with the bike. You say its a recent purchase, take it back to the shop, describe to them the wobble and get them to check it out.0
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Another tip is don't look at the tarmack right infront of you or along the way - you will hit all those little bumps you're trying to avoid, don't look in the direction the bike is going (a really hard one!) - trying to turn the corner when you're bike hasn't made the turn and is still in the direction of the hedge, and you look at the hedge you will hit it. Only ever look at your exits - which should change constantly, and only for moving items which you will want to avoid which you acknowledge once with a proper look - but don't stare at these, you will hit them - and eyes straight back to your chosen exit on the road.
I spent about three weeks cycling in a park going round in circles trying to fine tune this. I practiced by going round in circles, with my head facing the middle of the circle but not the direction of where the bike was going. Practice does make a huge difference.
Mx0 -
stifflersmom wrote:I find another reason to use the drops rather than the hoods is that it can be easy to throw your hands off the hoods if the descent is bumpy.
If that's really a problem, then your doing something really quite wrong, most likely a death grip! Let the bike move under you and look ahead for your line.0 -
IME it makes complete sense to use the drops when descending. As already mentioned you can break better from there, you have more control from there and you are less likely to loose grip if the road surface is not the best.
This does not mean that you can not do it by using the hoods, it is simply more suitable to use the drops.
This is not to derride anyone elses techniques or experiences, simply based on my experience. Also look at how the pros do it, the majority will use the drops and they should be the role models for technique not any of us internet experts.
To the OP - you need to relax your upper body (and I would say use the drops) and look at where you want the bike to go. If you feel you are going too quick then use the brakes (but only when going straight) to control your speed. Don't drag the brake, apply the brakes to scrub speed and the release (you can do this as often as required).
Also look ahead as far as you can (not at the tarmac directly in front of you) as this allows you to anticipate and read the road.
A great technique to use approaching/in bends is to use either side of the road as a marker (still looking as far ahead as possible) - if the kerbs (or grass verge or walls or whatever) are getting closer together you need to slow down, if they open apart or stay parallel you can go quicker.
Scrub speed before you need to turn and keep looking at where you want to be.
None of this needs to be done in one go or at significant speed, just practise at a comfortable speed until you get comfy.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
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High speed wobble may be a basic flaw of the bike. Now that forks are commodity items, they just fit The Fork to every bike. It may not work with the frame angles. I changed forks and the bike went from a solid descender to a flighty one.
Learn to pick a good "racing line". Learn when not to use the racing line.
Beware of blind corners with oncoming vehicle cutting into your lane. Moderate your speed to the conditions, don't forget that pro-racers get the road to themselves.0 -
Yes watch the pros and listen to them. The point at which more control may be needed is through the bend where many use the drops, but to say it is more aero is not actually true, if you losten to MAggie on sky commentatting he mentioned a couple of times it has been tested and proven to be more aero with hands on middle of bars with head down or over bars, this is the position most use to gain speed on fast stretches but would obviously not go round bend on those positions.smidsy wrote:IME it makes complete sense to use the drops when descending. As already mentioned you can break better from there, you have more control from there and you are less likely to loose grip if the road surface is not the best.
This does not mean that you can not do it by using the hoods, it is simply more suitable to use the drops.
This is not to derride anyone elses techniques or experiences, simply based on my experience. Also look at how the pros do it, the majority will use the drops and they should be the role models for technique not any of us internet experts.
To the OP - you need to relax your upper body (and I would say use the drops) and look at where you want the bike to go. If you feel you are going too quick then use the brakes (but only when going straight) to control your speed. Don't drag the brake, apply the brakes to scrub speed and the release (you can do this as often as required).
Also look ahead as far as you can (not at the tarmac directly in front of you) as this allows you to anticipate and read the road.
A great technique to use approaching/in bends is to use either side of the road as a marker (still looking as far ahead as possible) - if the kerbs (or grass verge or walls or whatever) are getting closer together you need to slow down, if they open apart or stay parallel you can go quicker.
Scrub speed before you need to turn and keep looking at where you want to be.
None of this needs to be done in one go or at significant speed, just practise at a comfortable speed until you get comfy.
As for breaking, if you really think you need to be on the drops to break efficient then you either have not got uour breaks set up correctly or not very good riding
You should not really break in a corner, which is when your liekly to be on drops more, and you should not break hard on a descent either as this can cause speed wobble, its best to feather the breaks before a bend to shave off speed rather than death breaking just before or during a bend.
As for more stable on bumpy conditions, again thats not true, if you hold too tight it is worse than a lighter grip on bars which actually dampens the uneven road. Hopw do you ride over a cattle grid? Most riders ease grip on bars and raise out of saddle, this evens out or damps the bumps. try ridning over a grid holding baRS TIGHT And sat in saddle and tell me how it feels? 0 -
I never said anything about more aero.
I never said brake in the corners.
I never said hold tight.
Regarding braking - it's physics, don't blame me. Leverage.
Feathering breaks on long descents is not a good idea.
Regarding bumby conditions, it's not about the level of grip you have it is about having lots of bar to hold onto if your hands get jolted. On the hoods this becomes less so.
Anyway as I said it does not mean you can not use the hoods, simply that IME and evidence at large it is generally considered better for most to be in the drops. Obviously you prefer the hoods. (are you black)
OP you need to experiment and see what is best for you.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
smidsy wrote:IME it makes complete sense to use the drops when descending. As already mentioned you can break better from there, you have more control from there and you are less likely to loose grip if the road surface is not the best.
This does not mean that you can not do it by using the hoods, it is simply more suitable to use the drops.
This is not to derride anyone elses techniques or experiences, simply based on my experience. Also look at how the pros do it, the majority will use the drops and they should be the role models for technique not any of us internet experts.
To the OP - you need to relax your upper body (and I would say use the drops) and look at where you want the bike to go. If you feel you are going too quick then use the brakes (but only when going straight) to control your speed. Don't drag the brake, apply the brakes to scrub speed and the release (you can do this as often as required).
Also look ahead as far as you can (not at the tarmac directly in front of you) as this allows you to anticipate and read the road.
A great technique to use approaching/in bends is to use either side of the road as a marker (still looking as far ahead as possible) - if the kerbs (or grass verge or walls or whatever) are getting closer together you need to slow down, if they open apart or stay parallel you can go quicker.
Scrub speed before you need to turn and keep looking at where you want to be.
None of this needs to be done in one go or at significant speed, just practise at a comfortable speed until you get comfy.
The technique you talk about is called the vanishing point and its not based on grass verges or walls, that would be a recipe for disaster as the road might be going one way but the wall might be going another. If he followed this advice he could be killed, nice one Smids.
What you need to watch out for 'based' on what Smids is trying to say, is watch the vanishing point. The vanishing point when approaching a bend is where the very point of the road end, and this is based on the edges or kerbs of the road. If you look into the bend the kerbs on either side of the road meet at a set point depending on how the bend is moving. If that point where they meet is going away from you as you start to go into the bend it means the road around the bend is moving away, therefore the bend isnt sharp.
If the point where they meet is coming forward and towards you it means the bend is tightening up and is quite sharp.
If the point where the two kerbs meet stays in the same position around the bend it means the bend is consistent.
This gauge is used by pro motorbike teams as well, they use it to train riders on circuits they havent ridden on before. So just remember the 3 vanishing point rules and you cant go wrong, always go by the point, not by grass verges, fences or walls as they can be positioned at different angles to the road and going off on different angles themselves, so if you followed Smids advice you would probably end up in someones back garden or worse, over the bonnet of a car.
Good luck.0 -
@EPO - Luckily not everyone takes things as literal as you. Obviously I was trying to describe what the defining sides of the road may be, as they do not always have kerbs. But if discrediting me is that important to you then so be it.
Edit: Having re-read this tonight I must also add...nice over dramatisation...you will be killed etc. FFS! :roll:Yellow is the new Black.0 -
..all this debate is well and good, but it all the technique in the world wont prevent a "speed wobble" if caused by some fault with the bike.
Maybe the OP could elaborate on this "speed wobble" - while you can expect some bumps and shakes from an uneven road surface and maybe a bit of pressure from cross winds, a bike should be perfectly stable even at much higher speeds.
While you do hear of "sympathetic vibration" in bikes, this is rare (though it does sound terrifying!) and usually at much higher speeds than 30mph.
I can only repeat what I said before, get the bike checked out.0 -
You don't always want to descend on the drops ...
Riding on the drops is more aero than riding on the hoods - but if you're looking to scrub speed then sitting higher and presenting more of your body to the air will take off a significant amount of speed ...
This isn't just theory - it's fact - I've even tested it - on one hill I ride most days I can scrub ~5mph off just by sitting up (depends on wind direction & temperature too) ...
Saves the pads and rims!0 -
roger merriman wrote:stifflersmom wrote:I find another reason to use the drops rather than the hoods is that it can be easy to throw your hands off the hoods if the descent is bumpy.
If that's really a problem, then your doing something really quite wrong, most likely a death grip! Let the bike move under you and look ahead for your line.
Nope, I agree - hands on the hoods far less secure. Always get in the drops if I sense I might need to brake sharply, means you can brace yourself behind the bar and get your arse over the back wheel to keep your weight back. I have a mate who rides almost exclusively on the hoods and the number of times he has gone over the bars when having to brake for suicide peds, whereas I tend to emergency stop, rear wheel goes a foot in the air but at least I stay upright!0 -
If the OP has a wobble at 30mph then there is something wrong that cannot be easily diagnosed on the Internet, nuances of descending style are not the issue. It's a not uncommon speed on slight gradients especially with a tail wind.
I'd say, back to the bike shop and get it checked out.
Paul0 -
paul2718 wrote:If the OP has a wobble at 30mph then there is something wrong that cannot be easily diagnosed on the Internet, nuances of descending style are not the issue. It's a not uncommon speed on slight gradients especially with a tail wind.
I'd say, back to the bike shop and get it checked out.
Paul
...thank you, Paul, agreed! I've given up trying to point this out!0 -
Thanks for the advice everyone, I will look at the bike but I think this a mental issue.I will try to get more confident on the drops.0
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Have you got a cycling mate who could test it ?0
