Single Speed Training

redpat1
redpat1 Posts: 54
edited February 2013 in Training, fitness and health
Hi Guys
I have recently been using my old pompino single speed for rides of about an hour. Although I often have to either peddle like mad or Crawl up steep or long inclines after about an hour or so and I am on my knees. Do any of you guys ride a single speed for training at all and if so is it effective in terms of improving fitness and strength? it certainly feels like it even though I cant cover the kind of distance I usually cover on my geared bike in the same time period, usually 60-90 minutes of continuous and strenuous effort.(no laughing). Although of course I can ride my regular bike for much longer periods of time.

Thanks again for any words of wisdom.

Pat
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Comments

  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    Riding a singlespeed bike is good training for riding a singlespeed bike.
    Riding a geared bike is good training for riding a geared bike.
  • barry_kellett99
    barry_kellett99 Posts: 480
    Depends on a lot of things, but essentially there is nothing extra to be achieved riding singlespeed that cannot be achieved while riding a regular multi geared bike.

    Prior to training properly and actually thinking about what I was doing on my rides, I found singlespeed to be a great solution to increasing fitness. Now that I am focussed on training with more specificity and thinking about what I am trying to achieve, It is more of a hindrance.

    I still ride fixed for a few months between the end of my XC season and through the winter while still racing CX, but since the start of the year I have spent very little time on it.

    If you're a lazy geared rider, who doesn't know what or how they should be training, with limited time, blasting an hour or two hard on a SS of fixed road bike could well be a decent approach to take.
    http://teammaxbo.blogspot.com/

    Long live the pompino
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    You can get the strength benefits on a geared bike simply by leaving it in a higher gear for longer when you tackle a hill.

    If you ride SS because you like it then that's fine but you won't get any training benefit from it that you couldn't achive on a geared bike. If there was any advantage in SS then the pros would use them and they don't except if they do any track training.

    Will the extra standing on the pedals and muscling the SS up the hills do you any harm? No idea. I guess if your knees and back are up to it you'll be OK
  • RowCycle
    RowCycle Posts: 367
    Although if you're lazy the SS forces you to keep riding for the duration (if fixed) where as the a geard bike does not.
  • redpat1
    redpat1 Posts: 54
    Time is always at a premium and if I only have an hour or two max a blast on the SS seems to be enough to satisfy the need to get some action in the legs. I understand that you can mash a geared bike in a higher gear but with the SS you dont have the option of changing down.
    I do really enjoy the SS though, it feels almost like a grass roots experience if you know what I mean.lol.
  • barry_kellett99
    barry_kellett99 Posts: 480
    Well if you are more motivated to beast yourself on the SS on rides when you can get out then that is an extra plus point for it, motivation.
    http://teammaxbo.blogspot.com/

    Long live the pompino
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    It doesnt really sound like you know what you're training for?
  • redpat1
    redpat1 Posts: 54
    edited February 2013
    styxd wrote:
    It doesnt really sound like you know what you're training for?
    Ha Ha, you are right there. I have always been involved with with heavy weights and combat sports but due to a long term illness (i am fine now) I am unable to follow these pursuits and way of life any longer. So I guess it is just an outlet for my aggression, frustration and is helping me return to some form of fitness at the same time.
    The reason of joining this forum is that I have started to enjoy cycling on a more than casual level and want to try and figure out where to go from here! any suggestions?
    I might have to start a new thread with that question I guess.


    Pat
  • cyco2
    cyco2 Posts: 593
    One of the best workouts I did once was a 72" 10mile TT. It was flat, I kept spinning out and my breathing rate was very high. Nowhere days though that is know as HIT so SS does have it's attribute s. I spent a winter pushing a 72" fixed and when I got back on the geared bike I was absolute shyte. It took some time to adjust to gear effort again. I knew I'd never do that again.
    ...................................................................................................

    If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
    However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    twotyred wrote:
    You can get the strength benefits on a geared bike simply by leaving it in a higher gear for longer when you tackle a hill.

    You can get the same strength benefits by leaving your bike in the garage and eating Doritos in front of the TV. That is to say, there are no strength benefits.
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    If it allows me to apply high force to the pedals for longer I call that a strength benefit. If you want to to be pedantic and call it something else then fine.
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    twotyred wrote:
    If it allows me to apply high force to the pedals for longer I call that a strength benefit. If you want to to be factually accurate and call it something else then fine.

    FTFY
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    :roll: :roll:
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    Roll your eyes all you like - you're wrong, I'm right. You will not increase your strength by being in a slightly higher gear.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Froomes Edgar wrote:
    Roll your eyes all you like - you're wrong, I'm right. You will not increase your strength by being in a slightly higher gear.

    As a method to strengthen muscles it has been used for decades. Now, I know that all was done in the past was rubbish and only high cadence low gear works, but this method has won many champions many races, so there is not much to laugh about... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Froomes Edgar wrote:
    Roll your eyes all you like - you're wrong, I'm right. You will not increase your strength by being in a slightly higher gear.

    As a method to strengthen muscles it has been used for decades. Now, I know that all was done in the past was rubbish and only high cadence low gear works, but this method has won many champions many races, so there is not much to laugh about... :wink:

    They didn't win races because their legs were stronger. They won because they were fitter.

    As always, I guarantee I would beat Contador in any test of leg strength you can contrive. It won't stop him thrashing me to the top of any hill though.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Froomes Edgar wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Froomes Edgar wrote:
    Roll your eyes all you like - you're wrong, I'm right. You will not increase your strength by being in a slightly higher gear.

    As a method to strengthen muscles it has been used for decades. Now, I know that all was done in the past was rubbish and only high cadence low gear works, but this method has won many champions many races, so there is not much to laugh about... :wink:

    They didn't win races because their legs were stronger. They won because they were fitter.

    As always, I guarantee I would beat Contador in any test of leg strength you can contrive. It won't stop him thrashing me to the top of any hill though.

    You are wrong, even Contador does his reps with big gears in winter... you need them to develop sprint and acceleration... without these you can't win a race. You need to improve the aerobic threshold but also work on the anaerobic side...

    FFS, just look at a decent training program from any cycling coach, there is "agility work" and there is "strength work"
    left the forum March 2023
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    I wonder if your knowledge of wheelbuilding is as poor as your knowledge of training?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Sorry, at my age I have given up virtual confrontations with people I don't know. Let's leave it like this... :(
    left the forum March 2023
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    FFS, just look at a decent training program from any cycling coach, there is "agility work" and there is "strength work"

    No there isn't. Not in the ones I've seen anyway. Any decent road coach would probably tell you that beyond certain (basic) levels, strength counts for very little. Aerobic fitness and sustainable power is what gets riders up hills.
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    Roll your eyes all you like - you're wrong, I'm right. You will not increase your strength by being in a slightly higher gear

    Say I'm in the gym doing some bench presses. I can do two things. Train to lift heavier weights or train to lift the same weight for more reps. Most reasonable people would say I'm getting stronger in both examples. If I'm able to turn the pedals for more revs in a high gear then, like the second example above, as far as I'm concerned I'm getting stronger.

    Like you I'm sure Andre Greipel has stronger legs than Contador and like you can't beat Contador up a hill. He can certainly beat him in a sprint though. Seems strength has its uses.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    twotyred wrote:
    Say I'm in the gym doing some bench presses. I can do two things. Train to lift heavier weights or train to lift the same weight for more reps. Most reasonable people would say I'm getting stronger in both examples. If I'm able to turn the pedals for more revs in a high gear then, like the second example above, as far as I'm concerned I'm getting stronger.

    Nobody is arguing that pushing weights in the gym will not give you stronger legs - of course it will. The question is whether you actually need 'stronger' legs to be a better cyclist. The current weight of evidence is that you do not.
    twotyred wrote:
    Like you I'm sure Andre Greipel has stronger legs than Contador and like you can't beat Contador up a hill. He can certainly beat him in a sprint though. Seems strength has its uses.

    Greipel almost certainly has stronger legs than Contador - and he also has a higher maximum power. Guess which one wins him the sprints. ?
  • redpat1
    redpat1 Posts: 54
    Steady on fellas, I just wanted to know if it was beneficial to use my SS for short intense blasts when I have little time. Being new to the performance cycling aspect of cycling I am none the wiser. I am sure you all make valid points with your varying experiences and riding styles.
    God, is this forum always so full of testosterone (not literally) on every question asked? I come from an MMA background where the guys tend to be a lot more chilled and accept each others POV. I guess they have little to prove to anybody else !
    Thanks anyway
    Pat
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    Greipel almost certainly has stronger legs than Contador - and he also has a higher maximum power. Guess which one wins him the sprints. ?

    Power = force x cadence

    Guess where he gets his force from
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    God, is this forum always so full of testosterone (not literally) on every question asked?

    Sorry mate Mr FE brings out the worst in me.....and breathe.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    twotyred wrote:

    Power = force x cadence

    Guess where he gets his force from

    He gets his force from the same place as everyone else - by training his aerobic and anaerobic capacities - or are you suggesting that Greipel applies a force on the pedals greater than his own bodyweight with each revolution ?

    Seriously - have you not ever read any of the 'strength' threads on here ? You should have a look...
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    For those who are lacking in their Bike Radar physics understanding, Strength + Power = Heat. I suspect the resultant heat from a previous reaction was enough to cremate P_Tucker, but I believe in reincarnation.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    or are you suggesting that Greipel applies a force on the pedals greater than his own bodyweight with each revolution ?

    er yes I am.

    Go here http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesPower_Page.html

    Now plug in 85kg of rider and bike traveling at 60kph (16.5 m/s) 100rpm cadence with a 175mm crank gives 1622.1 kg m/s2 or 1622 N effective pedal force in each leg.

    1622N/9.81m/s/s= 165kg

    Now unless Greipel is considerably heavier than he looks he's applying more force than gravity acting on his body weight. And why wouldn't he as he's trying to accelerate his body forwards not just hold it up against gravity.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Yawn. Not sure I can be bothered with this. His power doesn't actually win him races - his ability to sustain his power longer than his competitors is what wins him races. Either way, it is not a strength issue.
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    Yawn

    Sorry if the physics proving you wrong bores you.

    Well Wiggo can sustain 450 watts for an hour but that doesn't win him any sprints.

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